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Thread: Gameday Thread Week 10 : Browns @ Steelers

  1. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Kings View Post
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    #FuckJoeyBosa.
    Somebody has a major hard on for the reigning National Champs, must've beat on your team at one point huh?
    On any given Sunday...it's why we play the game.

  2. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior8 View Post
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    Somebody has a major hard on for the reigning National Champs, must've beat on your team at one point huh?
    Mark May is a Browns fan, apparently.

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    #BailForBosa bandwagon
    #ManzielsTheTruth

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    Mark may is a bitch. He hates osu and knows theyre best team in country but wont ever admit it.

    Wants to talk shit about manziel but kid would make him look stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manzielthetruth View Post
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    Mark may is a bitch. He hates osu and knows theyre best team in country but wont ever admit it.

    Wants to talk shit about manziel but kid would make him look stupid.
    Mark May is another one of these media retards. Almost as bad as that ex-Steelers RB, Hodge, but nobody is that bad!

  6. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    Dismal defeat doesn't dim Johnny Manziel's day
    Alliterative asshole asks for absolute asskicking, all agree?

    Seriously, that headline makes me not want to read the article even though he's right.

    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    What's blocking? I follow the Browns and never see it on the offensive line!
    Bazinga!
    Inexplicable 2016 Barking Hard Pick 'Em Champion

    "Thus we say, 'He ne'er contends, And therein is his might.'" - Lao Tzu, passage 68 of the Tao Te Ching, foretelling of the Cleveland Browns

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  7. #79
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    I joined PFF hoping to get in on their play-by-play grading system to help me understand it. It wasn't there. Even emailed them, and they said they didn't offer their "Premium stats" any longer. Joining only gave you access to season long grades, so I punted.

    Well, it looks like this Hayden Groves kid has picked up on this deficiency, and even adds about a sentence or two about each pass attempt. Nicely done really, and at minimum, the deserves credit for the time and effort.

    Here it is. If I post it in the future (and many of you may have already seen it), I won't copy/paste the entire thing. But will this time. The highlights are in bold.

    http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/stor...ziel-pass-pass

    Johnny Manziel: Pass-by-Pass vs. Pittsburgh

    Final Grades:
    A+: 3 Throws (7%)
    A: 9 Throws (20%)
    A-: 9 Throws (20%)
    B+: 4 Throws (9%)
    B: 6 Throws (13%)
    B-: 4 Throws (9%)
    C+: 3 Throws (7%)
    C: 4 Throws (9%)
    C-: 1 Throws (3%)
    D: 1 Throws (3%)
    A-Range: 47% (21 of his 45 throws)
    B-Range: 31% (14 of his 45 throws)
    C-Range: 19% (8 of his 45 throws)
    D-Range: 3% of (1 of his 45 throws)

    Final Statistics: 33-45, 372 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 95.8 QB Rating


    Pass-By-Pass Analysis
    1. 2nd and 9
    Manziel nearly picked off on a passed tipped by Isaiah Crowell. Ball was late and behind Crowell, luckily incomplete.
    Grade: D
    2. 3rd and 11
    Manziel with a bullet to Travis Benjamin after going through his progressions and rolling to his left. Nice job by Manziel rolling and making an accurate throw for a 61-yard gain.
    Grade: A-
    3. 2nd and Goal
    Manziel looking through his progressions again, rolling out again, but this time can’t connect with Hartline. Threw it hard on purpose, as it bounced off Hartline’s hands. Dangerous throw but not a poor one.
    Grade: C
    4. 3rd and Goal
    Manziel with a nice throw to Benjamin while rolling left, but it was short of the goal line. It’s hard to blame Manziel for Benjamin not getting in the end zone, while he did a nice job of giving his receiver a chance.
    Grade: B-
    5. 2nd and 11
    Manziel can’t find Hartline on an iffy pass that flies by the receiver. Not a terrible throw, but not a great one either.
    6. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a quick pass to the left for a four-yard gain to Benjamin. Accurate, timely, but nothing too special.
    Grade: B
    7. 2nd and 6
    Manziel with a nearly identical throw to the one before it, but this time, it’s to Duke Johnson. Again, accurate and timely, but not special.
    Grade: B
    8. 2nd and 17
    Manziel to the right on a quick throw to Duke Johnson. Nice job staying in the pocket, making an accurate throw, by Manziel.
    Grade: B-
    9. 3rd and 14
    Manziel with a beautiful dart to Brian Hartline for a first down. 17-yard gain on a dart from the pocket, in which he stepped up and made an accurate throw to Hartline on a big third down play. Nicest throw of the game thus far.
    Grade: A
    10. 1st and 10
    Manziel rolled right and sought out Hartline again, but this throw was a little less accurate, falling incomplete. Hartline was open, but he simply put too much on it.
    Grade: C
    11. 2nd and 10
    Manziel to Hawkins for a quick hit to the right, but the throw was a little high. Hard to blame Manziel with the stature of Hawkins, but a bette throw probably gets him a bigger gain.
    Grade: C+
    12. 3rd and 11
    Manziel with a screen pass to Duke Johnson, who does the majority of the work. Not a bad throw by any means, and he did a nice job of letting the play develop, but nothing worthy of a great grade here.
    Grade: B
    13. 2nd and 14
    Manziel finds Barnidge for a big gain on second down. Again, a nice throw and a nice job of getting a big gain for first-down yardage.
    Grade: B
    14. 1st and 10
    Manziel from the gun, stays in the pocket and delivers an accurate strike to Barnidge for a short gain. This is Manziel doing a better job of taking what he’s being given, and delivering an accurate throw for a first-down gain.
    Grade: A-
    15. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a similar throw to Barnidge, who’s made himself quit the target today. Manziel continues to find his guy quickly and deliver quick, accurate strikes.
    Grade: B
    16. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a fantastic throw from the pocket to Andrew Hawkins on a slant. Had his guy from the beginning and hit him in stride. Of course, Hawkins fumbled, but that has little to do with Hawkins.
    Grade: A
    17. 3rd and 10
    Manziel from deep in the end zone just tried to get one down the field to Travis Benjamin, but coverage was there. He simply tried to do something to get the Browns out of their own end zone and did a nice job of keeping it out of the reach of a defender, though it fell incomplete and out-of-bounds.
    Grade: B-
    18. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a play-action fake, rolls right and delivers a strike to Travis Benjamin. A nice play call to get Manziel out of the pocket and into open space, so he can deliver a great pass to an open Travis Benjamin.
    Grade: A-
    19. 2nd and 17
    Manziel from the shotgun delivers a beautiful quick-strike pass to Brian Hartline for a first down. Again, a fantastic example of “taking what you’re given” and made a fantastic read.
    Grade: A
    20. 3rd and 2
    Manziel again from the gun, stays in the pocket and delivers another accurate strike to Barnidge for a first down. Very decisive in his decisions to this point and great in terms of arm-strength.
    Grade: A-
    21. 3rd and 18
    Manziel in another bad situation in terms of yardage, but finds Barnidge on a quick strike again. He’s doing a nice job of reading the defense and taking what he’s given. An accurate quick throw, though it just six yards short of a first down.
    Grade: A-
    22. 1st and 10
    Manziel from the gun with yet another quick strike, this time to Andrew Hawkins on the right. A repeat of plenty of the aforementioned throws.
    Grade: A
    23. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a play-action fake, which allows Manziel to roll right and deliver a strike to Brian Hartline for another first down. It’s obvious that Manziel is great when out of the pocket and it’s showing thus far.
    Grade: A
    24. 1st and 10
    Manziel dumps it off to Isaiah Crowell for five yards on first down. A better decision than a throw, but both were solid.
    Grade: B+
    25. 2nd and 5
    Manziel, from the gun, delivers a beautiful strike to Andrew Hawkins for a first down. Stayed in the pocket, set his feet, and put his powerful arm behind his third-straight first down throw. That throw was almost identical to his first-down strike to Brian Hartline in the first quarter.
    Grade: A+
    26. 2nd and 4
    Manziel throws it into the dirt by Travis Benjamin, after being chased around by Pittsburgh defenders. Stayed in the pocket for a bit, but had nothing down the field, forcing him to roll out and just toss it away.
    Grade: C+
    27. 3rd and 4
    Manziel tosses a screen pass to Duke Johnson for a first down. A better play call than a throw, but it was executed well, nonetheless.
    Grade: B-
    28. 1st and 10
    Manziel stands in the pocket and delivers a strike to Travis Benjamin on a slant. A beautiful throw and catch that gave the Browns a very manageable 2nd and 2.
    Grade: A
    29. 3rd and 5
    Manziel, again, does a nice job of staying in the pocket and delivering a quick strike to Brian Hartline over the middle for a first down. A nice throw to get the Browns closer to the end zone.
    Grade: A
    30. 2nd and GL
    Manziel is now making a trend of making great throws on short passes to shorten the distance between the sticks. This time, he receives the snap, gets pressure, but throws a dart to Andrew Hawkins over the middle for a short gain.
    Grade: A-
    31. 3rd and GL
    Manziel with another nice job of taking what he’s given, as he finds Hawkins from the pocket, over the middle, to get the ball closer to the end zone on 4th and goal.
    Grade: B+
    32. 4th and GL
    Manziel tries to stay in the pocket, but is flushed right, makes an iffy decision to throw the ball back over the middle and it’s intercepted. That being said, on fourth down and needing to score, Manziel had to put the ball in the end zone and had little else to do. A holding penalty would’ve called the play back in any case, so the play is essentially a wash.
    Grade: C
    33. 2nd and 5
    Manziel with a beautiful toss for an over-the-shoulder catch by Gary Barnidge for 6. It wasn’t a long throw, but it was a fantastic decision with perfect placement for the first TD of the day for the Browns. It was a one-step fade route to the right, executed to perfectin.
    Grade: A+
    34. 1st and 10
    Manziel, from the gun, stays in the pocket and delivers a strike to Travis Benjamin on a short crossing route. Again, nothing special, but he took what the defense gave him.
    Grade: B
    35. 2nd and 8
    Manziel finds Hartline wide open to the left, after scanning the field, for a 22-yard gain. Nice job by Manziel going through his options, setting his feet and making a strong, accurate throw to his receiver for a first down.
    Grade: A-
    36. 1st and 10
    Manziel delivers a strike to Taylor Gabriel for a big gain, but it’s a little high— remember, Gabriel is very small. It was a great decision and a great throw by Manziel for yet another first down.
    Grade: A
    37. 1st and 10
    Manziel stands in the pocket, from the shotgun, and goes through his progressions before finally finding Travis Benjamin on a beautiful pass to the right that flies just past the finger tips of a Pittsburgh defender. Again, a great job of setting his feet and delivering a strong-armed strike for a first down.
    Grade: A-
    38. 1st and 10
    Manziel tried to get another quick strike, but this was probably his worst decision of the day. He tossed it to Taylor Gabriel, but a defender was right there. He was lucky to have not been intercepted.
    Grade: C-
    39. 2nd and 10
    Manziel feels the pressure up the middle but stays in the pocket and makes a throw over the middle. It sails over the head of Gary Barnidge in the end zone and brings the Browns back to third down. Manziel faded backwards on the throw, likely due to the pressure, which forced the ball upwards and just out of the reach of Barnidge.
    Grade: C+
    40. 3rd and 15
    Manziel is flushed out of the pocket, thanks to a ton of pressure, and makes an awkward throw to Brian Hartline, who makes a great catch. Though the throw was a little risky, it got to where it needed to go. If they were up in the game, it wouldn’t be an advised throw, but down by 21 late in the fourth quarter, there’s no sense in not trying.
    Grade: B+
    41. 4th and 6
    Manziel with another quick-strike slant to the left to Taylor Gabriel, who holds on for the first down, despite being annihilated by Will Allen on the play. A very good, accurate throw by Manziel, and a good decision as well, but Gabriel wouldn’t make it back to the game after that hit.
    Grade: B+
    42. 1st and GL
    Manziel with a nice throw to Brian Hartline in the end zone that only he could catch, but he wasn’t able to bring it down. It had the touch and the accuracy, but Hartline could only get a hand on it.
    Grade: A-
    43. 2nd and GL
    Manziel with a beautiful, touchdown throw to Travis Benjamin on a slant… but the receiver drops the ball, as it hits him in the chest on the goal line. Manziel got absolutely zero help from his receiver, as he should’ve picked up his second touchdown of the game.
    Grade: A+
    44. 3rd and GL
    Manziel gets the snap and delivers a fade route to the back corner of the end zone, but no one is home. Probably a miscommunication on some level, but Benjamin made little effort to cross the goal line, much less get to the corner of the end zone.
    Grade: C
    45. 4th and GL
    Manziel flushed out of the pocket and forced to roll left, where he delivers a beautiful pass to a covered Gary Barnidge. Though he placed the ball where only Barnidge could get to it, the tight end couldn’t haul it in. Probably a better throw than a decision here, but either way, not good enough for a touchdown.
    Grade: A


    Overall: A-
    This was by-far Manziel's best game as a professional, as evidenced by both the numbers and the grades above. He not only was able to do the things for which he's known-- rolling out, throwing on the run, having a flair for the spectacular play-- but he was also able to take what the defense gave him, making quick, accurate throws and reads throughout the game. Of course, with his team's back to the wall for most of the afternoon, Manziel did make a couple of risky plays, but only one turned out to hurt his numbers. In any case, if he can put together these types of games throughout the rest of the season, the Browns may actually need to put stock into the idea that Manziel could be the man in Cleveland, at least heading into next season.
    Last edited by OconRecon; 11-16-2015 at 10:19 AM.
    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 EXTRA Draft picks: a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), a 5th (Chiefs/Cam) - 12 total
    2019 EXTRA picks: 7th rnd (w/ Coates)
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

    Draft countdown clock: http://www.draftcountdown.com/

  8. #80
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    Besides Manziel's progress, I think another positive for the season has been John DeFillipo. He's somehow managed to get decent offensive production out of two question marks at QB - one that is seen as a backup in the league and the other basically a rookie. This passing proficiency has been done with no true #1 or even #2 wideouts. Furthermore, the Browns lost Jordan Cameron last year - seen as a pro bowl type when healthy, and he's got Barnidge getting similar type of production from the TE spot. Problem with Barnidge is he doesn't block but that's beside the point of this post.

    Now the run game is another matter - continues to be a major problem and I'm not sure exactly what the problem there is. I think Deflip has been forced to use some of the passing game as a quasi replacement for lack of a run game which is why the QBs throw so much.

    I still don't think the passing game is great or anything - against a good defense they are not going to overcome the lack of talent. I just think this coach has done great with what he's had to work with and would really like to see what he can do with an upgrade in talent on that side of the ball.

  9. #81
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    The only thing that worries me about Flip.. is that last year Oakland had the worst run offense if im not mistaken.. Now that he's gone from there Oakland is much better.. and we are much worse in that category. However, hey, if he makes Johnny progress.. then Im down

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  10. #82
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    Another positive thing was spreading the wealth among many receivers.

    Receiving
    Cleveland
    REC TGT YDS
    Travis Benjamin 7 11 113
    Brian Hartline 6 9 77
    Andrew Hawkins 7 8 69
    Gary Barnidge 6 8 65
    Taylor Gabriel 2 3 26
    Duke Johnson Jr. 4 4 18
    Isaiah Crowell 1 2 4

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    I didn't know that PGL and agree it is a concern then. Sort of like how Pettine's defenses have been known to have issues vs the run.

    I just checked and Oakland was last in rushing in 2014 and 22nd this year so far. They've also increased YDS/A from 3.7 to 4.4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    The only thing that worries me about Flip.. is that last year Oakland had the worst run offense if im not mistaken.. Now that he's gone from there Oakland is much better.. and we are much worse in that category. However, hey, if he makes Johnny progress.. then Im down
    Well taken, PGL. If you think of the OLine, the constant pass blocking takes its toll. I have to think this line wants to dish out an equal dose of physicality while run blocking. It's bye week, so I hope they're able to balance it out. Right now, I think they're circled around the QB position. If they get those wagons circled around all 11, next game should be great.

    I wonder if Manziel has chatted with Bernie lately? Has Grossi had these two together on the airwaves, yet? Or, that crazy guy on a.m. radio

  13. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior8 View Post
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    Somebody has a major hard on for the reigning National Champs, must've beat on your team at one point huh?
    Typical Suckeye homer, thinking it has to do with some stupid rivalry shit. It has fuck all to do with team rivalries.
    Last edited by King of Kings; 11-16-2015 at 03:37 PM.

  14. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    The only thing that worries me about Flip.. is that last year Oakland had the worst run offense if im not mistaken.. Now that he's gone from there Oakland is much better.. and we are much worse in that category. However, hey, if he makes Johnny progress.. then Im down
    So this comparison doesn't really hold water, considering that Flip was the QB coach at Oakland, not OC (or even oline or RB coach for that matter).

    I think the issues with the running game are a combination of. . .

    1: The 'feature' back (Crowell) really isn't anything spectacular
    2: A change in OC and coaches and schemes from last year to this coupled with
    3: The loss of the O-Line coach at the beginning of this year
    4: Abandoning the run. . . I'm going to dig into this one a tad more. . .

    . . . There have been a few games where they came out with a balanced attack, and were having some success on the ground (nothing spectacular, but not horrible either. Then one thing led to another and they were behind and they spent the rest of the game (usually the entire second half) only passing the ball. There have been multiple games where they abandoned the run altogether, often because they had to. Just look at the pass attempts we've had this year. Yeah, sometimes we had to pass because the rush wasn't getting it done. . . but sometimes we just abandoned it altogether.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fooleeze View Post
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    So this comparison doesn't really hold water, considering that Flip was the QB coach at Oakland, not OC (or even oline or RB coach for that matter).

    I think the issues with the running game are a combination of. . .

    1: The 'feature' back (Crowell) really isn't anything spectacular
    2: A change in OC and coaches and schemes from last year to this coupled with
    3: The loss of the O-Line coach at the beginning of this year
    4: Abandoning the run. . . I'm going to dig into this one a tad more. . .

    . . . There have been a few games where they came out with a balanced attack, and were having some success on the ground (nothing spectacular, but not horrible either. Then one thing led to another and they were behind and they spent the rest of the game (usually the entire second half) only passing the ball. There have been multiple games where they abandoned the run altogether, often because they had to. Just look at the pass attempts we've had this year. Yeah, sometimes we had to pass because the rush wasn't getting it done. . . but sometimes we just abandoned it altogether.
    Excellent post that covers all the territory that needs to be covered. Except some would take exception the scheme has changed much for OL. The big story here is that the run blocking is about the worst in pro football!
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 11-16-2015 at 04:11 PM.

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    I have a caveat to your point..

    Although Flip wasnt the OC in Oakland.. he was a coach in that oakland offense, and thus the offense he learned while he was there, is most likely the offense he uses here. The "philosophy" is the same. On thing FLip said he wanted to change when he came here is to add some of the power concepts they were running in OAK to our zone scheme.

    I dont think it has worked so well. we really need to stick with the ZONE.. as our line is one BUILT for the ZONE

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I have a caveat to your point..

    Although Flip wasnt the OC in Oakland.. he was a coach in that oakland offense, and thus the offense he learned while he was there, is most likely the offense he uses here. The "philosophy" is the same. On thing FLip said he wanted to change when he came here is to add some of the power concepts they were running in OAK to our zone scheme.

    I dont think it has worked so well. we really need to stick with the ZONE.. as our line is one BUILT for the ZONE
    Based on what I have heard players say, what they are doing is similar to last year. But my observation is that it's a hybrid of sorts.

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    Read a couple interesting things.

    Ironically, I found a Raiders' article discussing the change in philosophy this past offseason when it comes to their OL. They went bigger. According to the article they went from having a relatively smaller OL to the second "heaviest" in the NFL at an average of 320.6 pounds per lineman.

    The Browns show up on that list near the bottom of the list at 26th (310.2).

    So, the Raiders struggled last year to run the football using a power blocking scheme (supposed?) with smaller OL. They've changed their personnel to fit their scheme this year and its worked.

    As we've discussed in the past it seems that most OL's run a mix of run blocking schemes but its logical that a predominate style exists for each as well. Sure seems like we should be taking advantage of the relative agility of our OL (Mack and Thomas for sure). We knew coming in we didn't have an OL filled with pancaking specialists. I'd like to hope Pet, Flip and crew can adjust.

    I also think Fooleze's point about game circumstances was very insightful. With our defense struggling to hold down scoring we've been in less than desirable situations for a running game being down 2+ scores as much as we have. Crowell, our de facto "lead" back, hasn't had more than 12 carries in all but two games this year. The two games he eclipsed 12 carries were:

    TN 15 for 72 (4.8 per)
    BAL 13 for 49 (3.8 per)

    There sure seems to be a volume challenge here. Another point: We've rushed the ball 131 times in the first half of games this year. In the second half? Just 87 attempts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Excellent post that covers all the territory that needs to be covered. Except some would take exception the scheme has changed much for OL. The big story here is that the run blocking is about the worst in pro football!
    I think the Browns would be better off going to a power blocking scheme, it's less complicated. I see too many plays where the o lineman doesn't anyone. I'm not as hard on Crowell as some on this board. When he's had holes, he being productive. A lot of times he's getting hit in the back-field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manzielthetruth View Post
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    Mark may is a bitch. He hates osu and knows theyre best team in country but wont ever admit it.

    Wants to talk shit about manziel but kid would make him look stupid.
    Mark May is a major Buckeye fan. I was watching ESPN while on the treadmill last night and it is clear that there is an OSU that he hates--but it isn't tOSU and it isn't Oregon State either.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

  21. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    Mark May is a major Buckeye fan.
    Lol wut
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    Mark May is a major Buckeye fan. I was watching ESPN while on the treadmill last night and it is clear that there is an OSU that he hates--but it isn't tOSU and it isn't Oregon State either.


    Just google "Ohio State Mark May" and have fun.

  23. #95
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    On a funny note, watch this video of the scramble by Manziel, but just focus on Erving trying to find someone to block for him.

    https://twitter.com/NFL/status/66598...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

  24. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by threesheets View Post
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    On a funny note, watch this video of the scramble by Manziel, but just focus on Erving trying to find someone to block for him.

    https://twitter.com/NFL/status/66598...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
    Haha nice, it's almost as if he was so shocked he initially done a decent job and once he had to commit to someone else he was lost.

    2012 Barking Hard Pick'em Champion!

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