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Thread: Continuity - The one thing the Browns HAVEN'T tried!!!

  1. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgsDefense View Post
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    there is NOOO WAY shit dont blow up.

    I can somewhat see Farmer staying and getting another draft and FA to do it HIS WAY on his own...and draft his own coach.

    Oneil....the defense.....and Pettine not playing young guys(duke johnson after having 2 catches for 70 yards in first half) not putting Manziel in for Mccown when visibily hurt and cost game. Loss to Oakland after team was SKKYYYYY high from Manziel. That game is most energy team has had BYYYYY FARRRRRR. The energy and excitement Manziel brings when he does HIS THING is not matched on this team....and never has.

    Campbell looks better then whitner
    Poyer has played lights out.
    whole front 7 except armonty bryant and dansby have looked like they dont know what to do....and cant make a play. The scheme is not working for our guys. Coaches do not make halftime adjustments, We are worst 2nd half team in NFL. Only manziel and him not listening to pettine got us touchdown late to seal it.

    Farmer being suspended. All the drama...


    PETTINE HAS TO BE FIRED.....BECAUSE THE TEAM DOESNT BELIEVE AT ALL THAT HE IS GOING TO LEAD THEM TO PLAYOFF WINS. Mike Pettine will never win playoff game as HC anywhere.




    urban meyer as coach and GM( or keep farmer and urban says goes or farmer does)

    gruden or cowher but that aint happening.

    Kevin Sumlin or promote Flip.

    if we cant get urban meyer im all for Flip being promoted. Id have oconnell be the OC if Mccown still on team. Mccown could be be QB coach.

    We need Defensive Coordinator that can blitz, and have our guys playing like they can. We need to have a pass rush, we need a spread hurry up wide open offense and run inside draws....powers....reverses, let manziel run.

    id let farmer draft and run the roster completely for a year, but bowe and desmond bryant have to be cut off the rip. Whitner, Kruger, Mack, and Haden need traded.

    HADEN IS BEING INVESTIGATED BY FBI AND HE PLAYING WORSE THEN GILBERT. HE MAY BE GOING TO PRISON.




    WHATEVER COACH COMES HERE.....THE PLAYERS HAVE TO LIKE..... AND WANT TO PLAY FOR. HE HAS TO KNOW HOW TO ADAPT HIS SCHEMES TO OUR ROSTER.... BC WE HAVE NOT HAD SCHEMES THAT WORKED FOR THIS TEAM LAST 2 YEARS EXCEPT OFFENSE.

    WE NEED TO BE DISCIPLINED. THATS WHY IM ALL FOR MACK AND THOMAS TO GO.... FALSE STARTS ON 3RD DOWN..... NO RUNNING HOLES.... WASTE OF $$$

    Why the fuck should you care?.. your from Texas and are a ball washing Johnny fag.. EE.. get rid of this nincompoop...
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



    Its Offense baby!!!!!" "ITS
    OFFENSE!!!!!

  2. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangelo930 View Post
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    I'll back you up DawgFan. I completely agree with you. This team sorely needs to keep this front office in place. And the argument about this front office not showing any signs of competence is just flat out wrong. I know we're conditioned to only look at the record to judge everything, but let's try to look beyond that a bit. This team has been competitive in all but one game this season. We are seeing improvement, even if the record doesn't reflect it yet. But it will, in time. It might not be this year, but it will happen if we stay the course. I know losing is frustrating. We're fans, we're supposed to overreact and be passionate and talk about controversies and conspiracies and all that shit. But Jimmy Haslam has to keep his head on straight, not make an emotional, knee jerk reaction to try and quell the fire of anger permeating from the fanbase right now. I've seen the reset button hit too early enough times now to know it's the wrong thing to do. How many times do we have to run head first into a brick wall before we decide to try another path? Firing the front office is the wrong thing to do. I truly believe that.
    This team is NOT getting better. Did you notice the absolute physical BEATDOWN the Rams and Cards administered in back to back weeks? Cards can turn the ball over 4 times, spot the Browns a 13 point lead and at no time could you watch that game and say to yourself Cleveland is in control of this game.

    That said I am inboard with keeping the front office. The head coach needs to be dispatched as soon as a viable interim option is available and he can take his DC with him. We could run base "vanilla" defenses and give up fewer big plays than this outfit's schemes allow.

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    Lane essentially said that O'neil is Pettines ship and Pettine has no issue going down with him.

    Kiley on Kiley and Carman this morning (which I called in to today) said something interesting..


    Dont ever hire someone you aren't prepared to fire.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    No matter who the had coach the past 15 years, this team has always been unable to stop teams at the end of the first half and late in the 4th quarter. It's called lack of talent and an inability of the offenses to sustain drives, and as a result the defense is on the field too long and wears down. Just look at the Browns second half on Sunday. Three and out. Three and out. Three and out in the second half.
    Do you think that maybe the reason we haven't been able to put together a team that can close out games and build a winning culture is because we change the front office and scheme and culture every two years? Thanks for pointing out the obvious. This team has been bad for a long time. This team is bad right now. If you keep doing what you've always done, you will get what you've always gotten. This team is living, breathing proof of that, and to suggest that your "solution" to fix this thing is to do the same thing again is insane to me.

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    My personal opinion is that when you find guys worth 'continuing' with, that's when you employ continuity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pl4tinum View Post
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    My personal opinion is that when you find guys worth 'continuing' with, that's when you employ continuity.
    I definitely get what you're saying, pl4tinum. But how do we decide that somebody is "worth continuing"? I think that's where my disconnect is with that opinion. I don't believe that two years is a fair enough amount of time to allow a first time head coach to develop and turn a team, especially a team that has the poor culture and losing history of the Browns, into a perennial winner.

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    Ask yourself...

    Are Pettine and Farmer guys that you would go all-in with?

    Odds are if you can't answer 'yes' right away, without hesistation, the FO is feeling similarly. IMO, it is a mistake to go 'all in' for the sake of continuity with people you don't believe in.
    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangelo930 View Post
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    I definitely get what you're saying, pl4tinum. But how do we decide that somebody is "worth continuing"? I think that's where my disconnect is with that opinion. I don't believe that two years is a fair enough amount of time to allow a first time head coach to develop and turn a team, especially a team that has the poor culture and losing history of the Browns, into a perennial winner.
    I think Pettine has done well with the talent he's been given by our hack of a GM, that's where I sit on the issue. An offense without playmakers, a defense with aging veterans, it's not pretty and the results showcase that this year. Pettine was here before Farmer, IMO, he should be here after him too. I am skeptical it will play out that way though. Plus, if we do get a new GM then he may eventually want his own coach. Farmer was an inside promotion, so I see it as a bit different.
    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Ask yourself...

    Are Pettine and Farmer guys that you would go all-in with?

    Odds are if you can't answer 'yes' right away, without hesistation, the FO is feeling similarly. IMO, it is a mistake to go 'all in' for the sake of continuity with people you don't believe in.
    I understand this line of thinking EE, I really do. Several people share this opinion. My question is what makes you comfortable with keeping a front office? Is it being a winner immediately? Or is it seeing signs of progress? I would argue we ARE seeing signs of progress with this front office, even if the record doesn't reflect it yet. I think people just want the quick fix that doesn't exist, or is insanely rare.

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    There's a great irony this season in that so many of us preached that 'this season would be difficult' and 'we are going to have regression' yet here it is and people (myself included) still freak out. However I think there are worrying signs, anonymous rants, Textgate still sticks out like an ugly thumb to me. I do think that people are just trying to find something to justify their frustration but overall, I find comfort in seeing vision. When I look at Ray Farmer's draft picks, I see no vision. When I look at who we have targeted in free agency, I scratch my head... When I see Pettine's product on the field, I see an offense that's moderately improved from last year (with an inexperienced OC at that) but a defense that has regressed horribly to the point of allowing what, near 400 yards ON AVERAGE a game? I think there is ample room for doubt.
    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  11. #35
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    The whole textgate thing really wasnt ray though.

    I mean yes, he did it, and yes.. his opinion was in those texts..


    But the dude was sitting right next to Haslam... are you telling me the Johnny lovin Jimmy didnt say "RAY!! Tell those boys to put our guy in!!!"

    Thats why Ray got a slap on the wrist, he took the fall for Jimmy

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  12. #36
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    I want to believe that, and it may be true, but we have opposing bias PGL lol.

    Ah well in the end, it could be worse...

    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    The whole textgate thing really wasnt ray though.

    I mean yes, he did it, and yes.. his opinion was in those texts..


    But the dude was sitting right next to Haslam... are you telling me the Johnny lovin Jimmy didnt say "RAY!! Tell those boys to put our guy in!!!"

    Thats why Ray got a slap on the wrist, he took the fall for Jimmy
    Agreed. This is the reason I think Farmer stays, he really does know where the bodies are buried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geech View Post
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    The other side of the continuity coin is that the continuity of losing will yield more losing.

    How do you go from 7-9 to what's shaping up to be 4-12? Brian Hoyer? I don't know, but if Chud was fired because his team didn't show improvement in one season, what does regression from year to year do for you? Most people were happy to see the team "improve" to 7 wins in 2014, but why the regression in 2015? Don't tell me injuries, because that's part of the game that every team has to deal with. Losing your Franchise QB to injury is one thing, but most of the rest can be overcome.

    I just look at the team philosophy. Like, not setting the edge. Or having 2 offseasons to build a team to execute the coach's philosophy of "run the ball, and stop the run" but end up nearly dead last in both. How about 3 first round picks in the last 2 years contributing absolutely nothing to the team? When things get THIS ugly, it's not as easy as just sticking with it for the sake of continuity. You want the continuity of more first rounders riding the pine and more dead last rankings? Really? Is that what you want?

    There's a whole bunch of shoulda-coulda-wouldas here. Like shoulda-coulda-woulda had Jack Del Rio and Derek Carr, for one example, but instead have shit and shit. I know hindsight is 20-20 (50-50 if you ask Cam Newton), but if it's all a crapshoot and you roll snake-eyes, then it's time to roll again. If I'm Haslam, I'm asking some really tough questions, and demanding some real tough answers.

    -Al
    I laughed my ass off again when reminded of that "hindsight is 50-50" quote from Cam, but then I thought, you know what, he's right. Hindsight truly is 50-50 and only slightly more reliable than foresight. If you don't believe it, just consider that this forum is split down the middle on the past.

    If I never take anything else of value from this forum, I can boast of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    There's a great irony this season in that so many of us preached that 'this season would be difficult' and 'we are going to have regression' yet here it is and people (myself included) still freak out. However I think there are worrying signs, anonymous rants, Textgate still sticks out like an ugly thumb to me. I do think that people are just trying to find something to justify their frustration but overall, I find comfort in seeing vision. When I look at Ray Farmer's draft picks, I see no vision. When I look at who we have targeted in free agency, I scratch my head... When I see Pettine's product on the field, I see an offense that's moderately improved from last year (with an inexperienced OC at that) but a defense that has regressed horribly to the point of allowing what, near 400 yards ON AVERAGE a game? I think there is ample room for doubt.
    As Geech noted, continuity with a head coach 2-11 in his last 13 games and a GM who is the butt of national jokes for textgate, his draft failures and ridiculous positions on wide receivers, is not the answer.

    Try again.

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    tl;dr but I assume this is suggesting we hold on to the coaching staff for at least 3 years. I have no problem with this and feel like it's probably the best play. At the same time Pettine won't be taking us to the promise land, ever. He's a subaverage coach but the pros outweigh the cons in at least keeping him around for a 3rd year.

    Gm needs to go asap though

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    The whole textgate thing really wasnt ray though.

    I mean yes, he did it, and yes.. his opinion was in those texts..


    But the dude was sitting right next to Haslam... are you telling me the Johnny lovin Jimmy didnt say "RAY!! Tell those boys to put our guy in!!!"

    Thats why Ray got a slap on the wrist, he took the fall for Jimmy
    Ray is incompetent and a , Im fine with people wanting to keep Pet around (even if he's shown very little) but Farmer cant be making decision for this franchise any longer.

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    Probably why Scheiner is power playing (IF Grossi is to be believed...).
    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  19. #43
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    I would love Ray gone. It would make my day. Fuck, my year. His drafting and free agency signings speak for themselves. His desire to sell off Browns players, right at the fucking deadline and before a game, speaks for itself. His refusal to back down from stubborn positions speaks for itself. Textgate speaks for itself. The fact I'd like to punch him many, many times speaks for itself - Shit, I didn't even want to punch Lombardi and Banner.

    Pettine, dude needs to stay. Our defense outright sucks. We've got no pass rushers who are remotely close to a Pro-Bowl level. We've got no defensive ends who could be considered to 30 at the position. Our inside linebackers are built for coverage and chewing up blocks, not handling run stopping responsibilities all on their own.

    The offense is fine. The passing game has been great. The rushing game is struggling with blocking, but the O-Line coach went all alcoholic and got fired, and Flip is only in his first year - he'll make adjustments and we'll be fine.

    If we just added some respectable players in the trenches on defense, this team is totally different and boasts as much more impressive record. It would be nice to go get a GM who can actually get the players that our coach needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Browns next QB View Post
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    Ray is incompetent and a , Im fine with people wanting to keep Pet around (even if he's shown very little) but Farmer cant be making decision for this franchise any longer.
    Farmer's press conference today had the media head scratching. Here are some excerpts: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...otes_from.html

    It's beyond my comprehension that inept, unqualified people like Farmer and Lombardi get hired to big jobs in the NFL. I'm still shaking my head about Lombardi's Leon McFadden and Barky Mingo picks.

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    I really don't get it.

    Pettines disengaged tone and apathy frustrate me more than Farmers high horse.

    At least Farmer has confidence and waves it around.

    I guess it's just all personal preference.

    Farmer reminds me of someone I could have a reasonable debate with and have fun going tit for tat back n forth with.. mutual reapect.

    Pettine reminds me of an asshole high school teacher who truest to "teach you a lesson."


    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    I admire your conviction PGL. I will say that much. I don't think we've ever disagreed more on a topic. Pettine does strike me like your metaphor though I wonder if it's because he was a HS coach lol
    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


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    I still believe Farmers' seat is Hot after textgate, or whatever the media guru's call it. And to defend the D. Bowe signing, who's done nothing, is child's play. Everyone knows better. Bottom line is this: when Cleveland's media people start suggesting Farmer's on his last leg - to his face - things are past the point of no return. Johnny would virtually need to win out for a Farmer reincarnation in CLE. Not gonna happen in a sandbag year.

  24. #48
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    He didn't defend D-Bowe...

    Farmer actually reiterated exactly what Pettine said.. D Bowe knows where he is at and what he needs to do.

    Although Farmer did throw out that gem..

    The Browns need to put our players in the best position to succeed

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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