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Thread: Interesting Theory Based only on rumors and speculation. Pettine V Farmer

  1. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    The team already has a president... in fact, there are by my count/guestimate seven superior executives that Farmer/Pettine could be 'reporting' to...

    http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/front-office.html

    However, I get it, there is no one higher up then Farmer on the "Player Personnel" chart but just to show the team has an ass-load of executives (maybe that's the problem, office space syndrome...). IMO, Demoting Farmer/imposing some kind of babysitter upon the HC too is not the answer.

    Then again, who is worth hiring? Holmgren was ideal for that set up, and maybe it would have worked. Shit is so stinky right now MIKE HOLMGREN seems alright.

    Fucking kick me in the nuts.
    I would be fine with Haslam bringing back Holmgren. I bet Holmgren would have a coach here who would find out if our young players can play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaid_Up View Post
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    Manziel isn't starting. That's the point of this thread.

    Yeah, I'm salty
    Yep, that is the real point of this whole exercise, isn't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    The first guy that needs to go is Scheiner. After he is gone, see how much things improve. If they don't, goodbye Farmer, which also likely means goodbye Pettine.
    What do you have against Scheiner? And what does he have to do with the product on the field?

    Anyway, what does Wi-Fi in the stadium have to do with anything I care about?

    What I want is a team that is fun to root for. It is frustrating to try to root for the highest priced defense in the league that is also the lowest rated--or an over-the-hill quarterback who is a loser. Some people will insist that winning in a boring fashion is better than just being exciting, and I can't argue with that because winning leads to excitement. But I haven't see much winning around here lately of either variety. Personally, if given a choice, I would prefer an exciting winner. But given the choice between a boring loser and an exciting loser with a chance of eventually becoming a winner, I will take the latter any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
    Last edited by Brownsfan; 11-02-2015 at 11:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    That's a lot of people producing a VERY Bad product.
    Always remember sports are like women:
    High School all the girls play,
    NCAA only good looking girls play,
    Pro's only the Super Models play !

    the most important reading you might ever do.
    http://fredsitelive.com/books/religion/genescott.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    In that case, I will tell you what I think (as if anybody will care)

    I think that there is significant disconnect here. When the team signals that it is ready to trade a number of their veterans including a future HOFer, it is an indication that at the top level, they want to play for the future.

    This is not consistent with Pettine's insistence that the future is now.

    I think Haslam and Farmer are getting ready to unload Pettine.

    But I could be wrong.
    I am on the keep Farmer and unload Pettine train. The fact is if Farmer goes Pettine will go and the fans of "continuity" (defined as we need to continue losing because it will somehow be better than winning) will hate that. Farmer will be the "continuity" poster boy while we get a coach who can....coach. What a concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brutalfacts View Post
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    defined as we need to continue losing because it will somehow be better than winning
    Don't be a fucking douche. No one's put it that way or even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    I would be fine with Haslam bringing back Holmgren. I bet Holmgren would have a coach here who would find out if our young players can play.
    Noooooooo! Holmgren was a disaster here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Don't be a fucking douche. No one's put it that way or even close.
    Struck a nerve?

    It's a chicken and egg argument. I believe success breeds continuity, and rather skeptical that continuity breeds success.

    Our current head coach is 2-11 in his last 13. Our current starting QB is 2-17 in his last 19 starts. Pretty stark numbers if you ask me. Gonna take bucketloads of that magic "continuity" to fix this and so far can you honestly say that the direction the team is heading in is positive on ANY level? I can't.

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    Yes, continuity is important and it's something this team hasn't had for a long time. You are so correct that you can't keep a regime in control for the sake of continunity! The scheme on defense is bad and all the first round picks and free agents aren't going to fix a bad scheme. They need to start winning or at least show improvement in the next few games. The fans realize it's not going to happen over night. But improvement should from week to week and they have shown regression! This season has been a waste so far.........

  10. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Don't be a fucking douche. No one's put it that way or even close.
    But that is what it means in a "the future is now" context.

    You can't have it both ways. You can't sit the kids and play the aging (greying?) veterans while looking to the future. It don't work that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Noooooooo! Holmgren was a disaster here.
    He was building for the future. How many Pro-Bowlers did we have the year after he was fired and how many of those do we still have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    He was building for the future. How many Pro-Bowlers did we have the year after he was fired and how many of those do we still have?
    How you think so highly of what Holmgren did here is beyond me.

    First, he gave Mangini a year he probably shouldn't have. It was clear from day one he wanted his own guy in there and should have made the move when Lerner hired him.

    Secondly, he hired his nephew Shurmur. Guy had no business being an NFL HC.

    Thirdly, he signed Delhomne, traded for career backup Wallace (sound familiar?), used a second rounder on Colt McCoy, and blew two first round picks on a RB with no vision and a 30 year old rookie QB.

    What Holmgren should have done is came here to be the HC. He says he tried to but Lerner wouldn't let him. I find that hard to believe bc Al Lerner was about as hands off an owner as you could get.

    If you aren't happy with Farmer and Pett then I have no idea how you can say Holmgren had this team going in the right direction. Both regimes are damn near copies of each other in terms of football moves.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    I think the D is on O'Neil and Pett. Those players are not 32nd place players. The right coach would make them a top-10 D with maybe one or two more pieces.

    As far as the conspiracy goes, I dunno.

    I'll admit a) Duke Johnson not being involved on every series is a head scratcher and b) The heisman winner barely seeing garbage time when this regime wanted him is odd.
    Ditto OR, everyone stop with the conspiracy theory. Every coach wants to win. Pettine is just not a good HC. He hired his friends (O'Neil) and a slew of left-over coaches which aren't too good either. Too many special packages on D and O.
    Farmer is probably the worse GM Cleveland has had. Draft picks have been terrible.
    And yes, some of the players suck: we saw how bad Gilbert is at cb. Bowe is slow and can't seperate. Shelton is just OK. Manziel pissed off his rookie year, jury still out on him, Orchard, and Cooper. I think Mingo is being used wrong on defense.
    You have a GM that missed on draft picks and FAs. You have a first year Coach, that is trying to micro-manage too much. You have players that are not motivated and under-achieving. You end up with a crappy team.

  14. #86
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    Unhappy Pettine vs. Farmer

    Nevermind
    Last edited by pl4tinum; 11-03-2015 at 10:18 AM. Reason: eeh

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    Quote Originally Posted by pl4tinum View Post
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    \
    My theory is that Pettine really liked Shanahan and felt like Farmer sabotaged Pettine by pissing off Shanahan and making him quit last off-season so now Pettine is returning the favor and sabotaging Farmer's acquisitions to make him look bad.
    Yup, and egos get involved, who would of thunk? But you must be a conspiracy theorist

  16. #88
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    Going to merge this with PGL's thread.
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  17. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    What do you have against Scheiner? And what does he have to do with the product on the field?
    He has his nose in everything. From drafting players, to schemes, to who's starting and who's not. He has been wresting power, and trying to micro manage and control through-out this new tenure. And he's succeeded.

    Just a guy in a suit who thinks he knows football and is looking over everyones shoulder while reporting to Haslam.

    He's a problem.
    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
    - Paul Brown

  18. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    He has his nose in everything. From drafting players, to schemes, to who's starting and who's not. He has been wresting power, and trying to micro manage and control through-out this new tenure. And he's succeeded.

    Just a guy in a suit who thinks he knows football and is looking over everyones shoulder while reporting to Haslam.

    He's a problem.
    So he's Joe Banner...
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  19. #91
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    Except JOe was on the football side of the operation and Scheiner isnt.

  20. #92
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    He's the team president... he is 'king of the castle' there is no 'side' for him. Unless I misunderstand how Front Office heirarchy works...
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  21. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    How you think so highly of what Holmgren did here is beyond me.

    First, he gave Mangini a year he probably shouldn't have. It was clear from day one he wanted his own guy in there and should have made the move when Lerner hired him.

    Secondly, he hired his nephew Shurmur. Guy had no business being an NFL HC.

    Thirdly, he signed Delhomne, traded for career backup Wallace (sound familiar?), used a second rounder on Colt McCoy, and blew two first round picks on a RB with no vision and a 30 year old rookie QB.

    What Holmgren should have done is came here to be the HC. He says he tried to but Lerner wouldn't let him. I find that hard to believe bc Al Lerner was about as hands off an owner as you could get.

    If you aren't happy with Farmer and Pett then I have no idea how you can say Holmgren had this team going in the right direction. Both regimes are damn near copies of each other in terms of football moves.
    Holmgren wasn't perfect. Giving Mangini another year was not a mistake. But firing him for not winning and then pleading that he was on a five year plan with Shurmur was. He should have told the truth which was that he fired Mangini because Mangini was a lot like Pettine and preferred to lose with vets instead of losing with the kids with a chance of winning later.

    As for hiring his nephew, he hired a guy who would play and develop the rookies that he and Heckert drafted.

    Delhomne was obviously intended as a bridge that didn't work out mainly due to injury. Shit happens.

    I don't know why you would say he should have come here as the HC. He was hired as the President and representive of an absentee owner. How was he supposed to coach the team while filling in for the owner? And how anybody could have won with the crap he inherited is way beyond me. He basically had four upper level players: D'Qwell Jackson, Joe Thomas, Ahtyba Rubin and Alex Mack. Over the next three years, he and Heckert added Joe Haden, T.J. Ward, Tashaun Gipson, Jebaal Sheard, Jordan Cameron, Butster Skrine, Josh Gordon, Travis Benjamin, John Greco, Phil Taylor, Michell Schwartz and Craig Robertson among others. Had he been given a couple more years, he would have brought a winner to this town.

    On the other hand, what did Banner/Lombardi give us? All I can see is the replacement of about half of our good young players with older less talented players for more money. And they would have done more of that if they'd had more time. As for Farmer, I am not really sure just yet, but I have no doubt about Pettine. if we want to grow a winner, Pettine has got to go. Pettine is another Mangini.
    Last edited by Brownsfan; 11-03-2015 at 11:28 AM.

  22. #94
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    I liked Heckert, I just didn't like Holmgren. Holmgren couldn't associate with our struggles here and clearly didn't care about doing his job. The Shurmur hire was just about the worst thing I've ever, EVER seen the Browns do though. It's worse than the Bowe signing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pl4tinum View Post
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    The Shurmur hire was just about the worst thing I've ever, EVER seen the Browns do though. It's worse than the Bowe signing.
    It really was. I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit when Holmgren announced Pat Shurmur as the head coach. In general I thought Holmgren was a doofus who was getting by on the success he had coaching Brett Favre.

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    Heres what has come down from the insiders..

    Scheiner is running things.. he and Haslam..

    They will determine whether Pettine sucks at coaching or if the players are bad and its on Farmer.

    Either way Pettine is probably gone.. because if Farmer is fired, a new GM means a new coach.. and if its on Pettine.. Farmer stays and gets a shot at a new coach.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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