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Thread: Whisenhunt Fired! Pettine Next?

  1. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedPagel View Post
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    I did just see he actually just signed a five year deal this offseason. So perhaps he won't get canned.

    But with Jerry being who he is and always looking to put the blame anywhere and everywhere else, I also don't see how he can keep Garrett around without accepting some blame himself-- which he has repeatedly refused to do.
    It doesn't matter. We apparently have a young quarterback who has apparently mastered DeFilippo's system. Assuming that Manziel turns out to be our quarterback of the future, the last thing I would want is for him to have to learn a new system. There is no good reason to intentionally confuse him. The WCO is the prevailing offense in the NFL for a reason.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    I want changes, but I want to keep DeFlippo and his system and Manziel.

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    Maybe we can Have Garret as the HC.. and have Flip stay as OC, and Garret can teach flip the coryell and they can run a hybrid

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Maybe we can stick with this group...let them actually have 3-4 years before throwing out the baby with the bath water...and see if they can make things work.

    The D is a mess, I agree. I personally think either Pettine needs to get back on that side of the ball, or they need to bring in a new guy to run it. I also look at our personnel and wonder why they are still trying to run the 3-4...the personnel has several players that look like a 3 tech (Cooper/Starks), Shelton can easily move to a 1 tech (and even play 3 on heavy situations)...our OLB group has guys like A.Bryant/Orchard/Meder who can easily move to DE...as can Solomon.

    As for the LB's....Solomon/A.Bryant can also play the SAM, as can Kruger to a certain extent. They can take on the lead blocker, and are decent in coverage if needed. On the WILL...I think Mingo is a perfect fit. He is fast, still carries decent weight...and can cover anyone out of the backfield. Robertson could also fit here. Finally, I think Kirksey actually makes a really good MIKE. He is fast, intelligent, and can drop into coverage if the Browns go into a Tampa 2.

    The players are closer to a 4-3 now...one or two more pieces (mainly a better option at SAM to free up the DE's for pass rush) and they can go. Plus, it is easier to run a 4-2 on passing downs with that setup.

    On offense...I like the TE group...I like the OL...I like some of the WR's...but the Browns need a physical presence at WR and they need a RB that doesn't get dropped at first contact. They need a bruiser.
    Last edited by DawgFan; 11-17-2015 at 02:32 PM.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    He's not getting fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Maybe we can stick with this group...let them actually have 3-4 years before throwing out the baby with the bath water...and see if they can make things work.

    The D is a mess, I agree. I personally think either Pettine needs to get back on that side of the ball, or they need to bring in a new guy to run it. I also look at our personnel and wonder why they are still trying to run the 3-4...the personnel has several players that look like a 3 tech (Cooper/Starks), Shelton can easily move to a 1 tech (and even play 3 on heavy situations)...our OLB group has guys like A.Bryant/Orchard/Meder who can easily move to DE...as can Solomon.

    As for the LB's....Solomon/A.Bryant can also play the SAM, as can Kruger to a certain extent. They can take on the lead blocker, and are decent in coverage if needed. On the WILL...I think Mingo is a perfect fit. He is fast, still carries decent weight...and can cover anyone out of the backfield. Robertson could also fit here. Finally, I think Kirksey actually makes a really good MIKE. He is fast, intelligent, and can drop into coverage if the Browns go into a Tampa 2.

    The players are closer to a 4-3 now...one or two more pieces (mainly a better option at SAM to free up the DE's for pass rush) and they can go. Plus, it is easier to run a 4-2 on passing downs with that setup.

    On offense...I like the TE group...I like the OL...I like some of the WR's...but the Browns need a physical presence at WR and they need a RB that doesn't get dropped at first contact. They need a bruiser.
    I say elevate DeFilippo and a new 4-3 DC.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Would prefer Sean Payton given the option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    I say elevate DeFilippo and a new 4-3 DC.
    Flip isn't even close to being ready for the HC job....most were surprised he even got an OC position.

    In 2013 Pettine was basically a 4-3 hybrid...but essentially a 4-3 with the one DE either playing up or with a hand in the ground. This is discussed here.

    http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/2/...fronts-edition

    The problem right now is that the Browns don't have a guy like Mario Williams that can go DE/OLB...I think they are trying to groom A.Bryant for that role...but he isn't nearly as explosive.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Maybe we can stick with this group...let them actually have 3-4 years before throwing out the baby with the bath water...and see if they can make things work.

    The D is a mess, I agree. I personally think either Pettine needs to get back on that side of the ball, or they need to bring in a new guy to run it. I also look at our personnel and wonder why they are still trying to run the 3-4...the personnel has several players that look like a 3 tech (Cooper/Starks), Shelton can easily move to a 1 tech (and even play 3 on heavy situations)...our OLB group has guys like A.Bryant/Orchard/Meder who can easily move to DE...as can Solomon.

    As for the LB's....Solomon/A.Bryant can also play the SAM, as can Kruger to a certain extent. They can take on the lead blocker, and are decent in coverage if needed. On the WILL...I think Mingo is a perfect fit. He is fast, still carries decent weight...and can cover anyone out of the backfield. Robertson could also fit here. Finally, I think Kirksey actually makes a really good MIKE. He is fast, intelligent, and can drop into coverage if the Browns go into a Tampa 2.

    The players are closer to a 4-3 now...one or two more pieces (mainly a better option at SAM to free up the DE's for pass rush) and they can go. Plus, it is easier to run a 4-2 on passing downs with that setup.

    On offense...I like the TE group...I like the OL...I like some of the WR's...but the Browns need a physical presence at WR and they need a RB that doesn't get dropped at first contact. They need a bruiser.
    Solomon isn't an answer -- he's mediocre like Kirksey and the rest of that sorry LB group! Weakling Mingo may be the worst LB in all of pro football.

    Meder is another mediocre player.

    TE group is very mediocre, probably below average, except for Barnidge.

    You like the wide receivers? Yes, we heard that in dozens of posts for two years. I think they all stink except for benjamin -- Browns have possibly the worst WR corps in football.

    One big mistake: Getting rid of Sheard, a good football player.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    I say elevate DeFilippo and a new 4-3 DC.
    DeFlip lacks the experience to run a team and has his hands full with the offense right now, which can't run the ball or protect the QB!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Legendary View Post
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    Would prefer Sean Payton given the option.
    He would be better than Pettine, too. So we have garret and Payton suggested so far -- good ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Browns have possibly the worst WR corps in football.
    AO, a serious, non-troll question for you (I know I risk the "Boy who called wolf" syndrome here, but I'm truly curious for your response):

    How do you reconcile the above statement with the statistical fact that this same receiving corps is part of a top third rated passing offense that has dealt with a somewhat revolving door at QB?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedPagel View Post
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    Of course this is all IF Pettine gets canned. Which, for better or worse, seems to be coming.

    Obviously whoever the Browns get as coach, it will either have to be A. Someone completely unproven and desperate for a head coaching position (AKA yet another Pettine/Shurmur clone), or B. Someone who will need a Brinks truck backed up to his house.

    What about Jason Garrett? Let's be honest: Jerry Jones ain't keeping him around much longer. Jerry is the biggest problem in Dallas, but he's going to scapegoat yet another coach, and largely has controlled everything that should be Garrett's duties (Why is Jerry holding the press conferences to name McFadden and Cassel starters? Does any other team have the owner/president/GM announce these things?). It seems most/many on here want an offensive-minded head coach this time around. Garrett is experienced, moderately successful, and as a former QB he could/should have some insight on further developing Manziel or whoever the Browns draft if he somehow craps out over these final six games. Additionally he has a Cleveland connection as a University School grad.

    Your thoughts?
    The problem is we have our own Jerry. Except he is much worse.

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    Me thinks the chances of Garrett getting canned is slim to be honest. A lot would have to go right to land him here in CLE. I just don't see it happening. A nice bye week thought though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Maybe we can stick with this group...let them actually have 3-4 years before throwing out the baby with the bath water...and see if they can make things work.

    The D is a mess, I agree. I personally think either Pettine needs to get back on that side of the ball, or they need to bring in a new guy to run it. I also look at our personnel and wonder why they are still trying to run the 3-4...the personnel has several players that look like a 3 tech (Cooper/Starks), Shelton can easily move to a 1 tech (and even play 3 on heavy situations)...our OLB group has guys like A.Bryant/Orchard/Meder who can easily move to DE...as can Solomon.

    As for the LB's....Solomon/A.Bryant can also play the SAM, as can Kruger to a certain extent. They can take on the lead blocker, and are decent in coverage if needed. On the WILL...I think Mingo is a perfect fit. He is fast, still carries decent weight...and can cover anyone out of the backfield. Robertson could also fit here. Finally, I think Kirksey actually makes a really good MIKE. He is fast, intelligent, and can drop into coverage if the Browns go into a Tampa 2.

    The players are closer to a 4-3 now...one or two more pieces (mainly a better option at SAM to free up the DE's for pass rush) and they can go. Plus, it is easier to run a 4-2 on passing downs with that setup.

    On offense...I like the TE group...I like the OL...I like some of the WR's...but the Browns need a physical presence at WR and they need a RB that doesn't get dropped at first contact. They need a bruiser.


    I actually dont like Pets defensive scheme.. So whats the damn difference?
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



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    Give me Highsmith at GM, Payton at HC and LeBeau at DC and we'll go to the playoffs
    On any given Sunday...it's why we play the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior8 View Post
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    Give me Highsmith at GM, Payton at HC and LeBeau at DC and we'll go to the playoffs
    Why not???!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    AO, a serious, non-troll question for you (I know I risk the "Boy who called wolf" syndrome here, but I'm truly curious for your response):

    How do you reconcile the above statement with the statistical fact that this same receiving corps is part of a top third rated passing offense that has dealt with a somewhat revolving door at QB?
    Even Jon Gruden talked on Thursday Night Football about how the midgets are a losing proposition for the Browns offense. Benjamin is the only real receiver the Browns have. One of the reasons the Browns are so bad in the red zone is the receiving corps is not up to snuff.

    Browns are 29th in red zone scoring percentage. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...ne-scoring-pct
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 11-17-2015 at 05:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    How do you reconcile the above statement with the statistical fact that this same receiving corps is part of a top third rated passing offense that has dealt with a somewhat revolving door at QB?
    It's easy. . . our receiving corps isn't that bad. But they do need to start holding on to the damn touchdown passes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Even Jon Gruden talked on Thursday Night Football about how the midgets are a losing proposition for the Browns offense. Benjamin is the only real receiver the Browns have. One of the reasons the Browns are so bad in the red zone is the receiving corps is not up to snuff.

    Browns are 29th in red zone scoring percentage. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...ne-scoring-pct
    My biggest issue is the lack of yards after contact. I saw Bowe make a catch and move forward after contact. My mind was boggled! The Smurfs/Rabbits/Whatevers can't get yards after contact with a 10MPH wind. I didn't like Bowe coming out of college. I thought his hands were questionable, but he proved me wrong and was a really good WR for awhile there. He may be losing it, but what little he's played has shown me that if he's going to be on this roster in this year, then he should be starting.

    Start Bowe and Rabbit and let them get the majority of the reps for one game. Just try it out for one game and see what happens. The Browns are on pace for 3-13, so what do they have to lose?

    Same with other side of the ball. Go with the 4-3. Try Kruger and Bryant at DE and let Shelton and Cooper play in the middle. Nothing to lose at this point.

    -Al

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    WE HAVE TO GET BOSA TO MAKE ANY DEFENSE WORK.

    i want Pettine gone. Id fire him n oneil now.
    Promote flip..... N hire rob ryan as dc.

    Sean payton....if we keep flip
    Garrett if we kepe flip and intergrate both offenses....garrett for running........but flip for passing

    Manziel and team likes deep ball....we need to run ball and wed be top 5 offense. (pull guard and tackles) better blocking te and wr too....and more manziel designed runs with lead blocking by rb(or fb)


    Urban meyer is my first wish
    Jon Gruden second.. Both would want 10million....and be asst gm atleast to get all their own players.

    Garrett
    Payton good coaches with good offenses.

    I want peyton manning at gm if not gruden or meyer at gm.

    Manziel needs to be qb.....


    If we can sign kaepernick i would......so we can run same same offenses with both...case lf i jury....and run the ball eith qb more



    Kaepernick
    Manziel
    Braxton miller(wr n q
    Wildcat qb)


    That is a qb room i want

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    Quote Originally Posted by manzielthetruth View Post
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    we have to get bosa
    fuck. Off.

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    @JManziel2 announced qbotf.
    #BailForBosa 1stpick

    Urban brings title to OSU then Browns 2017 in year two

    @cantguardmike michael thomas 32ndpick

    #Braxton4OSUqb
    braxton miller 65thpick
    He needs groomed at QB behind Manziel in offseason and preseason. In-season.....wr and rb. Wildcat QB

    Noah spence
    Sterling shepard
    Devante booker utah


    We need a linebacker thats going to fill backside gaps,blitz qb n sack n ff, int passes, and lead the D with atritude n huge hits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Even Jon Gruden talked on Thursday Night Football about how the midgets are a losing proposition for the Browns offense. Benjamin is the only real receiver the Browns have. One of the reasons the Browns are so bad in the red zone is the receiving corps is not up to snuff.

    Browns are 29th in red zone scoring percentage. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...ne-scoring-pct
    Okay. You said we have the worst receiving corps in the league. Not one of the worst. Not worst in the red zone. The worst, period.

    Interestingly, something like 6 of Barnidge's 7 TD catches have been in the red zone. He's been an elite target there. There's also the anecdotal sense of self-inflicted issues that have affected our red zone scoring that have nothing to do with our receivers. Our first and goal from the 1 foot line after Johnny's near score with his feet comes to mind. That works against the stat.

    I think the more reasonable view here is what Martin said: they really aren't that bad. There is an obvious ability to improve the unit. We've talked ad naseum about the impact a Gordon "type" could have. However, the unit has produced in just about all other measures other than the somewhat cherrypicked redzone team stat.

    Seattle, a much discussed team here, is interestingly 32nd in red zone scoring according to that link. I wonder if that means their receiver corps is worse than ours?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    I feel like, with Pettine, the guy gets what he's given - and it's hurting us. If he goes, I hope the next coach is allowed to have a true say in who he wants and the general manager plays the backseat role, finding guys he's willing to stand up for and convince the coach they must be part of the team rather than telling him so.
    Remember Gilbert was pett's choice forced on farmer, well atleast it's commonly accepted as a fact and makes sense. not so great. I disagree about the head coach being able to have a say, the extreme is chip kelly, i'd prefer the opposing extreme and just have a good GM make all the selections without pressure from the owner (aka the cowboys) or hc (browns,eagles)

    2012 Barking Hard Pick'em Champion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by manzielthetruth View Post
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    @JManziel2 announced qbotf.
    #BailForBosa 1stpick

    Urban brings title to OSU then Browns 2017 in year two

    @cantguardmike michael thomas 32ndpick

    #Braxton4OSUqb
    braxton miller 65thpick
    He needs groomed at QB behind Manziel in offseason and preseason. In-season.....wr and rb. Wildcat QB

    Noah spence
    Sterling shepard
    Devante booker utah


    We need a linebacker thats going to fill backside gaps,blitz qb n sack n ff, int passes, and lead the D with atritude n huge hits.
    Why does DawgsDefense have two accounts here?
    Inexplicable 2016 Barking Hard Pick 'Em Champion

    "Thus we say, 'He ne'er contends, And therein is his might.'" - Lao Tzu, passage 68 of the Tao Te Ching, foretelling of the Cleveland Browns

    Cleveland autograph count: 85 Browns, 165 Indians, 12 Cavs, and 36 Lumberjacks/Barons/Crunch/Force. 298 total.

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