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Thread: Continuity - The one thing the Browns HAVEN'T tried!!!

  1. #73
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    I feel maybe you're over-inflating the tract record of these players. Kruger, he has only had more than 5 sacks 3 of his 7 seasons in the NFL, and is on pace to fall short of that this year... (yes usage plays a role for sure). Bryant, again, injuries are the biggest knock as you noted. Starks is what he is, a whily veteran. IMO no one has really been giving the staff slack in regard to the defense. People have been calling out O'Neil for quite some time.

    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I dont understand how so many people come to the logical conclusion that the problem is THE PLAYERS... when many of THE PLAYERS in question have a TRACK RECORD or HAVE SHOWN that they can play well in the past... whereas the COACHING STAFF who HAS NO TRACK RECORD is passed over, this is just me but WHY DO WE ASSUME THAT THE STAFF IS UTILIZING TALENT PROPERLY?
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    I feel like our defense was great last year, and it was even great under Horton the year prior (outside of the last 5 minutes of games)


    Now I will concede to this.. one thing that HAS pissed me off about Farmer, is his DESCISONS to not RETAIN talent, when we have plenty of money and are under that cap.

    Letting Skrine and Ward go pissed me off. I expressed as much in the forums at that time.

    Which mind you.. I was lightweight berated for (especially with WARD) and was told .. "Whitners so much better in coverage"

    Im not doing the "I told you so" thing though, because I realize, were all in this together and we all want the same thing. We want W's. I just feel that the talent we have is being underrated a bit, and the talent and/or impact of the staff is being overrated a bit.

    Another thing that works against my notion that its Pettines fault, is that last year Pettine was more involved with the defense... maybe thats why it was better, and Pettine is more involved with the offense this year, and maybe thats why its better this year.

    Maybe Pettines only problem is evenly distributing his expertise.

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    That's a more measured take PGL and one I think you'll find much alignment with me and others. I think the more recent growth in player criticism has stemmed from the initial reaction we all had when they sucked from the start: "What the hell is O'Neil and Pettine doing?". They've been so bad so consistently now that, at least for me, a broader concern regarding overall talent level seems warranted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I feel like our defense was great last year, and it was even great under Horton the year prior (outside of the last 5 minutes of games)


    Now I will concede to this.. one thing that HAS pissed me off about Farmer, is his DESCISONS to not RETAIN talent, when we have plenty of money and are under that cap.

    Letting Skrine and Ward go pissed me off. I expressed as much in the forums at that time.

    Which mind you.. I was lightweight berated for (especially with WARD) and was told .. "Whitners so much better in coverage"

    Im not doing the "I told you so" thing though, because I realize, were all in this together and we all want the same thing. We want W's. I just feel that the talent we have is being underrated a bit, and the talent and/or impact of the staff is being overrated a bit.

    Another thing that works against my notion that its Pettines fault, is that last year Pettine was more involved with the defense... maybe thats why it was better, and Pettine is more involved with the offense this year, and maybe thats why its better this year.

    Maybe Pettines only problem is evenly distributing his expertise.
    The head coach should be deeply involved in both the offense and the defense period. He has the final say at the end of the day. I could name a list of head coaches longer than my arm who were knowledgeable enough on both sides of the ball to do this. These coaches were so good that their coordinators learned from them. The fact that Pettine cannot do this tells me he's lazy or simply not very good. How many of his coordinators or assistants do you think will move on to a head coaching position? And excel at it.
    Last edited by Stray Dawg; 11-04-2015 at 04:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Dawg View Post
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    The head coach should be deeply involved in both the offense and the defense period. He has the final say at the end of the day. I could name a list of head coaches longer than my arm who were knowledgeable enough on both sides of the ball to do this. These coaches were so good that their coordinators learned from them. The fact that Pettine cannot do this tells me he's lazy or simply not very good. How many of his coordinators or assistants do you think will move on to a head coaching position? And excel at it.
    Our lot in life from turning over our head coaching position every two years: We weren't going to get one of those guys but have to hope we got a guy from the 2nd tier list who can develop.

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    Des Bryant sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Our lot in life from turning over our head coaching position every two years: We weren't going to get one of those guys but have to hope we got a guy from the 2nd tier list who can develop.
    That's the key word, develop. How do you develop a coach on a 2-year time span?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    That's the key word, develop. How do you develop a coach on a 2-year time span?
    What you do is hire a competent guy as head coach. A coach does his "development" as an assistant so he is ready to do the job once he gets it!

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    Pettine needs to un-hook the fucking anchor that is O'Neil and take control of the defense if he has any HOPE of saving his job.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

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    O'Neil is just a dc in name only.

    This is pettine's defense, its not like he isnt the head coach who was promoted from defensice coordinator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoatShoes View Post
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    O'Neil is just a dc in name only.

    This is pettine's defense, its not like he isnt the head coach who was promoted from defensice coordinator.
    O'Neil has full control of the defense.

    I was just stating that the one thing that could maybe save his job is if he fires his buddy and takes over the defensive play calling.

    We still suck against the run but the defense played a lot better when Pettine was calling their plays last year.

    Not like it matters. All these guys will be gone in time.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

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    Continuity ?
    Lets start this idea next year. we are not improving. we are worse than 18 months ago.
    one year ago 6-3
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    Wouldn't mind getting rid of O'Neil for Mike Smith, who was previously the head coach of the Atlanta Falcons. He actually reminds me of our coaching staff. He was a heck of a coach with a roster that played good football, but when the roster declined due to key retirements and losses, so did the wins. They reloaded with Dann Quinn, and the success is back - interestingly enough, with a lot of players that Mike Smith acquired like Hageman (Had a terrible attitude when he came in the league), Warrilow, Soliai and the entire secondary.

    I think he'd be a great signing for us. He's a veteran, very intelligent, has been a part of success in the past. He and Pettine have subtle differences in their approach, but both men could build one hell of a defense.

    But, as I keep saying, none of it matters unless we actually go get talented players.

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    Mike Smith was a good HC...

    But dude is soft.

    We need a screamer

    I want to replace Pettine with Nolan

    Last edited by PlaygroundLegend; 11-06-2015 at 10:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Mike Smith was a good HC...

    But dude is soft.

    We need a screamer

    I want to replace Pettine with Nolan

    I do not want another DC turned HC here.. Nolan is a good DC.. He's lousy as a HC.. Screaming doesnt get you many victories.. See Paul Brown , Bill Belichic and Bill Walsh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    Pettine needs to un-hook the fucking anchor that is O'Neil and take control of the defense if he has any HOPE of saving his job.
    If I am Haslem this morning...

    I inform Pettine that O'Neil will be fired this afternoon. That if Mike wants to have any shot at remaining the coach of the Cleveland Browns he must...

    1. Take over DC duties with the understanding that defensive performance will be evaluated and will figure heavily in any decision to retain him past this season.

    2. Manziel is to be named starter and Flip and the offensive staff are to operate independently. Offensive performance will be monitored and player evaluation will be the cornerstone of the remainder of the season . I believe that Flip and the offensive staff have been a bright spot considering lack of experience and talent and should be allowed operate without the interference of a HC with a very tenuous hold in his job and full defensive responsibilities.

    If Pettine balks at any of this he is let go and in working with Farmer and the rest of the organization an interim guy is brought in or selected from the staff. DC could be a problem, but honestly can it be any worse than the defense we trot out on the field today? This is 1 of only 32 jobs, if a guy is brought in from outside it is with the understanding he will be strongly considered to remain HC if his and teams performance merits it.

    I realize this guy may be hard to find. Promote from within if necessary.

    Riding out rest of the season with the status quo in place will serve no positive purpose. Playing a 36 year old QB will not benefit the team in any way. Use these 7 games with a positive purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brutalfacts View Post
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    If I am Haslem this morning...

    I inform Pettine that O'Neil will be fired this afternoon. That if Mike wants to have any shot at remaining the coach of the Cleveland Browns he must...

    1. Take over DC duties with the understanding that defensive performance will be evaluated and will figure heavily in any decision to retain him past this season.

    2. Manziel is to be named starter and Flip and the offensive staff are to operate independently. Offensive performance will be monitored and player evaluation will be the cornerstone of the remainder of the season . I believe that Flip and the offensive staff have been a bright spot considering lack of experience and talent and should be allowed operate without the interference of a HC with a very tenuous hold in his job and full defensive responsibilities.

    If Pettine balks at any of this he is let go and in working with Farmer and the rest of the organization an interim guy is brought in or selected from the staff. DC could be a problem, but honestly can it be any worse than the defense we trot out on the field today? This is 1 of only 32 jobs, if a guy is brought in from outside it is with the understanding he will be strongly considered to remain HC if his and teams performance merits it.

    I realize this guy may be hard to find. Promote from within if necessary.

    Riding out rest of the season with the status quo in place will serve no positive purpose. Playing a 36 year old QB will not benefit the team in any way. Use these 7 games with a positive purpose.
    The Browns are not going to make the playoffs, that is for sure! Start Erving, Cooper, Orchard and Campbell to give them experience.

    But that's not going to happen because Pettine is still trying to hold on to his job.

    12 losses in the last 14 games. The team can't go on like this ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Mike Smith was a good HC...

    But dude is soft.

    We need a screamer

    I want to replace Pettine with Nolan
    We need a coach capable of moving some of the blood in those bodies!

    Whitner, Dansby, Haden, Kruger, Mingo all jettisoned and bring in some tougher football players and a head coach to match!

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    there is no fucking way you can be 2-7 and still hold your job.. And Haslam.. please sell the team.. You are completely incapable of owning/running one.
    Last edited by nickers; 11-06-2015 at 11:14 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Mike Smith was a good HC...

    But dude is soft.

    We need a screamer

    I want to replace Pettine with Nolan
    I hate screamers. They never get through, and they usually end up mentally destroying young players. That's something I personally relate to, the more aggressive teachers and adult influences made, and still make, me extremely uncomfortable. Very, very few people thrive in such circumstances.

    And we're not even a good team. The last thing we need is a screamer on a shit team.

    The best are laid back and confident. They put in the work and then stand by it, good or bad. That's exactly what we need on a team inches from a complete rebuild on both sides of the ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brutalfacts View Post
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    If I am Haslem this morning...

    I inform Pettine that O'Neil will be fired this afternoon. That if Mike wants to have any shot at remaining the coach of the Cleveland Browns he must...

    1. Take over DC duties with the understanding that defensive performance will be evaluated and will figure heavily in any decision to retain him past this season.

    2. Manziel is to be named starter and Flip and the offensive staff are to operate independently. Offensive performance will be monitored and player evaluation will be the cornerstone of the remainder of the season . I believe that Flip and the offensive staff have been a bright spot considering lack of experience and talent and should be allowed operate without the interference of a HC with a very tenuous hold in his job and full defensive responsibilities.

    If Pettine balks at any of this he is let go and in working with Farmer and the rest of the organization an interim guy is brought in or selected from the staff. DC could be a problem, but honestly can it be any worse than the defense we trot out on the field today? This is 1 of only 32 jobs, if a guy is brought in from outside it is with the understanding he will be strongly considered to remain HC if his and teams performance merits it.

    I realize this guy may be hard to find. Promote from within if necessary.

    Riding out rest of the season with the status quo in place will serve no positive purpose. Playing a 36 year old QB will not benefit the team in any way. Use these 7 games with a positive purpose.
    Jesus, if Haslam actually did that he'd become the new Al Davis and we'd literally never, ever get another coach to come here.

    I get your frustration for sure; but I realize your post was largely in jest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Jesus, if Haslam actually did that he'd become the new Al Davis and we'd literally never, ever get another coach to come here.

    I get your frustration for sure; but I realize your post was largely in jest.

    Pettine is done...
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    I know I am definitely in the minority now, but I am holding firm on wanting to keep this front office in tact going into next season. If they DO decide to fire everybody, Jimmy Haslam BETTER have replacements in place when he makes that decision. We can't have another one of these circus coaching searches. Jimmy needs to, for once, have an actual solution to a problem before taking action. Take a breath, think first, then act.

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    I don't think last night's game changed my position on the continuity thing. In fact, it might have strengthened it. My stance is the same as it has been, which reflects what the original posters on this thread said. We need a 3rd year out of this regime to 1: give them adequate opportunities to make their mark, and 2: Prove to other future candidates that you will have a chance to make your mark. The only change I think is reasonable at this time is a DC change.

    Last night's game made me believe that even more. Did you hear / see some of the information about the Bengals? I'm going to regurgitate some of the approximate stats. But before I do, remember that the Bengals had a LONGER and worse period of futility than the Browns did up until 6-7 years ago. With that. . .

    - Marvin Lewis was a sub-.500 coach through 6 season. . . in his 6th season they went 4-11. Did they fire him? No, they gave him a chance to succeed. Now he's been a coach for 13 seasons. The browns have had 6 coaches during that time. . . Davis, Crennel, Mangini, Shurmur, Chud, and now Pettine. The ONLY winning record in that time came in the 3rd season with Crennel / Savage. In year 4 they had a down year and were promptly fired. I remember after that 4-11 season being shocked that they kept Lewis. Well it's a good thing they did.

    - Andy Dalton is in his 5th year and hasn't missed a game. I believe the Browns have played 9 QBs in the same time. Dalton had his struggles, and even struggled in big games / prime time. But he learned, grew, matured. . . they may even win a playoff game this year. They built talent around him and gave him a chance to succeed.

    - There is some ridiculous amount of players on the Bengals who were signed / drafted by the bengals (never played for another team). It's like 47 of the 53 man roster. (Might be slightly wrong, but it's close). They are filling their team over time through the draft. (Not firing a regime, bringing in new players, dumping the old system players every 2 years). I can't even imagine what that number is for the Browns. . . what, maybe 20 - 25 players?

    THAT is why the Browns continue to struggle, and THAT is why I want a 3rd year with a consistent GM and coach.

    So yes, right now, I want continuity for continuity's sake.

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