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Thread: Maybe why Browns staff not to keen to play Manziel

  1. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    BDU gave a much better review than that asshats article.

    That shit is more slanted than a 2 legged table
    You don't like it because you love Johnny. The reality is a lot of what he saying is correct; although the delivery is harsh.

    We aren't winning anything with Johnny under center...ever. It was destined to fail from the beginning because the kid simply doesn't have it between the ears...or the ability to play QB in the NFL.

    I would say the quicker this experiment is over the better; but honestly, there is so much wrong with the organization that cutting/trading/stuffing Johnny in a locker is like giving a whale a tic-tac.
    Last edited by The_QCT; 11-13-2015 at 04:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceWayne View Post
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    Big Ben vs. the Bengals one week before Manziel

    28-45 262 yards 5.8 avg. 1 td 3 int 3 sacks 23.3 QBR 57.8 passer rating

    Johnny
    15/33 168 5.1 1 0 3-24 71.8 71.3

    Manziel far superior QBR and passer rating.

    Please break down the game film on Ben. How many years has he been in the league?

    Manziel played much better against the Bengals than Ben.
    I watched some of the Bengals-Steelers game and I would agree!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    Can Drew Brees?

    Can Russell Wilson?
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......

    Did you really bring up those two in a conversation about Manziel? Those two have more football acumen and brains in their pinky fingers than Manziel has in his entire head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_QCT View Post
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    Did you really bring up those two in a conversation about Manziel? Those two have more football acumen and brains in their pinky fingers than Manziel has in his entire head.
    You know what's in JFF's head?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_QCT View Post
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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......

    Did you really bring up those two in a conversation about Manziel? Those two have more football acumen and brains in their pinky fingers than Manziel has in his entire head.
    Agree, but why rule out a kid QB who has only started 4 games? I do not expect Johnny to be as good as Wilson or Brees but maybe he could get to near average starter level. If it would be possible, it would be the best the Browns have seen in a long, long time!

  6. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masters View Post
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    I have not seen a game film breakdown of Ben's game against Cincy to really say so. Of course one has really nothing to do with the other. Nor would that even be a fair comparison for JM considering where each guy is today in their respective careers and developments, which are very different path. Not to mention you are talking completely different teams playing each other, which means game plans, all personal, etc. are going to be different. I would venture a guess that Ben wasn't missing simple/basic reads and concepts.

    I think someone in this thread or the mega mentioned Shaw in some way as if to knock Pettine. I would venture a guess that some of these basic concepts are things Shaw was not missing during his start last year.

    The thing is, most of these are concepts and reads those who have played in a structured offense already understand. I am not even being factious when I make mention that those things in the breakdown are literally taught in the Madden video games. They have in those games actual training which walk you through those route combinations and reads. None of it means that at some point Manziel could not succeed, only that where he might be as far as understanding today, in part because his whole life he played outside of structured offense, is a lot further off. That then may explain the reluctance to play him in place of McCown, as being that far behind the curve today can be detrimental to the other 10 guys playing on O.
    You are not likely to see a game film breakdown on Roethlisberger's game.

    The simple fact is that anybody who goes to that much trouble has an something in mind: a purpose. I think it is fair to ask what that purpose might be.

    There would obviously be no purpose in a breakdown of Roethlisberger's game. Nobody questions his game. Create a breakdown in which you attempt to prove that he had a bad game (or a good one) and who would care? We all know what he can do and what he is likely to do in the future. We all know that Roethlisberger is an upper level quarterback.

    As for the breakdown of Manziel's game, one merely has to ask it intended purpose in order to understand the reaction by members of the forum. As for BW's question, BW quoted some stats earlier in the thread which showed that Manziel had a better passer rating and a better QBR. I doubt that detailed breakdowns, whether slanted or not, would tell you much more than those stats.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    If you think I am going to detail all the instances of Manziel bashing on this board for both on and off the field shit over the last couple of years, you are crazy. I would be here all day. And who would care? Suffice it to say that some people like him and some don't. And it appears that some of those that don't like him love to trash him.
    I simply did not know if you were isolating your comment to the board, the media, nor did I follow the context of it. Especially since earlier you referred to the article and stated "a slanted breakdown by some agenda driven defensive genius"

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_QCT View Post
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    You don't like it because you love Johnny. The reality is a lot of what he saying is correct; although the delivery is harsh.
    I wouldn't call the delivery "harsh". I simply took the delivery as attempting to put some levity and humor to make the read entertaining. Maybe I am able to just separate the breakdown part from the "entertainment" part of the article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    You know what's in JFF's head?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_QCT View Post
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    Did you really bring up those two in a conversation about Manziel? Those two have more football acumen and brains in their pinky fingers than Manziel has in his entire head.
    Yes. . . yes I did. Regarding his ability to see from the pocket. He's a little taller than RW and a little shorter than Drew Brees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Masters View Post
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    I simply did not know if you were isolating your comment to the board, the media, nor did I follow the context of it. Especially since earlier you referred to the article and stated "a slanted breakdown by some agenda driven defensive genius"
    I say a lot of things on this messageboard. Most of it is self-consistent, I think, but I guarantee nothing.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    I saw the Steeler/Bengal game.

    Ben played real bad.

    But let's get something straight. . .

    Ben was in command of that offense. He just made several bad decisions and throws.

    JFF is not in command of the Browns offense. He has a long way to go.

    To compare the two's efforts against Cincy is silly.

    I'm a JFF fan, no doubt. Would love for him to lead the Browns to glory.

    I want to see if he can. I have given Pettine and the Browns' FO some support, hoping the slow road to starting was their plan all along and that JFF, in the meantime, was getting to watch and learn from McCown (who has played really well, all considered).

    I hope that the plan was to let the offense grow under McCown so it's better when JFF does step in.

    Perhaps we Manziel fans are just too anxious to see him play and need to keep the faith a bit longer.

    I don't believe the theory that the Browns have seen enough of his abilities in practice to have decided he isn't the guy.

    If he does start this week, he needs to show improvement. Or the Manziel haters will really go off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    I saw the Steeler/Bengal game.

    Ben played real bad.

    But let's get something straight. . .

    Ben was in command of that offense. He just made several bad decisions and throws.

    JFF is not in command of the Browns offense. He has a long way to go.

    To compare the two's efforts against Cincy is silly.

    I'm a JFF fan, no doubt. Would love for him to lead the Browns to glory.

    I want to see if he can. I have given Pettine and the Browns' FO some support, hoping the slow road to starting was their plan all along and that JFF, in the meantime, was getting to watch and learn from McCown (who has played really well, all considered).

    I hope that the plan was to let the offense grow under McCown so it's better when JFF does step in.

    Perhaps we Manziel fans are just too anxious to see him play and need to keep the faith a bit longer.

    I don't believe the theory that the Browns have seen enough of his abilities in practice to have decided he isn't the guy.

    If he does start this week, he needs to show improvement. Or the Manziel haters will really go off.
    Yes, for the sake of civil conversation on this messageboard, it would be a good idea for Johnny to play well (if it is true that he is starting).

    BTW, except for your declaration of support for Pettine and your hope for the slow road to starting, I find myself in agreement with every single point you made. (As for that point, I think Pettine was hoping to win with McCown and avoid playing Manziel at all.)
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Starting mccown...and we lose

    Pettine and oneil need to be fired.

    Manziel needs reps and work with oconnell and flip. Manziel needs the team and coaches support and dedication. No team ever has drafted qb and not played them or practiced them.

    Manziel on alot of other teams is a very good qb after reps.


    He hasnt had one month of reps with first team not in competition

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Agree, but why rule out a kid QB who has only started 4 games? I do not expect Johnny to be as good as Wilson or Brees but maybe he could get to near average starter level. If it would be possible, it would be the best the Browns have seen in a long, long time!
    Is your goal the Super Bowl? Or is your goal 7-9, 8-8? An average starter gets us the latter...at best.

    Manziel can't even get to Bridgewater/Carr level. Seriously, putting any further stock in this bust shows a complete ineptitude and incapability of being able to do the job at this level by both Farmer and Pettine. Enough is enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Masters View Post
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    I wouldn't call the delivery "harsh". I simply took the delivery as attempting to put some levity and humor to make the read entertaining. Maybe I am able to just separate the breakdown part from the "entertainment" part of the article.
    It's not harsh at all for me - the delivery couldn't be harsh enough to proper articulate how terrible and what a bust that kid is.

    I just meant harsh for the Johnny lovers who are constantly swinging from his nut sack. You know they are sensitive to any criticism of the kid.

    The Manziel pick makes the Mike Junkin pick look genius. SMH....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    I saw the Steeler/Bengal game.

    Ben played real bad.

    But let's get something straight. . .

    Ben was in command of that offense. He just made several bad decisions and throws.

    JFF is not in command of the Browns offense. He has a long way to go.

    To compare the two's efforts against Cincy is silly.

    I'm a JFF fan, no doubt. Would love for him to lead the Browns to glory.

    I want to see if he can. I have given Pettine and the Browns' FO some support, hoping the slow road to starting was their plan all along and that JFF, in the meantime, was getting to watch and learn from McCown (who has played really well, all considered).

    I hope that the plan was to let the offense grow under McCown so it's better when JFF does step in.

    Perhaps we Manziel fans are just too anxious to see him play and need to keep the faith a bit longer.

    I don't believe the theory that the Browns have seen enough of his abilities in practice to have decided he isn't the guy.

    If he does start this week, he needs to show improvement. Or the Manziel haters will really go off.
    Manziel not in command of the Browns offense? Nonsense ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_QCT View Post
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    Is your goal the Super Bowl? Or is your goal 7-9, 8-8? An average starter gets us the latter...at best.

    Manziel can't even get to Bridgewater/Carr level. Seriously, putting any further stock in this bust shows a complete ineptitude and incapability of being able to do the job at this level by both Farmer and Pettine. Enough is enough.
    I really don't think we know anything about Manziel yet, because guys like Bridgewater and Carr have much better talent around them to help them out, because they have GMs with IQs over 50, which Ray Farmer does not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    I really don't think we know anything about Manziel yet, because guys like Bridgewater and Carr have much better talent around them to help them out, because they have GMs with IQs over 50, which Ray Farmer does not!
    The "we don't know anything about Manziel yet" is a a terrible take - and one I expect from a novice who knows nothing about football...not you.

    it doesn't take 10, 20, 30 games to know what you have. The coaches have seen him every day for a year and a half. They know what they have. The question is do they believe there is room for improvement.
    Last edited by The_QCT; 11-14-2015 at 09:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_QCT View Post
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    The "we don't know anything about Manziel yet" is a a terrible take - and one I expect from a novice who knows nothing about football...not you.

    it doesn't take 10, 20, 30 games to know what you have. The coaches have seen him every day for a year and a half. They know what they have. The question is do they believe there is room for improvement.
    Disagree with "it's a terrible take." Christ, the kid has no blocking -- stats show Browns among the worst in the NFL in run blocking and pass blocking -- and the Browns receiving corps and running corps are NFL bottom 5. In fact, I think the kid has done decently given the handicaps he is working under.

    People on this board who have watched football a long time should be ashamed of themselves for judging whether a young QB is good or a washout after such a limited sample of playing time. Outrageous!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    I really don't think we know anything about Manziel yet, because guys like Bridgewater and Carr have much better talent around them to help them out, because they have GMs with IQs over 50, which Ray Farmer does not!
    I'll support the Ray Farmer comment for sure. Johnny on the other hand? Ok so we don't have a couple stud receivers but.......how is it McCown makes completions and at least keeps us in games while Johnny takes one look then takes off? No I've seen enough of jff and this joke of a front office.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_QCT View Post
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    The "we don't know anything about Manziel yet" is a a terrible take - and one I expect from a novice who knows nothing about football...not you.

    it doesn't take 10, 20, 30 games to know what you have. The coaches have seen him every day for a year and a half. They know what they have. The question is do they believe there is room for improvement.

    I can also tell your level of football acumen without having to read many of your posts and it certainly is not high. Johnny is not an NFL quarterback? List 64 quarterbacks that are currently better than Johnny, without even accounting for the maturation and development of a 22 year old, and I'll start to give credence to your words otherwise you're simply a bombastic blowhard.

    Prey tell, what did you know that the Giants had after 10 games of Eli? The Niners after 10 games of Kaepernick? The Falcons after a year of Schaub? The Bucs after a year of Steve Young? The Niners after 10 games of Alex Smith? The Packers after 10 games of Matt Flynn? The Broncos after 10 games of Cutler? The Jets after 10 games of Sanchez? I'll give you a hint..not much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NGgator60 View Post
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    I can also tell your level of football acumen without having to read many of your posts and it certainly is not high. Johnny is not an NFL quarterback? List 64 quarterbacks that are currently better than Johnny, without even accounting for the maturation and development of a 22 year old, and I'll start to give credence to your words otherwise you're simply a bombastic blowhard.

    Prey tell, what did you know that the Giants had after 10 games of Eli? The Niners after 10 games of Kaepernick? The Falcons after a year of Schaub? The Bucs after a year of Steve Young? The Niners after 10 games of Alex Smith? The Packers after 10 games of Matt Flynn? The Broncos after 10 games of Cutler? The Jets after 10 games of Sanchez? I'll give you a hint..not much.
    NG60, you just don't understand who you are talking to. OCT actually has claims of a brief association with scouting. If that sounds important, it is. He has no questions, only answers.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Dawg View Post
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    I'll support the Ray Farmer comment for sure. Johnny on the other hand? Ok so we don't have a couple stud receivers but.......how is it McCown makes completions and at least keeps us in games while Johnny takes one look then takes off? No I've seen enough of jff and this joke of a front office.
    McCown is more experienced -- by about 10 years -- and that shows. But I maintain McCown is not a big play QB and has trouble in the red zone, despite his recent 3 TD performance, but the Browns are still among the worst in the NFL in red zone TD scoring.

    Despite his limited experience, I maintain Manziel presents more problems for a defense with his big play capability and scrambling ability.

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