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Thread: Whisenhunt Fired! Pettine Next?

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    Default Whisenhunt Fired! Pettine Next?

    Yes? No? Maybe?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Dawg View Post
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    Yes? No? Maybe?
    After everything I've read the last two days (the fire sale that wasn't, the Pettine vs. Farmer theory, etc.) nothing would surprise me. Depending on how bad the throttling is tomorrow, I could see it; it gives whoever the interim is more than a week to prepare for his debut.

    Not saying I want it to happen, or that I'd agree with it being done, just that I could see it.
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    Haslam would look really bad if that happened. He said they were safe going into 2016...to pull the trigger DURING 2015 would not only make him look like he is a quick trigger....but that he isn't to be trusted by the next guy that comes to the position.

    I don't see it happening...and honestly...I think they likely stick with who they have.

    All the big stories about the Browns have come from two places...LaCanfora and Grossi. LaCanfora has it in for Cleveland...I can't remember a single positive article from him since Lombardi got canned...and Grossi is the same way...ever since he got canned for talking smack on the previous owner. Hence...I don't put much into their columns.

    I truly WOULD be shocked if Pettine is not the HC going into the 2016 season...and same for Farmer at GM.

    Now...I would NOT be surprised if they pressure Pettine to get rid of O'Neil...and Pettine asks out because of it.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't coving for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Could a dumping of O'Neil be a possible reason for the delay on the presser that's being delayed?

    EDIT: No. Apparently it's not.
    Last edited by ToastedPagel; 11-03-2015 at 04:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Haslam would look really bad if that happened. He said they were safe going into 2016...to pull the trigger DURING 2015 would not only make him look like he is a quick trigger....but that he isn't to be trusted by the next guy that comes to the position.
    Considering Chud, he already looks like he's got a quick trigger finger. I would argue, Pettine already has this perception.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Dawg View Post
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    Yes? No? Maybe?
    No firing. Who replaces Pettine? O'Neil is a disaster and DeFlip is still very young and learning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Considering Chud, he already looks like he's got a quick trigger finger. I would argue, Pettine already has this perception.
    Personally, I always thought that was a Banner move.

    Here is some stuff from back then

    The front office wanted young guys thrown into the fire and Chud wanted to stick with some veterans. Take this example:


    A case in point was the quick de-activation of cornerback Chris Owens on injured reserve to give playing time to rookie draft pick Leon McFadden, whom the coaches had buried on the bench. Owens later asked for his release once he was medically cleared from a knee injury and was signed by the Miami Dolphins.

    This is crazy, right? Leon McFadden is a rookie and has not really shown any kind of NFL ability. But he was one of the few draft picks made by this front office, and a relatively high one at that. I think they needed to prove they were right about him, and the fact that Chud told them they were wrong created friction. By far the scariest part of this article to me was the revelation that Joe Banner was trying to tell Chudzinski how to run the locker room. This is terrifying:


    At one point, Chudzinski was urged by Banner to “shake up” the locker room by cutting wide receiver Greg Little or guard Shawn Lauvao. Chudzinski declined, and that was interpreted as Chudzinski not holding players accountable for their failings.
    With all the power Banner had...I think it was not a Haslam move.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't coving for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Personally, I always thought that was a Banner move. With all the power Banner had...I think it was not a Haslam move.
    I feel ya, and I do not like recalling the LomBanner era to any degree what so ever but regardless, Haslam fired the coach, the then fired the GM and team president/furher/whatever Banner was, or sorry, we let him leave whatever bullshit whitewash PR name they wanted to put on it, fucker was fired. These things make Haslam look a certain way. I am with you on the continuity front... at least in theory.

    Man I am still shaking my head at Wisenhunt. I pity the franchise who gives him another chance to head coach.
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    No reason to fire him before the end of the season, just wouldn't make sense. But then again neither would be trading Thomas but apparently we are shopping him so

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    Deadline is over...

    So, if manziel comes out and looks good and team plays well bc of his energy...live arm... Legs.. All of it. He inspires rest of guys. Everyone says they like him...some say they play better bc ofbhim....extending plays....defense worries about him.

    Changes how teams defend us. Browns r stupid for saying they starting him. Pettine should keep his damn mouth shut and everyone else. Media is our damn problem and lockerrom divided always.


    I think if we dont beat either cincy or pitt pettine gone and oneil or at least oneil if d plays shitty and gets no pressure turnovers or cant stop any runs by anybody.

    Pettine needs to lead this team....inspire them....get division wins or....

    He wont make it to 2016 let alone maybe end of 2015 .

    Haslam is gonna make pettine fire oneil if nothing else. If he wont.... Resign.


    The team is lost. Manziel msy be exactly what they need.



    Manziel ....duke johnson ....ej bibbs.... Erving.... All need to play. Gilbert at wr and on defense.

    See if anyone can get a pass rush.

    Move bitonio to riight tackle

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    Lets get crazy

    Sumlin for HC!!

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    If Pett is fired, and the two jobs open are the job where Marcus Mariota resides, and the place where our QB's reside - who do you think a prospective HC would choose?

    ---

    I watched today's presser, and boy, Pett and Ray sure seem like their seat isn't warm at all.

    Especially Ray. That dude looks totally comfortable.

    Of course, continued losing can change that in a heartbeat for the worse.

    And so can one win on Thursday night, for the better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    I watched today's presser, and boy, Pett and Ray sure seem like their seat isn't warm at all.
    I didn't watch it Ocon but I've heard nothing but bad about that press conference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    I didn't watch it Ocon but I've heard nothing but bad about that press conference.
    It was abundantly clear that Pettine is done with the media. Pretty much as usual. I like it in the sense he just wants to coach football, but I don't like it in the sense it seems flat and lethargic - You have media requirements, make the most of it.

    Ray, he just seemed like a pompous ass as usual. He's smarter than everyone else ever and we should all worship the ground upon which he walks. I would give up anything to take a swing at his fucking face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    It was abundantly clear that Pettine is done with the media.
    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    Ray, he just seemed like a pompous ass as usual. He's smarter than everyone else


    That's a fair assessment.

    Pett is getting flatter and flatter in his responses.

    Ray seemed, weirdly enough, somewhat upbeat, in a way. Almost like he was wearing on his sleeve "you try your best, and sometimes it doesn't work out, and that's life".

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    That's a fair assessment.

    Pett is getting flatter and flatter in his responses.

    Ray seemed, weirdly enough, somewhat upbeat, in a way. Almost like he was wearing on his sleeve "you try your best, and sometimes it doesn't work out, and that's life".

    https://amp.twimg.com/v/f9f98646-50d...a-711f6ce33eac
    I don't see Farmer ever coming off upbeat, he just comes off a cocky prick.

    I remember the first question he was asked was about the value of the rumored Joe Thomas trade. Farmer proceeds to say he's leaving all names out of it, and then condescendingly explains the trade deadline conversations are nothing unless a deal is actually made like we don't fucking already know exactly what it is - and this wasn't it. He tried to trade Joe Thomas, and he came within a round of doing so. How can the guy attempt to trade a Cleveland Browns legend, a future hall of famer, our only light in the darkness, and then have the audacity to not even mention him by name and own up to the fact he just tried to trade the living legend who is playing amazing football right now?

    Shit, I'd have some respect if he said "Joe is a great football player, and for that reason, everyone loves him almost as much as we do - the difference being, he's ours. As a result, teams are going to come calling, and we felt no other option but to assess the value and see if it was something we were willing to consider. Ultimately, we decided against it because Joe is worth too much to us, even against some of the very large value trades offered to us."

    But, no, not Ray Farmer. He knows everything, you know nothing, and he's willing to tell you everything you don't know because it's so easy for him. Now I know how a horse feels when people go all baby talk on them. "Who a good horsey-horse!? You a good neigh-neigh!" "I'll have you know I am a thoroughbred stallion. Good day to you, sir."

    What I like about Pettine is that he is beat down by this. It's not going as he wanted it to go. He comes to the stand and he says that players and coaches alike have to do better. They have to find out where they are going wrong. They have to find out how they can fix it, and then fix it. The man isn't enjoying himself right now, especially when talking to the media and getting bombarded with dumbass fucking questions like "Johnny fans want Johnny to start but you won't start him, it's because you hate him, right?" that he's got to answer. You can see that Pettine, physically and mentally, hates the losing and playing poorly. He wants it bad, and the fact it isn't here yet is draining him. Anyone see him on the sidelines when we were kicking Arizona's ass? The guy was alive. He fucking loved that shit. He was running and jumping and yelling, boisterous and happy. When we ended up losing, he seemed to take the defeat personally.

    Ray, Ray isn't that guy. He's so absorbed with himself that he doesn't give a shit that we're losing because NONE of it is his fault. Actually, he's so good, that it's taking the collective effort of everyone around him to not look good. This guy seriously sat up there and said "My seat isn't any hotter than the day I got this job" in a display of arrogance that knocked me for six (Cricket term, think being knocked for a homerun) and made my head hurt. Nothing like "No pressure will ever be greater than what I apply to myself" or "Honestly, I need to do better, and I think you'll find everyone feels that way. My job isn't to worry about how hot my seat is, it's to bring this team the talent needed to win football games, which is the only way to cool a seat down without air-conditioning" Nothing like that, just total fucking arrogance.

    Unlike Pettine, Farmer is totally fine. He couldn't be more content with himself. He's off to go wank himself stupid in front of a fucking mirror. It's the same reason he hasn't but Bowe's useless ass - dude doesn't make mistakes. He's perfect. So perfect that even considering he should evaluate himself to find out just how imperfect he's been is an imperfect suggestion. Ray even has the audacity to suggest that Bowe isn't performing because he isn't out there enough - Which makes Ray Farmer literally the only person in the entire world who cannot see that Dwayne Bowe is a pretty shit football player. There are eskimos and starving African children who could tell you that just about anyone (Not named Vince Mayle) is better than Bowe. Greg Little would be a WELCOME upgrade over Bowe.

    I'm ranting now, but the dude seriously pisses me off. It's one thing to do a bad job, it's another to so evidently believe that you've done a great job in the face of all rational logic. The dude needs to be fired. Yesterday.

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    Very well put BDU.

    I was able to watch the pressers and there were three things I was able to take away from it;

    1. Mike Pettine, as you said, looks like an exhausted and frustrated man.

    2. Ray Farmer seemed to not want to take personal responsibility for mistakes he made. He preferred to say WE a lot. Oh and he must be a professional tap dancer because he's amazing at dancing around questions.

    3. There is a total, 100%, DISCONNECT between the FO and HC.

    With that being said. I've honestly grown tired of both of them. I'm pissed at myself for being a staunch defender of this regime, especially a Farmer defender. I think both Pettine and Farmer are in over their head. Neither has done anything to help the other since they were paired together as well. I know they've tried to convey an image of sunshine and fucking rainbows but there is clearly a huge problem going on behind closed doors.

    I really, really, really, really, really, really want continuity here but I don't see how you can do it with these guys.
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    I always think back to Bill Belichick. Watching footage of him doing his thing in Cleveland, it was so clear that he was in charge and he was doing his thing because he knew what he wanted. He was the motherfucking head coach. The head coach was the big boss. He knew his scheme, he knew what he wanted, and he went and got them. Man, have we ever let that slip. Now we have a general manager who picks whoever he wants and the coach has to make do with them, and we do so without a general manager with an impressive track record - and example being Ozzie Newsome. That seems to be how it's been for the longest time and it just doesn't work in our case. The relationship always breaks down, we always end up with a team that doesn't look built for the same purpose, we always look like a chop and change of several different teams - which I credit to both the GM making all the picks, and the constant overturn.

    Looking through front offices because I'm pissed at Ray and want us to find someone else, I noticed something - I have no fucking idea who I was looking for. I can name, off the top of my head, most teams starting players. I can name who the good ones are, who sucks. I can name the head coaches and a lot of coordinators. When it came to the teams drafting well, I was totally oblivious as to who stacked their football operations department. Why? When people talk about their drafting, they name the coach. Boy, Bruce Arians knows how to pick players. Bill Belichick just knows what to look for in good players. It's always something along those lines, and the coaches themselves openly talk about what they saw in them in the draft process. These really successful teams let the coaches do their thing, and the general managers give them space to do so.

    I'm not saying give the head coach total control. An example is Seattle. I know that a lot of their gems were found by Pete Carroll, but John Schneider was willing to stand up and say "Hey, I love this Russell Wilson kid, let me convince you to take him." Pete is quoted as saying something along the lines of "Boy, am I glad he changed my mind." Using that example, I am certainly not saying general managers serve no purpose, but if you're a coach - you know what you're looking for in players you want to either fit your system, or give you a dynamic you can build around.

    What upset me recently is when I found a rumor from LaCanFucky (Hang with me) in which he said the Browns were locked between signing Dwayne Bowe, Stevie Johnson and Andre Holmes. Interesting - Farmer knew Bowe from Kansas, Pettine knew Johnson from Buffalo and Flip was with Andre Holmes in Oakland. Obviously, Farmer won out, and both Holmes and Johnson are doing better than Bowe at a fraction of the cost. In fact, Holmes is literally 5x cheaper.

    When I think about the above, in that he won't let the coaches have their way at a position he openly doesn't even like, can anyone really say he's honestly giving them the respect they deserve when it comes to high draft picks and big name free agents? I highly, highly fucking doubt it.

    I remind everyone of the Warren Sapp moment. In Warren Sapp's book, he said that Bill Belichick said to him pre-draft "I wanna draft you so bad that I have an erection right now. But [GM] Mike Lombardi will not let me draft you. I just want you to know it is not on me. I want you in Cleveland.” before Cleveland traded down to 30 and selected Craig Powell, who um, well, wasn't Warren Sapp. In fact, Sapp was bold enough to say that had we selected him, Cleveland would have won a Superbowl, and would have never moved to Baltimore. Had we won a Superbowl? Let's remember Bill Belichick hand selected Tom Brady, he made that pick himself, even with a quarterback on the roster. So, let's put two and two together while trying to contain erections that have us dying inside, dreaming of a team that could have easily boasted the likes of Warren Sapp and Tom Brady.

    Is that luck, or is that a head coach knowing what he wants in football players and being given the freedom to make his selections?

    I am not saying Pettine can evaluate talent like Bill Belichick, not even close, but we do know he possibly missed out on the likes of Stevie Johnson and Arthur Moats, who would have made this team better. Who knows who else he wanted, I won't post every rumor as a hard fact. I do know he was free to sign Jim Leonard, who was fantastic for us until he called it a day.

    I am starting to view head coach the same way I view quarterback. I think the best way to build a team is to put your quarterback in a good situation and then stick with him, surrounding him with as much talent as possible and letting him be your guy. If you want a head coach, let him be your guy, let him build his team and find the players he wants and feels can be part of turning his scheme into a reality and guys he feels he can adapt into his scheme to make plays.

    I feel like, with Pettine, the guy gets what he's given - and it's hurting us. If he goes, I hope the next coach is allowed to have a true say in who he wants and the general manager plays the backseat role, finding guys he's willing to stand up for and convince the coach they must be part of the team rather than telling him so.
    Last edited by brownsdownunder; 11-04-2015 at 08:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    Very well put BDU.

    I was able to watch the pressers and there were three things I was able to take away from it;

    1. Mike Pettine, as you said, looks like an exhausted and frustrated man.

    2. Ray Farmer seemed to not want to take personal responsibility for mistakes he made. He preferred to say WE a lot. Oh and he must be a professional tap dancer because he's amazing at dancing around questions.

    3. There is a total, 100%, DISCONNECT between the FO and HC.

    With that being said. I've honestly grown tired of both of them. I'm pissed at myself for being a staunch defender of this regime, especially a Farmer defender. I think both Pettine and Farmer are in over their head. Neither has done anything to help the other since they were paired together as well. I know they've tried to convey an image of sunshine and fucking rainbows but there is clearly a huge problem going on behind closed doors.

    I really, really, really, really, really, really want continuity here but I don't see how you can do it with these guys.
    This bunch are a bunch of Dufuses's except Flip
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickers View Post
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    This bunch are a bunch of Dufuses's except Flip
    In the case of O'Neil, I think he may be the worst major coach the Browns have had in these past 15 years. EE said Ryan was worse, I don't know about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    In the case of O'Neil, I think he may be the worst major coach the Browns have had in these past 15 years. EE said Ryan was worse, I don't know about that.

    Yeah.. I'm sick of all theyre asses,,...And Whisencunt is a mean little bitch.. I dont like him.
    Last edited by nickers; 11-04-2015 at 08:15 AM.
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    Rob Ryans first season as our d coordinator we were top 15.. robs history is that his defense always disintegrates year 2

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    Fair enough, I just remember the common problems. Getting burned deep and recurrent inability to stop the run...
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    Thats 100% true, he blitzed so much that the offenses could run right past it.

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