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  1. #25
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    He went to watch his Aggs get toasted by Auburn.

    So what?

    JFF will always be cursed as far as the media and social media goes.

    Seriously. . . we have no idea what he went to rehab for (my suspicion is coke). And he seems to not be too worried about saying he's had a few drinks (like he told the cops in the gf incident).

    So what he has a bottle of beer in his hand. So long as he stays committed to learning the craft, and by all accounts he has, who cares what he does on his off days.

  2. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Manziel's doing everything humanly possible to make this harder than it needs to be.

    Is he being advised by anyone of quality? If so, does he listen?

    Bottom line here: he's trying to do something the average 22 year old simply never has a chance to do. An incredibly rare, almost statistically unique, job opportunity that has the potential to generate massive wealth, fame, and future opportunity. It merits a highly disciplined, serious approach.

    For starters, simply not showing up on social media drinking with college kids would not seem to be too much to ask. It falls into the commitment and trust categories. Yeah, I know, there's nothing illegal or outrageous about the picture/situation. That apologist rational just misses the point.

    Think of it this way: He went ahead and tossed this on the resume to his coaching staff who's trying to figure out who to start this Sunday. A better move might have been to get away for a day, if he absolutely was "burned out" (that would be a red flag for me anyway), and go play a round of golf somewhere warm. Get back to Cleveland and tell Flip and O'Connell that he wanted to bunk with them to double down on his film study and game prep.

    The nagging red flags just continue to rise up.
    He's improved quite a bit actually. Apparently he's still drinking and partying but he's at least grown and matured enough not to take moronic selfies holding alcohol or doing lines of coke.

  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Does anyone truly believe that Manziel doesn't have to develop a game from within the pocket? I guess I'll just start there with the serious question.
    Actually, Cam and RW are good examples of what good, young, athletic QBs go through early in their careers.

    His first couple of seasons, Cam was quick to bolt out of the pocket and run. Now he's learned how to be a good pocket passer and picks and chooses when he runs.

    Same for RW. He ran a lot more his first couple of seasons.

    JFF is going to do the same thing until he improves his pocket passing ability.

    I don't think it's fair to criticize him for leaving the pocket so much. . . yet.

    Pettine is 1000% correct that JFF needs to do better from the pocket. JFF's career depends on it. But until he has more experience in game situations, it's natural that he's going to panic before plays develop and bolt for a gain.

    I have no problem with that. And I have no problem with Pettine staying on him about sticking with his reads longer.

    If JFF can learn to be a better pocket passer, he can be a very effective QB in this league, but it's not going to happen overnight.

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    He went to watch his Aggs get toasted by Auburn.

    So what?

    JFF will always be cursed as far as the media and social media goes.

    Seriously. . . we have no idea what he went to rehab for (my suspicion is coke). And he seems to not be too worried about saying he's had a few drinks (like he told the cops in the gf incident).

    So what he has a bottle of beer in his hand. So long as he stays committed to learning the craft, and by all accounts he has, who cares what he does on his off days.
    Sure, maybe its so what Martin. I certainly hope that's the case; so what.

    However, considering my connection to JM as being a Browns fan I'm not cavalier about these things.

    Based on his history, you think its prudent to be "so what"? Makes no sense to me. If his rehab was substance-based, he's probably not being counseled to drink a few beers whenever he wants. The counseling is probably abstinence. We're not two weeks out from his incident with his girlfriend which is still under investigation.

    With all that, and the fact that he's not established himself as an NFL QB as yet, you'd counsel him to hit the college party scene? No big deal.

    And as for the committed to learning his craft thing, we really have no idea if he's given 110%. Clearly, he's improved. We've all seen that. However, he hasn't cracked the starting line-up. I know what I would have told him if I was his confidant: Do not party during the season. At all. Zero. 100% focus on this once in a lifetime opportunity. You will be haunted by it if you give anything less.

    Its a red flag man. No two ways about it for me. Remember, red flags don't mean failure just a "warning signal" that something may be amiss.

    I have to question his maturity/mental health/whatever. Not a good choice.

  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    Actually, Cam and RW are good examples of what good, young, athletic QBs go through early in their careers.

    His first couple of seasons, Cam was quick to bolt out of the pocket and run. Now he's learned how to be a good pocket passer and picks and chooses when he runs.

    Same for RW. He ran a lot more his first couple of seasons.

    JFF is going to do the same thing until he improves his pocket passing ability.

    I don't think it's fair to criticize him for leaving the pocket so much. . . yet.

    Pettine is 1000% correct that JFF needs to do better from the pocket. JFF's career depends on it. But until he has more experience in game situations, it's natural that he's going to panic before plays develop and bolt for a gain.

    I have no problem with that. And I have no problem with Pettine staying on him about sticking with his reads longer.

    If JFF can learn to be a better pocket passer, he can be a very effective QB in this league, but it's not going to happen overnight.
    I understand and agree with most of what you said. It actually supports the view I was putting forth and does not support some notion that Johnny can just be Johnny and succeed. At least for a period of time long enough for us to get anything out of him.

  6. #30
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    A bunch of ppl on other sites/forums have brought up new rehab programs that "Teach Moderation" instead of "Abstinence" and have found it to be more effective.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  7. #31
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    College campus' are the perfect place to hone your "moderation" skills as we all know.

    I think having rose-colored glasses on about these two recent non-football tidbits is dangerous if not negligent. Many of the same posters so quick to dismiss this would quickly turn on the organization if it turned out there actually was a fire from these tendrils of smoke. Damned if they do; damned if they don't. Manziel is not doing us "a solid" with this bullshit. Period.

    I hope its nothing. I hope the kid is our QBOTF. He's making it much harder to believe in him than it should be.

  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    He's making it much harder to believe in him than it should be.
    Because he went to watch his college team play a big game?

    Or because he allows a few hot girls to take a few selfies?

    I mean. . . if that's bad off-the-field behavior, he's doomed.

  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    you'd counsel him to hit the college party scene?
    That's a bit hyperbolic.

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    Because he went to watch his college team play a big game?

    Or because he allows a few hot girls to take a few selfies?

    I mean. . . if that's bad off-the-field behavior, he's doomed.
    Then he's fucking doomed I guess.

    He's being paid millions. He's a professional. There are countless "kids" his age working incredibly hard on their incredible talent to optimize their goals in life. (med students, athletes, artists, etc.; pick your favorite) Lots of them maybe even battling substance abuse problems. Let's stop pretending that partying at his college is a definite "no big deal". It might not be a big deal, sure; but your telling me that it definitely isn't and that he's doomed if he's not able to party during the season is the extreme position and seems more likely to be the that ends up with its proverbial head in the sand.

    I'll drop it as we're all able to be concerned about this or not. Put me in the concerned camp.

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    That's a bit hyperbolic.
    It is? Well, in my experience college drinking isn't the run of the mill "a glass of wine with dinner" kind of thing. Seems a bit pollyannaish to view it the other way, no?

  12. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Well, in my experience college drinking isn't the run of the mill "a glass of wine with dinner" kind of thing.
    He went to College Station to see the football game.

    Do you think any other NFL players go see their old college team play when they're off on a Saturday?

    Do you think any of them hang out at some old friends' apartments for a while before the game?

    That doesn't mean they are doing the old "college drinking" until they are in the gutter thing.

    All that said. . . sure. . . I wish he didn't have the beer bottle in his hand. But it's not like he had a joint or a rolled up bill in his hand.

    That would be concerning.

  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    It actually supports the view I was putting forth and does not support some notion that Johnny can just be Johnny and succeed. At least for a period of time long enough for us to get anything out of him.
    Right. . . too many people believe he can succeed just being Johnny. While his mobility and elusiveness can help him be a special player, it all depends on him developing QB skills a la Drew Brees, so he can play in then pocket or hurt you outside the pocket as well.

    Look. . . I'm a JFF fan, no doubt. I want him to succeed. But there's no doubt the jury is still way out on his ability to be a star NFL QB.

    We don't need a mediocre QB. We need a STAR QB.

    But we need to be patient. Him getting to play a few games in a row will give us a better picture of what he can grow in to.

  14. #38
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    A known alcoholic fresh from rehab having two drinking related occurrences within weeks of each other isn't concerning at all. Perfectly normal behavior for those trying to stay sober. Definitely responsible behavior for someone potentially facing suspension over alcohol related matters a few weeks ago. I am sure this wont impact Goodell's decision AT ALL and he will be fine. Alcoholics in remission sometimes go out partying every weekend, no biggie.

  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Kings View Post
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    A known alcoholic fresh from rehab having two drinking related occurrences within weeks of each other isn't concerning at all. Perfectly normal behavior for those trying to stay sober. Definitely responsible behavior for someone potentially facing suspension over alcohol related matters a few weeks ago. I am sure this wont impact Goodell's decision AT ALL and he will be fine. Alcoholics in remission sometimes go out partying every weekend, no biggie.
    He is not a "known alcoholic." No one knows why he went to rehab. If it was for drinking, the Browns would have freaked out over his admission to the cops he'd had a few drinks earlier in the day during the incident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Kings View Post
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    Definitely responsible behavior for someone potentially facing suspension over alcohol related matters a few weeks ago.
    If anything. . . he was facing suspension for domestic violence, not drinking.

  17. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangelo930 View Post
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    Did BDU decide to stop posting recently or something? That guy is awesome. Even if we disagree on things here, it should never be made personal. Hope he comes back.
    Yeah, don't know what happen, but I love your posts. Funny and straight forward. Come back Bro.

  18. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    but your telling me that it definitely isn't and that he's doomed if he's not able to party during the season is the extreme position and seems more likely to be the that ends up with its proverbial head in the sand.
    You're projecting. Standing next to a girl while drinking a beer and letting her take a selfie isn't exactly hitting the college party scene hard. Look at the picture. Does he look like he's been drinking a lot? Does he look wasted?

    I'm saying he's doomed because even bland pictures like those get blown out of proportion.

    I absolutely do not believe he can "party" like he was last season and be a successful QB.

    But there is no evidence he's partying hard like last year. By all accounts, he's been to work every day on time and ready to work his ass off. When that changes, put me in the concerned camp.

  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    He went to College Station to see the football game.

    Do you think any other NFL players go see their old college team play when they're off on a Saturday?

    Do you think any of them hang out at some old friends' apartments for a while before the game?

    That doesn't mean they are doing the old "college drinking" until they are in the gutter thing.

    All that said. . . sure. . . I wish he didn't have the beer bottle in his hand. But it's not like he had a joint or a rolled up bill in his hand.

    That would be concerning.
    Why do you bother, Martin? You are not going to change any minds that are already made up. I think he is a kid and he is going to be a kid. I hear he likes girls. I suppose that is a sin; maybe it would be better if he liked boys.

    By the way, the last I heard, some people were wanting him to breakup with Colleen since she was such a bad influence so here he is partying with wild A&M girls which would seem to indicate that he is over Colleen--and they are still unhappy with his choice of women. I don't get it.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    He is not a "known alcoholic." No one knows why he went to rehab. If it was for drinking, the Browns would have freaked out over his admission to the cops he'd had a few drinks earlier in the day during the incident.
    His alcoholism is well documented. Try again with your apologist revisionism.

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    If Jsh McCown can d fr us what he did for Tampa Bay the I say trade away manzeil....lets just move on. Its actually pathetic from a lot of different angles(negative and positive)
    just beat it

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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Kings View Post
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    His alcoholism is well documented. Try again with your apologist revisionism.
    Have to disagree, KoK. I have seen a lot of speculation, but I have seen no documentations unless you consider speculation written down to be documentation.

    I suppose, with that in mind, you might have a point.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

  23. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammertime View Post
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    If Jsh McCown can d fr us what he did for Tampa Bay the I say trade away manzeil....lets just move on. Its actually pathetic from a lot of different angles(negative and positive)
    What did he do for Tampa Bay that was so wonderful?
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

  24. #48
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    Cliff, you aren't concerned at all? Maybe I'm just getting old.

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