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Thread: Interesting Theory Based only on rumors and speculation. Pettine V Farmer

  1. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Heres what has come down from the insiders..

    Scheiner is running things.. he and Haslam..

    They will determine whether Pettine sucks at coaching or if the players are bad and its on Farmer.

    Either way Pettine is probably gone.. because if Farmer is fired, a new GM means a new coach.. and if its on Pettine.. Farmer stays and gets a shot at a new coach.
    I don't know if this is a bad thing. Yeah I know that the fans think the Browns are supposed to be a non profit run for their own enjoyment, controlled by football people who do the stuff they want. At it's core this is a business, and given that the "football people" have sucked at football people stuff for over 15 years maybe it's time that the decisions center on the business side. I have seen this compared to Banner, but Banner was a football guy dabbling on the business side and pretty much disliked by everyone in the game.

    My money is in Pettine shoved out the door, Farmer stays and a splashy new coaching hire. Money will not be an issue, the team is worth 500 million more then when Haslem bought it, really the only way to further enhance value is success. My back up guess is both are gone and splashy new "Director of Football Operations" is hired followed by a splashy coaching hire. Either way I am good with it for now.

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    If we did something crazy like fire pettin and hire Sumlin.. I could see half the fan base melting down
    Last edited by PlaygroundLegend; 11-03-2015 at 02:20 PM.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Scheiner is a Georgetown grad, and a double Hoya at that (undergrad & law). #TeamScheiner

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    If we did something crazy lie fire pettin and hire Sumlin.. I could see half the fan base melting down
    No college coaches please!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    No college coaches please!
    I'll tell you right now to be prepared. If Jimmeh decides to blow it up you'll have your pick of college coaches and guys named Schiano.

    Whisenhunt got fired today so I would bet $ he'll show up on the candidate list.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

  6. #102
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    I have to agree...

    IF we fire Pettine, I'd like to hire a coach with some NFL experience preferably on the offensive side of the ball.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    I'll tell you right now to be prepared. If Jimmeh decides to blow it up you'll have your pick of college coaches and guys named Schiano.

    Whisenhunt got fired today so I would bet $ he'll show up on the candidate list.
    Not if Crow and I have anything to say about it, third propaganda campaign will be a go! :P
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    I have to agree...

    IF we fire Pettine, I'd like to hire a coach with some NFL experience preferably on the offensive side of the ball.
    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    Whisenhunt got fired today so I would bet $ he'll show up on the candidate list.
    Well, those two things go together for better or for worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brutalfacts View Post
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    Struck a nerve?

    It's a chicken and egg argument. I believe success breeds continuity, and rather skeptical that continuity breeds success.

    Our current head coach is 2-11 in his last 13. Our current starting QB is 2-17 in his last 19 starts. Pretty stark numbers if you ask me. Gonna take bucketloads of that magic "continuity" to fix this and so far can you honestly say that the direction the team is heading in is positive on ANY level? I can't.
    No nerve struck, I just hate when people insult other's by castigating options they've attributed NOT those that have been articulated.

    You know that. Carry on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    But that is what it means in a "the future is now" context.

    You can't have it both ways. You can't sit the kids and play the aging (greying?) veterans while looking to the future. It don't work that way.
    Cliff you keep saying the kids arent' playing. They are playing. All of them except Manziel and Gilbert.

    I bet our young guys are playing at similar rates/levels as the other franchises. You've made the assertion that they aren't, so my ask would be to prove it. Provide something quantitative for us.

  11. #107
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    Wisenhunt is a loser, period.

    Failed tenures in Arizona and Tennessee... We don't need Cleveland to be strike three.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

  12. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    I'll tell you right now to be prepared. If Jimmeh decides to blow it up you'll have your pick of college coaches and guys named Schiano.

    Whisenhunt got fired today so I would bet $ he'll show up on the candidate list.
    Haslam IS the MAIN PROBLEM! You need to go to the root cause of this mess and he is it!

  13. #109
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    I'd really like to see the stats on "playing the young guys" from our prior regimes. I honestly don't have a strong sense of it either way. Meaning, I don't have a clear memory of Pat Shurmur investing in younger players more or less than Mangini, Chud, Pettine, or any of the other previous head coaches.

    The Shurmur thing is a joke anyway as I've never seen a head coach look and act so utterly unprepared for the moment. It seems clear he was flat out overwhelmed by the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Haslam IS the MAIN PROBLEM! You need to go to the root cause of this mess and he is it!
    He may be, though I do feel he truly wants to win. He already had money before he bought the team. He didn't buy a sports team, especially an NFL team like the Browns, just to make more money.

    Like I said before I feel the best thing for him to do if he fires everyone is to bring in a legit head of football operations. A guy who's actually had success in the role. Like Parcells or Polian for example.
    Last edited by next2nothing; 11-03-2015 at 01:39 PM.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

  15. #111
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    Youth was all Shurmur had, we were the youngest team in the league during his tenure here... the maybe only argument that could be made to defend him. This incudes the 30-year old rookie QB who got decent PT under Shurmur.

    Mangini avoided young players like the plague.

    Chud, eh, he barely got a sample lol, and again, saddled with Weeden.

    Bottom line though, its a matter of 'the best players play' and arguments can be made that they are...
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    He may be, though I do feel he truly wants to win. He already had money before he bought the team. He didn't buy a sports team, especially an NFL team like the Browns, just to make more money.

    Like I said before I feel the best thing for him to do if he fires everyone is to bring in a legit head of football operations. A guy who's actually had success in the role. Like Parcells or Polian for example.
    Absolutely! Or at least bring in advisor or two to consult -- the PROBLEM is we never get it right with the hiring of the GM. I want a guy with a track record of good talent selection in the draft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    He may be, though I do feel he truly wants to win. He already had money before he bought the team. He didn't buy a sports team, especially an NFL team like the Browns, just to make more money.

    Like I said before I feel the best thing for him to do if he fires everyone is to bring in a legit head of football operations. A guy who's actually had success in the role. Like Parcells or Polian for example.
    Though I want to hope the owner is motivated to win, don't kid yourself too much. The goal of every single NFL owner is to make $$$$
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

  18. #114
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    I liked Chud the best to be honest.. I love the coryell offense, and I love the 1 gap 3-4

    We had the right schemes...

    We just didnt have a RB

    Chud was forced to run the ball with willis mcgehee in a wheelchair

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  19. #115
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    Wasn't McGahee a midseason acquisition at that?

    Uuuuggh...
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

  20. #116
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    Pete Smith just dropped an awesome revealing article...

    http://nflspinzone.com/2015/11/05/cl...ted-jim-oneil/

    Its all about how everything goes back to Jim O'Neil

    I guess its not Mike Pettine refusing to play players that are better due to a feud with Farmer... Its O'Neil in a power struggle with position coaches wanting to assert his dominance and be proven right instead of doing whats best for the team.

    Heres some quotes:


    Defensive players for the Cleveland Browns are frustrated and confused. When asked what the problem is, to a man, the answer that comes back is a name. Jim O’Neil. The picture being painted is one where players are not sure what needs to happen on a given play, calls are late or not communicated at all, and at times, player usage is being dictated with ego in mind rather than the best interest of the team.

    On the field, position coaches are trying to rotate players that would be far more in line for what critics, both educated and amateur, would expect and think far more logical, only to be overruled by O’Neil. Not only is this a source of frustration for some of the players who know their position coaches believe in them and firmly believe they are better than the guys going in for them.

    The competition has players feeling like they can earn their way on the field. Reps are not simply handed out but guys can see their hard work rewarded.

    All of this is great until the feeling is O’Neil is not held accountable for his mistakes. Nothing he is doing is out of the purview of his job and if were working, he would be ‘thinking outside the box’ and have a great feel for the game. Unfortunately, the results are ineffective at best and incompetent at worst. And if they were in the best interest of the team, they would be understandable growing pains. for a young coordinator. Too often, they aren’t.

    This reflects badly on Pettine because he has not been willing to step in and overrule O’Neil in these situations to this point....

    Behind closed doors, players are a little baffled in how O’Neil talks to and about players. O’Neil is loyal to the point of borderline obsessed with his stars, basically suggesting the team cannot compete without them.

    Theres some damning stuff in there.

    Pete got a good scoop there.
    Last edited by PlaygroundLegend; 11-05-2015 at 09:24 AM.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Pete Smith just dropped an awesome revealing article...

    http://nflspinzone.com/2015/11/05/cl...ted-jim-oneil/

    Its all about how everything goes back to Jim O'Neil

    I guess its not Mike Pettine refusing to play players that are better due to a feud with Farmer... Its O'Neil in a power struggle with position coaches wanting to assert his dominance and be proven right instead of doing whats best for the team.

    Heres some quotes:










    Theres some damning stuff in there.

    Pete got a good scoop there.
    O'Neil is the worst defensive coordinator in Browns history, taking a decent group of players and the result is 1+1 = -20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Its all about how everything goes back to Jim O'Neil

    I guess its not Mike Pettine refusing to play players that are better due to a feud with Farmer... Its O'Neil in a power struggle with position coaches wanting to assert his dominance and be proven right instead of doing whats best for the team.
    Yeah, I would have expected stuff like this. This is also why Gilbert can't get on the field. But isn't O'Neil Pett's buddy or so? That would then be on Pett as well, as I expect it is really a microcosm of what the Pett coaching experience is like for players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legerdemain View Post
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    This is also why Gilbert can't get on the field.
    I'd bet you a year's salary this has nothing to do with why Gilbert can't get on the field. Gilbert can't get on the field because he can't demonstrate enough understanding of his responsibilities to unseat the uber-LESS physically talented Johnson Bademosi.

    Even if O'Niel ends up being a completely incompetent coach, that still wouldn't explain Gilbert.

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    From the NFL.com article linked in another thread. This sure doesn't sound like a HC who would have told his GM, "Don't waste resources on skill positions":

    "There are very few quarterbacks in this league -- in the history of this league -- where, no matter who you put around them, they'll be successful. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees. There's a handful. That next tier of quarterbacks will be very supporting cast-dependent."

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