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Thread: Maybe why Browns staff not to keen to play Manziel

  1. #25
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    The light could go on for Johnny. Johnny could start taking his craft seriously. Granted.


    In the interim, it hasn't and he doesn't. On to the next one, and if Johnny eventually develops ....great.


    The fans don't need to see whether the kid has it or not. The coaches do. And that is seen on the daily by them.


    4 starts? Who cares. Hard work, and unflappable dedication is what Johnny needs to succeed. He either will get it, or he won't.

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedPagel View Post
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    Is going 6-10 going to make THAT big a difference over going 2-14? If those are my options I'd rather have the high draft pick. Even if they win out (yeah, I know, stop laughing for a minute please), 9-7 probably isn't going to be enough for a playoff spot.
    Honestly? If 6-10 included a team showing growth, the trio of owner/GM/HC showing alignment, I'd vote for that outcome. Now, if we fire Pettine in either scenario? I think I'd be less inclined for the better record over the better draft position.

  3. #27
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    Funny thing TBPP: Pettine mentioned in one of his pressers this week when asked about playing the young guys (re: more about guys other than Manziel) he made some version of the statement: "Nothing like game reps".

    Either Manziel is just that far behind McCown at this stage or there's something else going on.

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Funny thing TBPP: Pettine mentioned in one of his pressers this week when asked about playing the young guys (re: more about guys other than Manziel) he made some version of the statement: "Nothing like game reps".

    Either Manziel is just that far behind McCown at this stage or there's something else going on.
    I caught that comment too, Grey. Completely threw me for a loop. Also threw me for a loop when he said it was time to see what they had in their young guy, referring to Glenn Winston. Just wanted to smash my head in a door.

  5. #29
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    I've come to the conclusion that JFF isn't going to make it in Cleveland.

    If he doesn't play. . . the coach knows he's not any good.
    If he plays and misses some open reads. . . he's too short and will never be able to play in the NFL.
    If he plays decent. . . he should have played better.

    He can't win. All young NFL QBs struggle: Peyton, Carr, Bortles, ALL OF THEM.

    It tales time to develop a young QB.

    It seems as if most of you guys expect him to be great right away.

    HE"S NOT GOING TO EVEN BE GOOD RIGHT AWAY.

    Carr is a good example. He was terrible at times last season. The Raiders stuck with him. Look at him now.

    All this film breakdown of what he missed in the Cincy game shouldn't surprise anyone.

    For one. . . he was under tremendous pressure from their pass rush the whole game. He evaded it nicely in the first half.
    But he's got to get used to that kind of pressure. It's hard to make reads when the pocket is collapsing all around you.

    I believe JFF can be a very good pro QB, but he needs to go to a team that will give him a chance to develop.

    All this speculation about whether or not he can play at this level is silly until he has a chance to play more than one start at a time.

    He has played pretty good in his two starts this season -- head and shoulders better than last season, which isn't saying a lot.

    Some of this, a lot really, is on him for his behavior last season. No one to blame for last year but JFF.

    Perhaps it's best if we just cut him so he can go to Dallas and learn under Romo for a couple of seasons and we can draft another rookie QB and then claim he can't play in the NFL if he's not great right out of the box.

  6. #30
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    BDUs breakdown clearly lacked an agenda

    I can't say the same for this article

  7. #31
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    BDU is not a NFL vet of 7 years. I love him, but come on PGL.

    Again, there really is not much to argue when it comes to the tape. There was some positive spin we could weave to make ourselves feel better about Johnny, but he is a long way off.

    As far as "game reps" Grey ...yah I heard that too. And it's obviously true, but you need to be able to run a functional offense and have the basics down in order to grow on the field of play ...otherwise all that you are doing is developing bad habits.

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
    - Paul Brown

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammertime View Post
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    I would feel better if I knew for a fact that it was Haslam who demanded JM be drafted.
    What's the Difference now ?
    if he did Jimmy undermined Farmer. if he did not Farmer blew his pick.
    Pettine was undermined last year. they both must go anyhow you cut it. who really wants to watch another year of this mess ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Pettine and Farmer gotta be fired one second after the season ends! Thank you!
    Here we agree
    Always remember sports are like women:
    High School all the girls play,
    NCAA only good looking girls play,
    Pro's only the Super Models play !

    the most important reading you might ever do.
    http://web.archive.org/web/201607010.../genescott.htm

  9. #33
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    I should make the addendum that I am for Johnny starting, as I have been all season. But Pettine has a job, and that is to put his team in the best position possible to win football games, so I get where he is coming from.

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
    - Paul Brown

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Duh! How can one make good decisions when you are looking downfield and nobody is open!!!!!!
    This makes me think you didn't even skim, let alone, read the article that Masters posted. If you did you would see that Manziel had guys open and just missed them.

    These are all examples straight from that article.



    Hit Duke and that's at least a solid gain of 7 or 8 yards.



    Again, hit Benji right away and that could turn into a big play given Benji's speed.



    Holy fuck this is one of the worst out of the whole article. Duke is wide open and has two guys who could potentially turn into blockers right in front of him.



    I GUESS you can say the safety is lurking but this should be an easy TD. This was the play where Manziel scrambled around then ultimately got the TD to Duke. Yeah, awesome that we got the TD, but the easier play is right in front of him.


    This kid doesn't have it. Admit it. Move on. The Browns will gain nothing by trying to force this shit to happen.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

  11. #35
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    Ok when I think of Johnny and our smurf receivers.. I think of midgets playing in a cornfield trying find each other... No.. I didnt think that up.. I saw it posted elsewhere on another forum.. but it makes sense.. Fuck Johnny.. We cant dump this distraction fast enough.
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



    Its Offense baby!!!!!" "ITS
    OFFENSE!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    BDU is not a NFL vet of 7 years.
    "Retired NFL defensive end Stephen White took a closer look at Johnny Football's big game against the Bengals last week and found a young quarterback who isn't ready to start."

    So a retired defensive end who few have even heard of is the gold standard of breaking down film of a young QB?

  13. #37
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    Call Jerry Jones late Sunday night if they lose. $$
    Always remember sports are like women:
    High School all the girls play,
    NCAA only good looking girls play,
    Pro's only the Super Models play !

    the most important reading you might ever do.
    http://web.archive.org/web/201607010.../genescott.htm

  14. #38
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    That's your hyperbole Martin. No one anywhere said he is the "gold standard" of anything. But I surely would research his findings and film break down over yours, for example. He played the game most of his life. Made it to a level few do. Yah, I would say he has an idea of what he is talking about.

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
    - Paul Brown

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    That's your hyperbole Martin. No one anywhere said he is the "gold standard" of anything. But I surely would research his findings and film break down over yours, for example. He played the game most of his life. Made it to a level few do. Yah, I would say he has an idea of what he is talking about.
    Sometimes one has to explain stuff. good job lol
    Always remember sports are like women:
    High School all the girls play,
    NCAA only good looking girls play,
    Pro's only the Super Models play !

    the most important reading you might ever do.
    http://web.archive.org/web/201607010.../genescott.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    He played the game most of his life. Made it to a level few do. Yah, I would say he has an idea of what he is talking about.
    He was a defensive end. How does that qualify him as an expert breaking down film of a QB?

    He's a journalist now, not a QB expert.

  17. #41
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    I'm sure many didn't, but I read this article top to bottom. My biggest complaint about the article is that the guy writing it wrote it in a manner that portrayed a bias against Johnny. The language he used and the method he presented his information. Because of that I'm not surprised that any Johnny fan would write this off as Johnny bashing and not finish the article. I mean, if someone came up to you and said 'you're an idiot, can't you do anything right' you're going to get defensive. If someone came up to you and said 'thanks for trying, here are some things I think you can do better' you're going to be a lot more interested in listening.

    Beyond that, I think the stuff he presented in the article are very valid points. There were open receivers that Johnny didn't recognize, so he was making the job harder on himself. This isn't a matter of him not being able to see because he's short. It's a matter of him calmly thinking and knowing where to look! On the 'hot read' to Benjamin, Manziel should be able to make that pass with his eyes closed. . . only if he makes the decision to do so. He knows where Benjamin will be!

    I think this article is very eye-opening about the areas where Johnny needs to develop. The people who read this article and say Johnny sucks and needs to be cut are also way off base. After 4 starts, there is no way we can say that he can't learn these things.

    With reps in practice and games, and coaching, he's going to learn where he made these mistakes and learn from them. I'm sure he sat down with coaches and went through the same film, these same plays. He knows he made mistakes and missed opportunities.

    The true gauge for whether he can be an effective and/or good NFL quarterback will be seeing how he learns from these mistakes, how he adjusts going forward. If after 12-16 starts he's still making all of the same mistakes, then we begin to accept that maybe he won't figure it out and it's time to move on.

  18. #42
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    I don't think you need 12-16 starts to determine if you have a franchise QB F. In some cases they eventually develop, but usually you see "it" pretty quickly.

    If you can't pick up basic football principals, and show the inability to see the entire field ...that is troubling to say the least.

    I am also not sure why people are talking about Johnny being short. Nobody said anything about it. (maybe the author did) The only reason people are bringing up him not being able to see the field is because Johnny himself made that admission yesterday or the day before.

    We need a blue chip QB, that's all I know, and I don't believe anyone anywhere looks at Johnnies play and sees one.
    Last edited by TheBestPlayersPlay; 11-13-2015 at 10:39 AM.

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
    - Paul Brown

  19. #43
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    The question is not did JFF miss seeing open receivers in the Cincy game? He clearly did.

    The question is will he miss fewer in his next start, will he improve? Can he improve?

    If McCown plays this week, we won't find out. JFF needs several starts in a row so these questions can be answered.

    Maybe the Browns have seen enough of him in practice and don't believe he can play in the NFL.

    If that's the case, they will cut him at the end of the season.

    But seeing him play this season, it appears to me he doesn't completely suck like last year.

    If badly beat up McCown plays this week, it's pretty clear the Browns have given up on JFF ever being a franchise QB.

  20. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    We need a blue chip QB
    This team wouldn't make the playoffs with Tom Freaking Brady at QB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Give Manziel Amari Cooper, Murray at RB and an Oakland line that can block for the run and the pass better than Cleveland's,
    But AO he doesnt have those things. Neither does McKown. So if snickers is a future hof'er he should be able to run right by a journeyman qb....shouldnt he? Now I know its time to roll out its Pettines fault, it's the wr's fault it's the olines fault etc. Firing Pettine is world class stupid as who the hell would ever want to come here as a coach? We were hard pressed to get him. Farmer on the other hand we can fire today with no ill effects.

    The team has been in free fall since farmer got here. He has missed on 4 count them 4 first round draft picks. How is that even possible! I would be ok if farmer terminated today, Pettine on the other hand needs time and a GM who understands what he needs to run his scheme.

    Back to snickers.... the flashes you see are far overshadowed by all the misses and bad plays on the field and all the bs off the field. Before he was drafted I said he was cancer....he's done nothing to change that opinion. He belongs in dallas with a locker next to greg hardy.
    If you don't watch the games yourself and only parrot what the talking heads say YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WRITE THAT I CARE TO READ BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ASSHAT. i mean that in the best way possible of course. At the behest of a much respected one here I have altered my sig. Will he notice? :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    I don't think you need 12-16 starts to determine if you have a franchise QB F. In some cases they eventually develop, but usually you see "it" pretty quickly.

    If you can't pick up basic football principals, and show the inability to see the entire field ...that is troubling to say the least.

    I am also not sure why people are talking about Johnny being short. Nobody said anything about it. (maybe the author did) The only reason people are bringing up him not being able to see the field is because Johnny himself made that admission yesterday or the day before.

    We need a blue chip QB, that's all I know, and I don't believe anyone anywhere looks at Johnnies play and sees one.
    Totally disagree with that statement. A lot of QBs have had terrible rookie seasons. A guy named Manning comes to mind ...

  23. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownsfan1956 View Post
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    But AO he doesnt have those things. Neither does McKown. So if snickers is a future hof'er he should be able to run right by a journeyman qb....shouldnt he? Now I know its time to roll out its Pettines fault, it's the wr's fault it's the olines fault etc. Firing Pettine is world class stupid as who the hell would ever want to come here as a coach? We were hard pressed to get him. Farmer on the other hand we can fire today with no ill effects.

    The team has been in free fall since farmer got here. He has missed on 4 count them 4 first round draft picks. How is that even possible! I would be ok if farmer terminated today, Pettine on the other hand needs time and a GM who understands what he needs to run his scheme.

    Back to snickers.... the flashes you see are far overshadowed by all the misses and bad plays on the field and all the bs off the field. Before he was drafted I said he was cancer....he's done nothing to change that opinion. He belongs in dallas with a locker next to greg hardy.
    Maybe. I sometimes miss on players, but not a whole lot. Remember all the bashing I took for saying Terrence West and Isiah Crowell were mediocre.

    I think Pettine playing McCown this Sunday tells me he doesn't give a damn about giving Manziel experience in preparation for next year because this year may be his last shot at it. If Pettine could win half his remaining games after this Sunday he might keep his job. But that doesn't help the Browns determine if they need to take a QB in the 2016 draft. If Pettine gets fired after week 10 it could be more because of his unwillingness to see what the team has in Manziel. But I think he stays the season.

    BTW, I haven't seen that Snickers commercial for awhile!
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 11-13-2015 at 10:55 AM.

  24. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    It seems as if most of you guys expect him to be great right away.
    Martin, that hasn't been the theme here. Most of the critical comments I read (and post) are in response to overly favorable reviews of Manziel. I think most here give him a solid "incomplete" in terms of his viability. How could it really be any other way for us, as fans, considering how little we've seen him play? He does look more comfortable this year. He looks better.

    The missed reads are classic inexperience things. Again, I fully agree with you. Its likely the primary reason McCown's gotten more raw production when he's played; experience. I like what I've seen of his arm so far, but need to see more in terms of his ability to hit small windows. I love what I've seen of his athleticism this year. Its proven to me it does translate to the NFL. Its arguably elite "icing" in terms of an NFL QB's cake.

    The huge struggle, I'd wager, for all of us is simply: Why isn't he playing more? Many want to make big assumptions here either way: a) the coaching staff is incompetent or b) Manziel really sucks. The most likely scenario isn't either of those two but some variant on Manziel's development, their plan for his development, the staff lacking belief that he's shown them enough to be "the guy", or such.

    Its highly ambiguous for us; that's for sure.

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