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Thread: Worst Kept Secret in Berea: Pettine Doesn't Like Manziel

  1. #25
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    Screw Hoyer and his winning 10 of 16 games.
    not enough suffering 2- 10 without him ah this is better. The Twilight Zone of fandom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmadworld View Post
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    Screw Hoyer and his winning 10 of 16 games.
    not enough suffering 2- 10 without him ah this is better. The Twilight Zone of fandom.
    But I thought our losses were not on the QB? Its everybody else losing for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmadworld View Post
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    Screw Hoyer and his winning 10 of 16 games.
    not enough suffering 2- 10 without him ah this is better. The Twilight Zone of fandom.
    Hoyer is 2-4 in Houston. So far, he has beaten Jacksonville and Tennessee. Obviously a franchise QB.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    I disagree. I think the primary job of the head coach of a losing team is to build a winner.
    He doesn't seem to be doing that either...
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    He doesn't seem to be doing that either...
    Hi Captain Obvious!
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    He doesn't seem to be doing that either...


    You build a "winner" by drafting good players and giving them an offense and defensive philosophy they can "buy into"
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



    Its Offense baby!!!!!" "ITS
    OFFENSE!!!!!

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    Guess I wasn't so far off with my observations from day one

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgsDefense View Post
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    Guess I wasn't so far off with my observations from day one


    Quit acting like your so special.. You're not!
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



    Its Offense baby!!!!!" "ITS
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  9. #33
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    The point isn't just to win games now, which we aren't (McCown is 1-6). It's to BUILD a winner for the long haul.

    Biggest surprise: Even LaConfora is reporting that many within the organization believe Pettine's stubbornness about Manziel will be his undoing. LaConfora thinks Manziel has shown more than enough to start out the season and it should've had nothing to do with McCown's health. It just makes sense.

    If Manziel does anything but shit his pants, Pettine will be quietly ordered to keep him in there as the starter.

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    Hi Captain Obvious!
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

  11. #35
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    I could give two shits about what LaCanfora has to say about the Browns...

    That being said, I think most of us would agree that at this time it just makes no sense to continue with McCown. I think that some, if not many, would agree that Manziel has arguably been underwhelming in the limited play we have seen from him while McCown has been similarly underwhelming, he has been stable (maybe even overachieving by some standards but I have always argued his numbers are not worth much when he has won one game). The conundrum is compounded by a coaches resistance to go in on his young player. I don't know if the insider stuff has any merit but it doesn't need to. The facts are plain, this team has regressed terribly this season, any promise we had from last year has virtually eroded and that doesn't seem like building for the long haul.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

  12. #36
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    You know.. everyone is parading around this notion that Pettine has a "fools choice"

    Either start Mccown and possibly win games but do nothing for our future. Get fired.

    Or

    Start Johnny and loose games and lose his job.

    Wouldn't it benefit Pettine to start Johnny and try to WIN games? Wouldn't that be the best way to save his job?

    Prove that he is a good enough coach to win WITH Johnny?

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  13. #37
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    I don't understand the distinction. He's not starting Manziel with the intention of losing. He's trying, like every other franchise in football, to win the next game on his schedule. That's why he'd be starting McCown if he were healthy, right wrong or indifferent, because he believes McCown gives him the best chance to win. If he still thinks Manziel is the lesser QB for the next game on the schedule, how would he start him if his primary goal was to win the football game? Its a nonsensical argument as he'd have to elevate the future development of the team or whatever it might be AHEAD of the winning the game objective.

  14. #38
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    I'm not speaking in relation to his effort.. more or less his mentality

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  15. #39
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    But that's Grey's point. McCown represents the more likely option for 'winning' as per that is the goal of the game. If Manziel represented that, he would be starting. That is not to say that Manziel could continue to make a stronger case for himself by holding his own and playing well today. This is only his fifth start, and he is lightyears ahead of last season, relatively speaking, but I think that many overstate what he does well and tend to ignore what he struggles with. He is a young QB, and he does need some time 'in the shit' to get it. I just want to win, and I'd be happy if Manziel can pull that off.

    However, I don't think that either possibly winning games with McCown or Manziel is a fools choice, only in how you frame it. The crux of the issue is that you have a first round QB sitting on the bench for a mediocre veteran journeyman, and the younger inexperienced QB has not really played at a level to suggest he is a clearly better option. That's the dilemma.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

  16. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    The point isn't just to win games now, which we aren't (McCown is 1-6). It's to BUILD a winner for the long haul.

    Biggest surprise: Even LaConfora is reporting that many within the organization believe Pettine's stubbornness about Manziel will be his undoing. LaConfora thinks Manziel has shown more than enough to start out the season and it should've had nothing to do with McCown's health. It just makes sense.

    If Manziel does anything but shit his pants, Pettine will be quietly ordered to keep him in there as the starter.
    Seriously, Shep, I don't think anybody can order Pettine to do anything.

    They can either accept his decisions or fire him. He has a four year contract. (BTW, they are still paying Chud.)
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    But that's Grey's point. McCown represents the more likely option for 'winning' as per that is the goal of the game. If Manziel represented that, he would be starting. That is not to say that Manziel could continue to make a stronger case for himself by holding his own and playing well today. This is only his fifth start, and he is lightyears ahead of last season, relatively speaking, but I think that many overstate what he does well and tend to ignore what he struggles with. He is a young QB, and he does need some time 'in the shit' to get it. I just want to win, and I'd be happy if Manziel can pull that off.

    However, I don't think that either possibly winning games with McCown or Manziel is a fools choice, only in how you frame it. The crux of the issue is that you have a first round QB sitting on the bench for a mediocre veteran journeyman, and the younger inexperienced QB has not really played at a level to suggest he is a clearly better option. That's the dilemma.
    I don't believe it would be a dilemma for most coaches.

    Coaches generally need to win in order to keep their job. But an argument that he can't win without an upper level quarterback along with a strong effort to develop a first round quarterback that the owner and GM drafted for him would seem to give him more time to start winning than an argument that playing a 36 year old veteran that has no future gives him the best chance to win--particularly when those best chances typically turn into losses.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

  18. #42
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    I know, it's only a dilemma in the sense that this is Cleveland and QB controversy has predominated here for the better part of the last decade.

    I'd argue most any team is not going to win without an 'upper level QB' (and furthermore what constitutes that type of QB can be varied and dynamic) but we have not made a strong effort, or at least not in the eyes of many fans. Furthermore, we've heavily drafted for defense which does not seem to be conductive to an environment that will help a young QB thrive. You won't have any argument defending McCown from me, as I'm done watching Mr. Dink and Dunk play.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    Hoyer is 2-4 in Houston. So far, he has beaten Jacksonville and Tennessee. Obviously a franchise QB.
    Not right he's 2-2. and they are pretty dysfunctional.
    but who would know that ?
    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...H/HoyeBr00.htm
    One thing for sure he will be 10-6 for us the rest of my Life. without him starting over the past 3 years the Browns are 3- 23. check the sexing math.
    Always remember sports are like women:
    High School all the girls play,
    NCAA only good looking girls play,
    Pro's only the Super Models play !

    the most important reading you might ever do.
    http://web.archive.org/web/201607010.../genescott.htm

  20. #44
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    wrong thread lol
    Last edited by Crow; 11-15-2015 at 10:53 PM.

  21. #45
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    Haslam had a "talk" with pettine.

    If you want ur job....play manziel and fix the defense. I want to see wins and growth or u wont be here next year.

  22. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    But that's Grey's point. McCown represents the more likely option for 'winning' as per that is the goal of the game. If Manziel represented that, he would be starting. That is not to say that Manziel could continue to make a stronger case for himself by holding his own and playing well today. This is only his fifth start, and he is lightyears ahead of last season, relatively speaking, but I think that many overstate what he does well and tend to ignore what he struggles with. He is a young QB, and he does need some time 'in the shit' to get it. I just want to win, and I'd be happy if Manziel can pull that off.

    However, I don't think that either possibly winning games with McCown or Manziel is a fools choice, only in how you frame it. The crux of the issue is that you have a first round QB sitting on the bench for a mediocre veteran journeyman, and the younger inexperienced QB has not really played at a level to suggest he is a clearly better option. That's the dilemma.
    The problems with the offense aren't at QB. It's everywhere else! Midget receivers who can't help run block. A full back who is a joke. Having RBs run sideways parallel to the line and get creamed for losses when the team is inside the 20 yard line. Receivers who can't get open and don't stretch the field and don't require double coverage, freeing defenses to jam the line and blitz more. An offense line that is the worst in football in run blocking and not so hot in pass blocking.

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