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Thread: Continuity - The one thing the Browns HAVEN'T tried!!!

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    Going to add to this thread - I like continuity within the coaching. General manager doesn't phase me much. At the end of the day, a good general manager is looking for a guy who can play in any scheme but is also a force to be reckoned with in the existing scheme. I also think good general managers take input and advice from coaching, helping them find what they're looking for and being open to not only hearing a coach out as to why a player should be (A Cleveland Brown) but also having the intelligence to explain why a player shouldn't and why a different player would be better.

    Continuity starts with coaches. It's easier to find someone to pick the players than it is to find someone who will assemble an entire coaching staff and install a scheme that is going to work. It takes more time to do that than it does for a general manager to draft well.

    That, and I think Ray Farmer is a joke and a massive piece of shit that makes Bono look humble.

    Looking for new general manager options, I stumbled upon this..

    After a disappointing start to the season, the Miami Dolphins became the first team in the NFL to make a change in a key leadership position with the firing of head coach Joe Philbin. It seems very possible that general manager Dennis Hickey could be the next to go, as the Dolphins are in a situation where they need to clean house. The franchise has been missing a proven winning direction for years, and leadership looks necessary.

    Less than two years ago, Hickey took the Dolphins general manager position after numerous other candidates turned it down. Sources with Tampa Bay had told WalterFootball.com that new Bucs general manager Jason Licht and head coach Lovie Smith were going to let Hickey go, but prior to that, he fell into the Dolphins position.

    Hickey had been leading the Bucs scouting department for a long time, and the lack of talent resulting from his poor drafts played a huge role in the firing of two general managers (Bruce Allen, Mark Dominik) and three head coaches (Jon Gruden, Raheem Morris, Greg Schiano). Now, a fourth can be added to that list with Philbin. Clearly, Miami needs a new direction in the organization, and it should look to a familiar face in Green Bay Packers senior personnel executive Alonzo Highsmith.

    Highsmith was a water boy for the Dolphins during the early 80s. He was close with Don Shula's family and went to high school with Mike Shula. Highsmith was a high school All-American in Miami and starred at the University of Miami before playing for the Oilers, Cowboys and Buccaneers. After his NFL playing days ended, Highsmith was a professional boxer and compiled a 27-1-1 record in his pugilist career.

    Executives from around the league say that Highsmith has one of the best eyes for talent in the NFL and has played a massive role in assembling Green Bay's roster that has yielded a series of playoff appearances and Super Bowl Championship. Not only do they say that he has a great eye for talent, but he works tirelessly, and is especially good at scouting quarterbacks. Highsmith has played with and has been a part of teams with great quarterbacks going back to playing with Shula in high school. He was a teammate of Bernie Kosar and Vinny Testaverde in college at the University of Miami. Highsmith played with Warren Moon and Troy Aikman in the NFL, while being part of Brett Favre's tenure in Green Bay and was part of the Green Bay drafting and developing Aaron Rodgers into the best quarterback in the league.

    Highsmith has learned under some of the best general managers in the NFL over the past 15 years in Ron Wolf and Thompson, so he's ready to lead a franchise in the general manager position. He also learned from coaching greats in Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, Don Shula, and his father Walter Highsmith.

    Highsmith was hired by then Packers Executive Vice President/General Manager Ron Wolf in 1999 to be a college scout for Green Bay. After serving as an area scout for many years, Highsmith was promoted to his current spot in 2012. Working closely with Thompson has given Highsmith a perfect position to prepare for running a franchise.

    Sources say that Highsmith has a tremendous work ethic from his time as a player, professional boxer and area scout. Given his background, he works very well with NFL players and is able to identify with them. With his personal and organizational leadership skills, he can get a franchise working in one direction from the front office into the locker room. That is a huge necessity for the Dolphins franchise that has lacked structure and leadership. Everything he does at Green Bay is about winning as an organization, and sources believe he will build that kind of atmosphere for any team that hires him as their general manager.

    Last offseason, the Redskins tried to hire Highsmith away, but they were blocked from doing so by Thompson. Highsmith is expected to be a candidate for other general manager openings, so if the Dolphins want to land Highsmith, they should move quickly to steal a top executive from one of the most successful franchises in the league. Bringing Highsmith back home to Miami would be the first step to resurrecting the once-proud franchise.
    This is a piece by Charlie Campbell, of Walter Football, talking about Miami bringing in Alonzo Highsmith, who is the senior personnel executive in Green Bay, to be their general manager. Highsmith was on my radar because Green Bay is doing a wonderful job of building talent. It's not that long ago their offense was empty except for Rodgers, and their defense was falling off badly. Reading some of the stuff in this, I think the guy might actually have a lot - and how cool that he's a former team mate of Kosar! He might actually give that lovable motherfucker a job (Just not a really important one. Love you Bernie, but no.)

    There are a lot of interesting GM opportunities coming up, so Farmer can fuck right off while we find someone who isn't a total dropkick.

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    I'm hanging this on coaching and not our lack of talent. We have talent.
    Barnidge is elite. McCown is playing like a QB we've *NEVER* had on our roster. Duke Johnson is a mother fucking stud. Our O-line is top 3 in the league. Crowell shows promise when not doing his best Mark Sanchez impression. Rabbit has some of the best hands in the game, and runs tremendous routes. Oh and he's fast as hell too. Just gets bodied way too much. My only knock on McCown is that he stares down receivers too much and sometimes makes poor (late) decisions because of it (think taking sacks & late throws).

    Desir & Tramon are damn good corners and have played a hell of a lot better than our "pro-bowl" sneaker connoisseur. Gipson is a damn good safety & a ball hawk. Playing through an injury he still stands out on the field. Barkevious Mingo is the most gifted athlete we have on our defense - but he's playing the wrong position. He excels in coverage & open field tackling. But lets keep bodying him up with guys that have 100lbs on him. Danny Shelton is going to be good. He's at a position with one of the steepest curves, give him a full year and he'll be special. The Brothers Bryant are very talented pass rushers. When both guys are on the field at the same time - one of them makes a play. Paul Kruger is a washed up choad. No way he should see the field in front of those two, but here we are. Dansby is good, but aging. I think we could use another ILB addition and see Kirskey thrive more as a SAM. We'll see improvement at LB with improvement to the DL (coaching/time/experience).

    O'Neil is a disgrace. As is Pettine. Get rid of both of them. I'd like to see Flip stay. I think our offensive woes come from Petting micromanaging the playcalling. Trying that bullshit power run game once we get a lead. Or when we get a turnover in the opponents red zone. Go for the fucking throat you dicks.
    RIP 'spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy Fan View Post
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    I'm hanging this on coaching and not our lack of talent. We have talent.
    Barnidge is elite. McCown is playing like a QB we've *NEVER* had on our roster. Duke Johnson is a mother fucking stud. Our O-line is top 3 in the league. Crowell shows promise when not doing his best Mark Sanchez impression. Rabbit has some of the best hands in the game, and runs tremendous routes. Oh and he's fast as hell too. Just gets bodied way too much. My only knock on McCown is that he stares down receivers too much and sometimes makes poor (late) decisions because of it (think taking sacks & late throws).

    Desir & Tramon are damn good corners and have played a hell of a lot better than our "pro-bowl" sneaker connoisseur. Gipson is a damn good safety & a ball hawk. Playing through an injury he still stands out on the field. Barkevious Mingo is the most gifted athlete we have on our defense - but he's playing the wrong position. He excels in coverage & open field tackling. But lets keep bodying him up with guys that have 100lbs on him. Danny Shelton is going to be good. He's at a position with one of the steepest curves, give him a full year and he'll be special. The Brothers Bryant are very talented pass rushers. When both guys are on the field at the same time - one of them makes a play. Paul Kruger is a washed up choad. No way he should see the field in front of those two, but here we are. Dansby is good, but aging. I think we could use another ILB addition and see Kirskey thrive more as a SAM. We'll see improvement at LB with improvement to the DL (coaching/time/experience).

    O'Neil is a disgrace. As is Pettine. Get rid of both of them. I'd like to see Flip stay. I think our offensive woes come from Petting micromanaging the playcalling. Trying that bullshit power run game once we get a lead. Or when we get a turnover in the opponents red zone. Go for the fucking throat you dicks.
    I agree with some of this, but Desmond Bryant is overrated and often overpowered. He needs to be replaced by a real man on the DL.

    The LB corps is the biggest problem -- very below average compared to most NFL teams.

    Mingo is a gifted athlete but a wuss as a football player -- just too easily pushed around by everybody. That's why there were no takers for him even for a third round draft pick. If I was a GM, I might consider Mingo for a 6th round pick, that's about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    I agree with some of this, but Desmond Bryant is overrated and often overpowered. He needs to be replaced by a real man on the DL.

    The LB corps is the biggest problem -- very below average compared to most NFL teams.

    Mingo is a gifted athlete but a wuss as a football player -- just too easily pushed around by everybody. That's why there were no takers for him even for a third round draft pick. If I was a GM, I might consider Mingo for a 6th round pick, that's about it.

    Maybe a "real man" like you could replace him!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy Fan View Post
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    I'm hanging this on coaching and not our lack of talent. We have talent.
    Barnidge is elite. McCown is playing like a QB we've *NEVER* had on our roster. Duke Johnson is a mother fucking stud. Our O-line is top 3 in the league. Crowell shows promise when not doing his best Mark Sanchez impression. Rabbit has some of the best hands in the game, and runs tremendous routes. Oh and he's fast as hell too. Just gets bodied way too much. My only knock on McCown is that he stares down receivers too much and sometimes makes poor (late) decisions because of it (think taking sacks & late throws).

    Desir & Tramon are damn good corners and have played a hell of a lot better than our "pro-bowl" sneaker connoisseur. Gipson is a damn good safety & a ball hawk. Playing through an injury he still stands out on the field. Barkevious Mingo is the most gifted athlete we have on our defense - but he's playing the wrong position. He excels in coverage & open field tackling. But lets keep bodying him up with guys that have 100lbs on him. Danny Shelton is going to be good. He's at a position with one of the steepest curves, give him a full year and he'll be special. The Brothers Bryant are very talented pass rushers. When both guys are on the field at the same time - one of them makes a play. Paul Kruger is a washed up choad. No way he should see the field in front of those two, but here we are. Dansby is good, but aging. I think we could use another ILB addition and see Kirskey thrive more as a SAM. We'll see improvement at LB with improvement to the DL (coaching/time/experience).
    I think you've greatly, greatly exaggerated our defensive talent.

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    I don't think he has. Great post legacy. I agree 100%

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    Who's the playmaking, stud athlete in our front seven that opposing teams must gameplan for?

    If someone can convince me we even have one, then I'll back off the talent topic.

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    That's my feeling, Grey. We don't have a single player on the line or in the linebacker group who is even remotely close to being a Pro-Bowler. Desmond Bryant being the go-to example is pretty compelling evidence of just how badly we suck.

    I also disagree that Tramon Williams and Pierre Desir are "Damn good" corners. Desir is talented, but he's got a lot of growing to do. Tramon Williams has easily been our worst corner. Dude has been getting burned all year and it's only going to get worse as the months pass given he's already a staggering 32 years old - the decline of a corner is typically sharp and unavoidable, and he's already showing regression. His deep coverage has been miserable, he got his ass kicked against Arizona and he was lucky Palmer overthrew wide open receivers downfield TWICE for sure-fire touchdowns.

    Mingo is also just useless. A gifted athlete, but not a gifted football player. He's probably better equipped to play safety, but that's an extremely difficult transition that would take time and be a long way from a sure thing. It's not just about his athleticism, it's about his instincts and ability. Playing sideline to sideline is very different to what would be asked of him at safety. Personally, I think it would be easier to just draft/sign a talented young safety - which we hopefully have in Campbell, who we'll have to watch closely against Cinci.

    Overall, I think we've got two high level players on defense - Tashaun Gipson and K'Waun Williams. Shelton will be great over the coming years as he grows and develops, but needs help around him for his efforts to really be noticeable. Then we fall to Armonty Bryant, who might grow to be a fantastic compliment to an elite pass rusher. He's certainly flashing ability and is young enough to get better. After that? average or below average, all of them.

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    I've like Desir every time I have seen him play, aside from last week against Arizona. Larry Fitzgerald totally outclassed him.

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    Desir shows promise but he's developing.

    Williams would be fine if he had a legit number one playing opposite him. I'm convinced of it. Problem for us this year? Haden has been a trainwreck and its concerning. Whether its legitimate health issues or something else; the bottom line is he's either not been on the field or when he has he's been horrible. Also the lack of Gibson being on the field has hurt. For me the plan to have a healthy defensive backfield of Haden, Williams, Gibson and Whitner with K'Waun and Desir playing nickle/dime respectively was a good one. It presumed generally good health and the type of play you'd expect from one of the league's top 5 paid corners in Haden. Williams would have had help over the top from Gibson and would have been matched up exclusively with the number two. Just my two cents there.

    A Bryant is a potential talent. Otherwise, our LB corps is average to below average. Kruger hasn't been utilized the right way, but he's never fit the profile as a number one edge rusher. Scott Solomon? Really?

    Bottom line for me: our LB corps needs a serious upgrade and if a stud, potentially elite 3-4 DE is available (Bosa?) you take him. If Haden's done (scary thought, but how can we not consider the possibility) then we're really in a mess considering Gilbert's likely trajectory towards official bust.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy Fan View Post
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    I'm hanging this on coaching andnot our lack of talent. We have talent.
    Barnidge is elite. McCown is playing like a QB we've *NEVER*had on our roster. Duke Johnson is a mother fucking stud. Our O-line is top 3in the league. Crowell shows promise when not doing his best Mark Sanchezimpression. Rabbit has some of the best hands in the game, and runs tremendousroutes. Oh and he's fast as hell too. Just gets bodied way too much. My onlyknock on McCown is that he stares down receivers too much and sometimes makespoor (late) decisions because of it (think taking sacks & late throws).

    Desir & Tramon are damn good corners and have played a hell of a lot betterthan our "pro-bowl" sneaker connoisseur. Gipson is a damn good safety& a ball hawk. Playing through an injury he still stands out on the field.Barkevious Mingo is the most gifted athlete we have on our defense - but he'splaying the wrong position. He excels in coverage & open field tackling.But lets keep bodying him up with guys that have 100lbs on him. Danny Sheltonis going to be good. He's at a position with one of the steepest curves, givehim a full year and he'll be special. The Brothers Bryant are very talentedpass rushers. When both guys are on the field at the same time - one of themmakes a play. Paul Kruger is a washed up choad. No way he should see the fieldin front of those two, but here we are. Dansby is good, but aging. I think wecould use another ILB addition and see Kirskey thrive more as a SAM. We'll seeimprovement at LB with improvement to the DL (coaching/time/experience).

    O'Neil is a disgrace. As is Pettine. Get rid of both of them. I'd like to seeFlip stay. I think our offensive woes come from Petting micromanaging theplaycalling. Trying that bullshit power run game once we get a lead. Or when weget a turnover in the opponents red zone. Go for the fucking throat youdicks.
    We may be the least talented team in the NFL. Barnidge is good, 8 games isn't alarge enough sample size to call him elite. Our run game is below average as isCrowell and Duke is a situational back, he canít carry the full load.


    I wonít argue with you that the coaching has been subpar especiallyon the defensive side of the ball but I canít sit here and pretend this teamhas talent.

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    I'd love to get Bosa. We need to get someone who can rock 'n' roll beside Shelton. It's gotta be either OLB or DE early on, assuming anyone is good enough for the spot.

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    Bdu the argument isn't that we have our front 7 loaded with pro bowlers.

    It's that our front 7 has more "good" players than it ever has since the return.

    No we don't have a watt or matthews. But we have goodnplayers.

    Which we haven't had in a while.

    We're used to having backup quality as starters.

    At least now we have starter quality talent.

    It's progress.

    Not ideal..

    But.progress

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    Name the front seven guys we have that would start for a majority, or even a third of the other teams?

    Having a lot of average guys after having a lot of below average guys isn't good enough. That's my fear: We have a lot of guys we like, are pretty good and/or are still young and might develop. I can't think of a top defense made up of such a group in their front seven. You have to have playmakers, impact players. We don't appear to have any in our front seven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Bdu the argument isn't that we have our front 7 loaded with pro bowlers.

    It's that our front 7 has more "good" players than it ever has since the return.

    No we don't have a watt or matthews. But we have goodnplayers.

    Which we haven't had in a while.

    We're used to having backup quality as starters.

    At least now we have starter quality talent.

    It's progress.

    Not ideal..

    But.progress
    They aren't playing like it. Not sure if it's the players themselves, the bad coaching, or both. I would't give up on young guys like Cooper and Orchard, though. I thought Hughes would be better. I've never been that high on Robertson and Kirksey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Browns next QB View Post
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    We may be the least talented team in the NFL. Barnidge is good, 8 games isn't alarge enough sample size to call him elite. Our run game is below average as isCrowell and Duke is a situational back, he can’t carry the full load.


    I won’t argue with you that the coaching has been subpar especiallyon the defensive side of the ball but I can’t sit here and pretend this teamhas talent.
    I don't think this team is the least talented bunch in the NFL. I think the team has been constructed oddly because it lacks proper balance on both sides of the ball. I think the lack of playmakers at RB and WR, at least, and all the three and outs that result, keeps the defense on the field too long, and they wear down, like last Sunday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Bdu the argument isn't that we have our front 7 loaded with pro bowlers.

    It's that our front 7 has more "good" players than it ever has since the return.

    No we don't have a watt or matthews. But we have goodnplayers.

    Which we haven't had in a while.

    We're used to having backup quality as starters.

    At least now we have starter quality talent.

    It's progress.

    Not ideal..

    But.progress
    I don't even think we're good.

    Mingo - Not good. Good in coverage, average against the run, non-factor pass rushing.
    D. Bryant - Not good. Below average against the run, average pass rushing.
    Shelton - Solid against the run, non-factor pass rushing. (He will improve with time)
    Hughes - non-factor against the run, non-factor pass rushing.
    Kruger - Not good. Bad in coverage, average against the run, non-factor pass rushing.
    Robertson - Not good. Solid against the run, average in coverage, non-factor pass rushing.
    Dansby - Good. Solid against the run, solid in coverage, below average pass rushing.

    Solomon - IR.
    Cooper - Below average against the run, solid pass rushing. (He will improve with time)
    Kirksey - Below average against the run, average in coverage, average pass rushing. (He might improve with time)
    Meder - average against the run, average pass rushing.
    Orchard - below average against the run, non-factor in coverage, below average pass rushing. (He will improve with time)

    There is nobody in this roster that makes me say "WOW!" in any specific area. There is nobody on this roster who would be strongly coveted elsewhere. There is nobody on this roster that is a high level player, much less a Pro-Bowler, and I don't consider any of them players that could not/should not be upgraded.

    They are starter quality in Cleveland, but none of them should be. They've vastly overrated by a lot of fans, and they're going to have to be addressed if we want to get this defense firing.

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    I too am underwhelmed with the quality of our front seven. We have guys who stood out on mediocre teams (D. Bryant, Starks) who together with underwhelming draft picks like Mingo, rookies learning the ropes like Orchard/Shelton and aging veterans has resulted in a very very pedestrian pass-rush. An elite pass-rusher would make those around him look that much better by commanding the attention of blocking schemes of opposing offenses. When is the last time we had a legit threat to get sacks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    I too am underwhelmed with the quality of our front seven. We have guys who stood out on mediocre teams (D. Bryant, Starks) who together with underwhelming draft picks like Mingo, rookies learning the ropes like Orchard/Shelton and aging veterans has resulted in a very very pedestrian pass-rush. An elite pass-rusher would make those around him look that much better by commanding the attention of blocking schemes of opposing offenses. When is the last time we had a legit threat to get sacks?
    I am underwhelmed by our front 7 too, but I think the defensive scheme has something to do with the lack of pass rush. We have guys dropping back into coverage who really should be used for pass rushing. Paul Kruger, for instance, has no business dropping back into coverage. It just doesn't make sense. I don't think that Jim O'Neil has done a good job of fitting his players into his scheme. He is trying to force a scheme on players, rather than utilizing their strengths. That's my observation, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    When is the last time we had a legit threat to get sacks?
    Clay Matthews if we're being honest. Maybe MDP. Even Jamir Miller's 13 sack outburst in '01 came after a seven year career prior where he averaged 4 or so sacks per year. We've been so anemic as a pash rushing team for so long, Kam Wimbly is 8th on our all time list (remember, they didn't keep sack stats back in our glory days) with 26.5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    I don't even think we're good.

    Mingo - Not good. Good in coverage, average against the run, non-factor pass rushing.
    D. Bryant - Not good. Below average against the run, average pass rushing.
    Shelton - Solid against the run, non-factor pass rushing. (He will improve with time)
    Hughes - non-factor against the run, non-factor pass rushing.
    Kruger - Not good. Bad in coverage, average against the run, non-factor pass rushing.
    Robertson - Not good. Solid against the run, average in coverage, non-factor pass rushing.
    Dansby - Good. Solid against the run, solid in coverage, below average pass rushing.

    Solomon - IR.
    Cooper - Below average against the run, solid pass rushing. (He will improve with time)
    Kirksey - Below average against the run, average in coverage, average pass rushing. (He might improve with time)
    Meder - average against the run, average pass rushing.
    Orchard - below average against the run, non-factor in coverage, below average pass rushing. (He will improve with time)

    There is nobody in this roster that makes me say "WOW!" in any specific area. There is nobody on this roster who would be strongly coveted elsewhere. There is nobody on this roster that is a high level player, much less a Pro-Bowler, and I don't consider any of them players that could not/should not be upgraded.

    They are starter quality in Cleveland, but none of them should be. They've vastly overrated by a lot of fans, and they're going to have to be addressed if we want to get this defense firing.
    Im sorry QCT but the post reads as insanity to me.

    Kruger has multiple seasons with double digit sacks. He's good, period. He has a track record of solid play, not his fault he isnt producing, its the system.

    Desomond Bryant- He produces, he constantly pushes lineman back into the pocket, he generates sacks, makes tackles. He;s good. His problems have solely been injury related.

    Both have started on other teams good defenses.

    Shelton is a Rookie 1st round pick. He's learning. He has potential to be great, we cant grade him as good/bad yet. But his potential is GREAT.

    Mingo is GOOD in coverage, and he's been making plays. Id say he's average.

    Dansby just had 2 interceptions the other week. He's the brain of the defense at this stage in his carreer and he's a pro-bowler.

    Kirksey is GREAT in coverage, average against the run, and average in rushing the passer. He's average to good.

    Cooper has shown explosion on the field, just needs to take better angles and learn some more technique, he's a rookie.. gets a pass for now.


    You cant just look at this season and declare players bad.

    I HATE WITH A PASSION

    when people say "This is a what have you done for me lately" league. Because that BS when it comes to player development and performance. There is OTHER factors that have an affect on a players output OUTSIDE of the player themselves.

    I dont understand how so many people come to the logical conclusion that the problem is THE PLAYERS... when many of THE PLAYERS in question have a TRACK RECORD or HAVE SHOWN that they can play well in the past... whereas the COACHING STAFF who HAS NO TRACK RECORD is passed over, this is just me but WHY DO WE ASSUME THAT THE STAFF IS UTILIZING TALENT PROPERLY?

    Wouldnt logic direct us to believe a head coach whos never been a head coach before might suck at his job as opposed to a linebacker or dlineman.. who have done their jobs before and have been successful in the past?

    I get it guys.. I really do. Pettine looks and sounds like he knows what he is doing. He's a cool cucumber. I like the guy, I fell for the pro Pettine movement this spring. However when I really look at what is going on here.. it all leads back to him.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  22. #70
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    Indy just cut the cord with Pep Hamilton when it was clear it was not working. IMO, for Pettine to take some of the heat off of himself, removing O'Neil (whose system is clearly not working) would accomplish a similar task. Is it too much for him to assume defensive responsibilities for this year and hire a new DC in the off-season?
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  23. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Im sorry QCT but the post reads as insanity to me.

    Kruger has multiple seasons with double digit sacks. He's good, period. He has a track record of solid play, not his fault he isnt producing, its the system.

    Desomond Bryant- He produces, he constantly pushes lineman back into the pocket, he generates sacks, makes tackles. He;s good. His problems have solely been injury related.

    Both have started on other teams good defenses.

    Shelton is a Rookie 1st round pick. He's learning. He has potential to be great, we cant grade him as good/bad yet. But his potential is GREAT.

    Mingo is GOOD in coverage, and he's been making plays. Id say he's average.

    Dansby just had 2 interceptions the other week. He's the brain of the defense at this stage in his carreer and he's a pro-bowler.

    Kirksey is GREAT in coverage, average against the run, and average in rushing the passer. He's average to good.

    Cooper has shown explosion on the field, just needs to take better angles and learn some more technique, he's a rookie.. gets a pass for now.


    You cant just look at this season and declare players bad.

    I HATE WITH A PASSION

    when people say "This is a what have you done for me lately" league. Because that BS when it comes to player development and performance. There is OTHER factors that have an affect on a players output OUTSIDE of the player themselves.

    I dont understand how so many people come to the logical conclusion that the problem is THE PLAYERS... when many of THE PLAYERS in question have a TRACK RECORD or HAVE SHOWN that they can play well in the past... whereas the COACHING STAFF who HAS NO TRACK RECORD is passed over, this is just me but WHY DO WE ASSUME THAT THE STAFF IS UTILIZING TALENT PROPERLY?

    Wouldnt logic direct us to believe a head coach whos never been a head coach before might suck at his job as opposed to a linebacker or dlineman.. who have done their jobs before and have been successful in the past?

    I get it guys.. I really do. Pettine looks and sounds like he knows what he is doing. He's a cool cucumber. I like the guy, I fell for the pro Pettine movement this spring. However when I really look at what is going on here.. it all leads back to him.
    Nope, Bryant, Hughes and the whole linebacking corps, including Kirksey, get pushed around all over the field.

    And to think Khalil Mack was there for the taking at #4 in the 2014 draft.

  24. #72
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    You just rattled off a list of veterans with either middling career numbers (D. Bryant, P. Kruger) or at the end of their careers (Dansby, Whitner) and supplemented it with a list of young players with no track record beyond their time with the Browns and declared this?:

    I dont understand how so many people come to the logical conclusion that the problem is THE PLAYERS... when many of THE PLAYERS in question have a TRACK RECORD or HAVE SHOWN that they can play well in the past
    I'll give you some scheme challenges PGL. Let's acknowledge that.

    Dude, we're the fucking WORST defense in football and the HIGHEST paid defense in football. That's all coaching?

    I'm just as stupefied by your insistence that our talent is strong as you are by the apparent support of the defensive system. As bad as we are, there's plenty of blame to go around. Facts are facts: We don't have anyone in that front seven that is an NFL star or impact player. Its a huge problem that no amount of coaching can fix.

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