View Poll Results: Did Johnny Manziel do enough today to earn his starting spot NEXT YEAR and for us NOT to draft a QB

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Thread: Johnny Manziel 33/45 73% comp 372 yds passing 17 yds rushing 1 PATD 1 INT - The beginning of the future?

  1. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    He's already showing his stuff... at 22:

    ESPN Stats & InfoVerified account ‏@ESPNStatsInfo Nov 17
    Johnny Manziel: 59.4 Total QBR in three starts this season.
    That's a higher QBR than Russell Wilson (56.6) and Cam Newton (52.9).

    That's a damn good number... and again, Manziel is the age of most rookies right now (22). That's mana in this league. Sessler (NFL.com) stated the obvious: Manziel has shown way too much on-field growth to be kept on the bench.

    Dar. Right now, today, he looks like an excellent value at #22.
    Manziel has plenty to learn but has shown promise and should play. The key will be the off-season: Will the new management group be smart enough to give the kid some good players to help him, like every other team is smart enough to do when they draft a top young QB talent!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Gotta love this board! Some here think the Browns OL is great even though they, including Joe Thomas, are 30th in run blocking and worst in the NFL in QB hits and sacks, and they think Teddy Bridgewater stinks and has contributed nothing at all to the Vikes who are in first place in the NFC Central with a 7-2 record with a second year QB and are averaging 24 points a game in their last 5 games while the Browns have averaged 13!

    I think a couple of these posters live in a parallel universe where reality is a lot different!

    Last edited by AttackOffense; 15 Hours Ago at 05:11 PM.
    Did I say Bridgewater has nothing to do with the Vikes winning? No, I didn't.
    I think TB is what most people thought he was going into the draft -- an okay QB.

    He lacks big time arm strength, but he is a smart kid who came from a pro-style offense and was certainly more ready to step in and play than was JFF (or Carr for that matter)

    But there's no way he has a better upside than JFF or Carr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    Did I say Bridgewater has nothing to do with the Vikes winning? No, I didn't.
    I think TB is what most people thought he was going into the draft -- an okay QB.

    He lacks big time arm strength, but he is a smart kid who came from a pro-style offense and was certainly more ready to step in and play than was JFF (or Carr for that matter)

    But there's no way he has a better upside than JFF or Carr.
    Plus hes a sissy with questionable leadership skills.. I dont want that sissyboi on My team.. hes a wussy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    Did I say Bridgewater has nothing to do with the Vikes winning? No, I didn't.
    I think TB is what most people thought he was going into the draft -- an okay QB.

    He lacks big time arm strength, but he is a smart kid who came from a pro-style offense and was certainly more ready to step in and play than was JFF (or Carr for that matter)

    But there's no way he has a better upside than JFF or Carr.
    LOL! So many inaccurate analyses of players on this board. It wouldn't surprise me if you are Ray Farmer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimBrowne View Post
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    Bridgewater is gonna be a good/middle of the pack QB but fuck him.

    During the draft process he made it clear that he didn't want to play here. Johnny at least wanted to come here and wanted to be the guy to turn this organization around.
    Browns and Teddy Tinyhands fans should read this over and over.

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    For what it's worth, PFF has our tackles ranked 2nd and 5th in the league, our guards sucking ass, and our billion dollar center 13th.

    Who would've thought that Barnidge and Schwartz might be our biggest keepers for next offseason? Barnidge has like 48 catches and is on pace to blow away Cameron's Pro Bowl numbers of two years ago. He's 30 but he'll still get paid very well on a three year deal. He got looks and he delivered, which people have been saying about him for years. In a "right now" league, I'd like to keep him.

    Why has Bitonio been so bad? Why has Mack been so mediocre? I have no idea. But something tells me neither is going anywhere. Nobody's gonna pay a middle of the pack center what we've already committed to him on a player option (DOH!). I was all for letting him walk. He's a center. You can find another.

    Starting line next year is Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Irving, and Schwartz. On paper, they should be the best line in football. Certainly the highest drafted and most expensive.

    You can win games with a league best defense and a dominant running game but nobody's done much without one of the league's best quarterbacks in the past 15 years. You hit your ceiling. Hell, the Vikings have done it several times, as have the Jets.

    I like Bridgewater fine. But the numbers are telling: He's not being asked to do very much and he's absolutely a Checkdown Charlie. I think he's well versed and accurate. Could you win it all with him? Maybe. I don't personally think so. He reminds me a lot of a healthy Chad Pennington. He has limitations.

    He doesn't have as much anything as Manziel, as far as talent. Manziel is a much better runner and has a much better arm. Like I said during the draft and will repeat now: TB was likely to come out of the gate faster with all that pro style experience... but over the longer haul (meaning just a few years), I think it'll be pretty evident Manziel is the far superior talent. I don't think it's really that close.

    Keep in mind, the Vikings agreed.

    Jamie retweeted Gordon's hurrays for "#2" during the last game. Gordon loves Manziel. If they both keep their heads straight and continue to mature, "Johnny, the Flash, and the Rabbit" will be a blast to watch next year. I don't think anybody would expect Gordon, Benjamin, Hawkins, or Barnidge to be anywhere but starting... but I'd still draft a WR early in two and keep Hartline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    For what it's worth, PFF has our tackles ranked 2nd and 5th in the league, our guards sucking ass, and our billion dollar center 13th.

    Who would've thought that Barnidge and Schwartz might be our biggest keepers for next offseason? Barnidge has like 48 catches and is on pace to blow away Cameron's Pro Bowl numbers of two years ago. He's 30 but he'll still get paid very well on a three year deal. He got looks and he delivered, which people have been saying about him for years. In a "right now" league, I'd like to keep him.

    Why has Bitonio been so bad? Why has Mack been so mediocre? I have no idea. But something tells me neither is going anywhere. Nobody's gonna pay a middle of the pack center what we've already committed to him on a player option (DOH!). I was all for letting him walk. He's a center. You can find another.

    Starting line next year is Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Irving, and Schwartz. On paper, they should be the best line in football. Certainly the highest drafted and most expensive.

    You can win games with a league best defense and a dominant running game but nobody's done much without one of the league's best quarterbacks in the past 15 years. You hit your ceiling. Hell, the Vikings have done it several times, as have the Jets.

    I like Bridgewater fine. But the numbers are telling: He's not being asked to do very much and he's absolutely a Checkdown Charlie. I think he's well versed and accurate. Could you win it all with him? Maybe. I don't personally think so. He reminds me a lot of a healthy Chad Pennington. He has limitations.

    He doesn't have as much anything as Manziel, as far as talent. Manziel is a much better runner and has a much better arm. Like I said during the draft and will repeat now: TB was likely to come out of the gate faster with all that pro style experience... but over the longer haul (meaning just a few years), I think it'll be pretty evident Manziel is the far superior talent. I don't think it's really that close.

    Keep in mind, the Vikings agreed.

    Jamie retweeted Gordon's hurrays for "#2" during the last game. Gordon loves Manziel. If they both keep their heads straight and continue to mature, "Johnny, the Flash, and the Rabbit" will be a blast to watch next year. I don't think anybody would expect Gordon, Benjamin, Hawkins, or Barnidge to be anywhere but starting... but I'd still draft a WR early in two and keep Hartline.
    Yes, a team that's about the worst in all of pro football in run blocking and protecting the QB has two players totally responsible for all this bad work while the other three are absolved.

    Looney toons ...

    Football Outsiders rates the Browns LAST in the NFL in run blocking and pass blocking.
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 11-21-2015 at 02:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    PFF has our tackles ranked 2nd and 5th in the league
    Have to say, after watching the poor O line protection for both teams on Thursday night, I don't feel that bad about our pass protection.
    2017 Draft picks:Left: #145, #175, #181, #185, #188
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    LOL! So many inaccurate analyses of players on this board. It wouldn't surprise me if you are Ray Farmer!
    Like yours on the following:
    Kaepernick
    Foles
    McCown
    Mallett
    Mettenberger
    all the NYJ QB's
    all the Buffalo QB's

    I could go on with all the players you said were better than our QB's....but it just gets redundant.

    You only remember your correct comments...but conveniently gloss over your inaccurate ones.

    Oh, and as for TB...his passer rating is lower than BOTH the Browns QB's...he has one of the lowest TD % in the league...barely a 1:1 TD to INT ratio.

    Sure...he is on a winning team...but that is PRIMARILY AP and the D.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Like yours on the following:
    Kaepernick
    Foles
    McCown
    Mallett
    Mettenberger
    all the NYJ QB's
    all the Buffalo QB's

    I could go on with all the players you said were better than our QB's....but it just gets redundant.

    You only remember your correct comments...but conveniently gloss over your inaccurate ones.

    Oh, and as for TB...his passer rating is lower than BOTH the Browns QB's...he has one of the lowest TD % in the league...barely a 1:1 TD to INT ratio.

    Sure...he is on a winning team...but that is PRIMARILY AP and the D.
    Yeah, you love your statistics without watching players play. Big mistake!

    With Bridgewater at QB the Vikes have enjoyed a remarkable turnaround despite having a bad offensive line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Like yours on the following:
    Kaepernick
    Foles
    McCown
    Mallett
    Mettenberger
    all the NYJ QB's
    all the Buffalo QB's

    I could go on with all the players you said were better than our QB's....but it just gets redundant.

    You only remember your correct comments...but conveniently gloss over your inaccurate ones.

    Oh, and as for TB...his passer rating is lower than BOTH the Browns QB's...he has one of the lowest TD % in the league...barely a 1:1 TD to INT ratio.

    Sure...he is on a winning team...but that is PRIMARILY AP and the D.
    Sorta like this from back in May?
    It's such a shame that Farmer did such an injustice by leaving this team in such a horrible position at QB with the old, terrible McCown and, if he gets hurt early, which is more likely than not, we get a confused kid just emerging from rehab. with nothing really behind either of them. Browns could have easily gotten a Geno Smith or Mettenberger or Sanchez, and by mid season we'll likely all be lamenting the fact that Farmer lacks the talent to understand the needs for a team at the QB position.
    I think we'd be lamenting something right now for sure if we'd gone out and gotten any of those guys who are so good they have a collective 96 passing attempts this year between them.

    Its one thing to prognosticate gracefully leaving open the dual possibility that one may be wrong and another may be right. Its another to do it with a clumsy heavy-hand. The latter leads to selective memory, the tell tail sign of someone desperate for validation even if its folly.

  12. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Yeah, you love your statistics without watching players play. Big mistake!

    With Bridgewater at QB the Vikes have enjoyed a remarkable turnaround despite having a bad offensive line.
    Yet Adrian Peterson has nothing to do with this?

    Edit: Not meant to come off so coldly, but I don't see how you can discount a once-in-a-generation caliber talent like AP.
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    2017 Draft picks:Left: #145, #175, #181, #185, #188
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Kizer, Peppers, S. Coleman, Kessler, Drango, Kindred, R. Louis, Payton, 2018 1st rnd (Texans) & 2018 2nd rnd (Eagles)
    Draft: 4/28-30, Rookie MiniCamp: 5/12-14, OTA's: 5/23-6/8, Veteran MiniCamp: 6/13-15

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    I've got mad fucking love for McCown and Hoyer.

    Those two played exceptionally well while Manziel learned from the sideline, and they took heat that would give Manziel nightmares in the process of doing so. Manziel learned from the sidelines (Giggity at the idiots who swore that wasn't possible because they're fucking retarded) and is finally starting to get it in a capacity that is actually allowing him to be successful on the field.

    While other quarterbacks get trashed in this thread, I'm going to give love to two guys who wore brown and orange only to be treated like Hitler incarnate in the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    Great picture!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Yet Adrian Peterson has nothing to do with this?

    Edit: Not meant to come off so coldly, but I don't see how you can discount a once-in-a-generation caliber talent like AP.
    Nobody is discounting Peterson at all. But football is a TEAM game, and before Bridgewater got there the Vikes were a mediocre team WITH Peterson.

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    The Vikes were 10-6 in 2012 with a healthy Peterson. Oh and newsflash: They're still a mediocre team. They've benefited from a rather soft schedule and done what a decent team should do:capitalize.

    They beat the Lions (x2), Chiefs, Raiders, Rams, Bears, and Chargers. Notice anything? Every team on that list currently has a losing record.

    Let's not overreact to Bridgewater's pedestrian numbers in light of the Vikes running game, defense, and pathetic schedule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Nobody is discounting Peterson at all. But football is a TEAM game, and before Bridgewater got there the Vikes were a mediocre team WITH Peterson.
    Thus the only reason the Vikes are decent now is because of Bridgewater.

    Brilliant logic. Who in their right mind would ever disagree with you? Except, of course, Greythan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    Thus the only reason the Vikes are decent now is because of Bridgewater.

    Brilliant logic. Who in their right mind would ever disagree with you? Except, of course, Greythan.
    Of course I didn't say that. But the view that Bridgewater hasn't been an asset for the Vikes and hasn't been a factor in their success is utterly ridiculous. The only reason people are trying to make the anti-Bridgewater case is that they are biased against Bridgewater.

    it's so disappointing one can't express their opinion on this board without being ganged up on by the Elementary School Bullies!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    The Vikes were 10-6 in 2012 with a healthy Peterson. Oh and newsflash: They're still a mediocre team. They've benefited from a rather soft schedule and done what a decent team should do:capitalize.

    They beat the Lions (x2), Chiefs, Raiders, Rams, Bears, and Chargers. Notice anything? Every team on that list currently has a losing record.

    Let's not overreact to Bridgewater's pedestrian numbers in light of the Vikes running game, defense, and pathetic schedule.
    Per your usual tact of only revealing stats that suit your scenario, you forget to tell your readers that in 2013, the year before Bridgewater arrived in Minnesota, the Vikes were 5-10-1 with Cassal, Freeman and Ponder as the three 3 QBs. Adrian Peterson gained nearly 1,300 yards that year and made the Pro Bowl.

    Several of the NFL power rankings have the vikings in the 10, some as high as 4th best NFL team. So once again your analysis of things NFL is at odds with conventional thinking, as it is most of the time with the Browns, except when you totally ditch your cherished views you clung to for two years about the Browns as it became clear you were wrong and I and others were right about Farmer, Pettine, and many other things.
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 11-22-2015 at 11:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    Thus the only reason the Vikes are decent now is because of Bridgewater.

    Brilliant logic. Who in their right mind would ever disagree with you? Except, of course, Greythan.
    Like your mentor Greythan, you're nothing but a troublemaker In fact, I think YOU are Greythan, posting another another name!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Of course I didn't say that. But the view that Bridgewater hasn't been an asset for the Vikes and hasn't been a factor in their success is utterly ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    without being ganged up on by the Elementary School Bullies!
    You're funny. No one said that either. I figured out the ignore, so I'm done with you. I don't do the name calling thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    Damn Gerythan. . . not a word from you on this about how JFF needs to stay away from the college party scene?

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