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Thread: Once... Twice... 31 times a MEGATHREAD

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    Default Once... Twice... 31 times a MEGATHREAD

    I didn't want to lose this great post by Ocon, good starting point for a new MEGATHREAD. Please keep QB-centric discussions here folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    I'm going to double post this here. Mods, time for a new MEGATHREAD???? We're on page 16 here and all.


    I joined PFF hoping to get in on their play-by-play grading system to help me understand it. It wasn't there. Even emailed them, and they said they didn't offer their "Premium stats" any longer. Joining only gave you access to season long grades, so I punted.


    Well, it looks like this Hayden Groves kid has picked up on this deficiency, and even adds about a sentence or two about each pass attempt. Nicely done really, and at minimum, the deserves credit for the time and effort.


    Here it is. If I post it in the future (and many of you may have already seen it), I won't copy/paste the entire thing. But will this time. The highlights are in bold.


    http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/stor...ziel-pass-pass


    Johnny Manziel: Pass-by-Pass vs. Pittsburgh


    Final Grades:
    A+: 3 Throws (7%)
    A: 9 Throws (20%)
    A-: 9 Throws (20%)
    B+: 4 Throws (9%)
    B: 6 Throws (13%)
    B-: 4 Throws (9%)
    C+: 3 Throws (7%)
    C: 4 Throws (9%)
    C-: 1 Throws (3%)
    D: 1 Throws (3%)
    A-Range: 47% (21 of his 45 throws)
    B-Range: 31% (14 of his 45 throws)
    C-Range: 19% (8 of his 45 throws)
    D-Range: 3% of (1 of his 45 throws)


    Final Statistics: 33-45, 372 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 95.8 QB Rating




    Pass-By-Pass Analysis
    1. 2nd and 9
    Manziel nearly picked off on a passed tipped by Isaiah Crowell. Ball was late and behind Crowell, luckily incomplete.
    Grade: D
    2. 3rd and 11
    Manziel with a bullet to Travis Benjamin after going through his progressions and rolling to his left. Nice job by Manziel rolling and making an accurate throw for a 61-yard gain.
    Grade: A-
    3. 2nd and Goal
    Manziel looking through his progressions again, rolling out again, but this time can’t connect with Hartline. Threw it hard on purpose, as it bounced off Hartline’s hands. Dangerous throw but not a poor one.
    Grade: C
    4. 3rd and Goal
    Manziel with a nice throw to Benjamin while rolling left, but it was short of the goal line. It’s hard to blame Manziel for Benjamin not getting in the end zone, while he did a nice job of giving his receiver a chance.
    Grade: B-
    5. 2nd and 11
    Manziel can’t find Hartline on an iffy pass that flies by the receiver. Not a terrible throw, but not a great one either.
    6. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a quick pass to the left for a four-yard gain to Benjamin. Accurate, timely, but nothing too special.
    Grade: B
    7. 2nd and 6
    Manziel with a nearly identical throw to the one before it, but this time, it’s to Duke Johnson. Again, accurate and timely, but not special.
    Grade: B
    8. 2nd and 17
    Manziel to the right on a quick throw to Duke Johnson. Nice job staying in the pocket, making an accurate throw, by Manziel.
    Grade: B-
    9. 3rd and 14
    Manziel with a beautiful dart to Brian Hartline for a first down. 17-yard gain on a dart from the pocket, in which he stepped up and made an accurate throw to Hartline on a big third down play. Nicest throw of the game thus far.
    Grade: A
    10. 1st and 10
    Manziel rolled right and sought out Hartline again, but this throw was a little less accurate, falling incomplete. Hartline was open, but he simply put too much on it.
    Grade: C
    11. 2nd and 10
    Manziel to Hawkins for a quick hit to the right, but the throw was a little high. Hard to blame Manziel with the stature of Hawkins, but a bette throw probably gets him a bigger gain.
    Grade: C+
    12. 3rd and 11
    Manziel with a screen pass to Duke Johnson, who does the majority of the work. Not a bad throw by any means, and he did a nice job of letting the play develop, but nothing worthy of a great grade here.
    Grade: B
    13. 2nd and 14
    Manziel finds Barnidge for a big gain on second down. Again, a nice throw and a nice job of getting a big gain for first-down yardage.
    Grade: B
    14. 1st and 10
    Manziel from the gun, stays in the pocket and delivers an accurate strike to Barnidge for a short gain. This is Manziel doing a better job of taking what he’s being given, and delivering an accurate throw for a first-down gain.
    Grade: A-
    15. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a similar throw to Barnidge, who’s made himself quit the target today. Manziel continues to find his guy quickly and deliver quick, accurate strikes.
    Grade: B
    16. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a fantastic throw from the pocket to Andrew Hawkins on a slant. Had his guy from the beginning and hit him in stride. Of course, Hawkins fumbled, but that has little to do with Hawkins.
    Grade: A
    17. 3rd and 10
    Manziel from deep in the end zone just tried to get one down the field to Travis Benjamin, but coverage was there. He simply tried to do something to get the Browns out of their own end zone and did a nice job of keeping it out of the reach of a defender, though it fell incomplete and out-of-bounds.
    Grade: B-
    18. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a play-action fake, rolls right and delivers a strike to Travis Benjamin. A nice play call to get Manziel out of the pocket and into open space, so he can deliver a great pass to an open Travis Benjamin.
    Grade: A-
    19. 2nd and 17
    Manziel from the shotgun delivers a beautiful quick-strike pass to Brian Hartline for a first down. Again, a fantastic example of “taking what you’re given” and made a fantastic read.
    Grade: A
    20. 3rd and 2
    Manziel again from the gun, stays in the pocket and delivers another accurate strike to Barnidge for a first down. Very decisive in his decisions to this point and great in terms of arm-strength.
    Grade: A-
    21. 3rd and 18
    Manziel in another bad situation in terms of yardage, but finds Barnidge on a quick strike again. He’s doing a nice job of reading the defense and taking what he’s given. An accurate quick throw, though it just six yards short of a first down.
    Grade: A-
    22. 1st and 10
    Manziel from the gun with yet another quick strike, this time to Andrew Hawkins on the right. A repeat of plenty of the aforementioned throws.
    Grade: A
    23. 1st and 10
    Manziel with a play-action fake, which allows Manziel to roll right and deliver a strike to Brian Hartline for another first down. It’s obvious that Manziel is great when out of the pocket and it’s showing thus far.
    Grade: A
    24. 1st and 10
    Manziel dumps it off to Isaiah Crowell for five yards on first down. A better decision than a throw, but both were solid.
    Grade: B+
    25. 2nd and 5
    Manziel, from the gun, delivers a beautiful strike to Andrew Hawkins for a first down. Stayed in the pocket, set his feet, and put his powerful arm behind his third-straight first down throw. That throw was almost identical to his first-down strike to Brian Hartline in the first quarter.
    Grade: A+
    26. 2nd and 4
    Manziel throws it into the dirt by Travis Benjamin, after being chased around by Pittsburgh defenders. Stayed in the pocket for a bit, but had nothing down the field, forcing him to roll out and just toss it away.
    Grade: C+
    27. 3rd and 4
    Manziel tosses a screen pass to Duke Johnson for a first down. A better play call than a throw, but it was executed well, nonetheless.
    Grade: B-
    28. 1st and 10
    Manziel stands in the pocket and delivers a strike to Travis Benjamin on a slant. A beautiful throw and catch that gave the Browns a very manageable 2nd and 2.
    Grade: A
    29. 3rd and 5
    Manziel, again, does a nice job of staying in the pocket and delivering a quick strike to Brian Hartline over the middle for a first down. A nice throw to get the Browns closer to the end zone.
    Grade: A
    30. 2nd and GL
    Manziel is now making a trend of making great throws on short passes to shorten the distance between the sticks. This time, he receives the snap, gets pressure, but throws a dart to Andrew Hawkins over the middle for a short gain.
    Grade: A-
    31. 3rd and GL
    Manziel with another nice job of taking what he’s given, as he finds Hawkins from the pocket, over the middle, to get the ball closer to the end zone on 4th and goal.
    Grade: B+
    32. 4th and GL
    Manziel tries to stay in the pocket, but is flushed right, makes an iffy decision to throw the ball back over the middle and it’s intercepted. That being said, on fourth down and needing to score, Manziel had to put the ball in the end zone and had little else to do. A holding penalty would’ve called the play back in any case, so the play is essentially a wash.
    Grade: C
    33. 2nd and 5
    Manziel with a beautiful toss for an over-the-shoulder catch by Gary Barnidge for 6. It wasn’t a long throw, but it was a fantastic decision with perfect placement for the first TD of the day for the Browns. It was a one-step fade route to the right, executed to perfectin.
    Grade: A+
    34. 1st and 10
    Manziel, from the gun, stays in the pocket and delivers a strike to Travis Benjamin on a short crossing route. Again, nothing special, but he took what the defense gave him.
    Grade: B
    35. 2nd and 8
    Manziel finds Hartline wide open to the left, after scanning the field, for a 22-yard gain. Nice job by Manziel going through his options, setting his feet and making a strong, accurate throw to his receiver for a first down.
    Grade: A-
    36. 1st and 10
    Manziel delivers a strike to Taylor Gabriel for a big gain, but it’s a little high— remember, Gabriel is very small. It was a great decision and a great throw by Manziel for yet another first down.
    Grade: A
    37. 1st and 10
    Manziel stands in the pocket, from the shotgun, and goes through his progressions before finally finding Travis Benjamin on a beautiful pass to the right that flies just past the finger tips of a Pittsburgh defender. Again, a great job of setting his feet and delivering a strong-armed strike for a first down.
    Grade: A-
    38. 1st and 10
    Manziel tried to get another quick strike, but this was probably his worst decision of the day. He tossed it to Taylor Gabriel, but a defender was right there. He was lucky to have not been intercepted.
    Grade: C-
    39. 2nd and 10
    Manziel feels the pressure up the middle but stays in the pocket and makes a throw over the middle. It sails over the head of Gary Barnidge in the end zone and brings the Browns back to third down. Manziel faded backwards on the throw, likely due to the pressure, which forced the ball upwards and just out of the reach of Barnidge.
    Grade: C+
    40. 3rd and 15
    Manziel is flushed out of the pocket, thanks to a ton of pressure, and makes an awkward throw to Brian Hartline, who makes a great catch. Though the throw was a little risky, it got to where it needed to go. If they were up in the game, it wouldn’t be an advised throw, but down by 21 late in the fourth quarter, there’s no sense in not trying.
    Grade: B+
    41. 4th and 6
    Manziel with another quick-strike slant to the left to Taylor Gabriel, who holds on for the first down, despite being annihilated by Will Allen on the play. A very good, accurate throw by Manziel, and a good decision as well, but Gabriel wouldn’t make it back to the game after that hit.
    Grade: B+
    42. 1st and GL
    Manziel with a nice throw to Brian Hartline in the end zone that only he could catch, but he wasn’t able to bring it down. It had the touch and the accuracy, but Hartline could only get a hand on it.
    Grade: A-
    43. 2nd and GL
    Manziel with a beautiful, touchdown throw to Travis Benjamin on a slant… but the receiver drops the ball, as it hits him in the chest on the goal line. Manziel got absolutely zero help from his receiver, as he should’ve picked up his second touchdown of the game.
    Grade: A+
    44. 3rd and GL
    Manziel gets the snap and delivers a fade route to the back corner of the end zone, but no one is home. Probably a miscommunication on some level, but Benjamin made little effort to cross the goal line, much less get to the corner of the end zone.
    Grade: C
    45. 4th and GL
    Manziel flushed out of the pocket and forced to roll left, where he delivers a beautiful pass to a covered Gary Barnidge. Though he placed the ball where only Barnidge could get to it, the tight end couldn’t haul it in. Probably a better throw than a decision here, but either way, not good enough for a touchdown.
    Grade: A


    Overall: A-
    This was by-far Manziel's best game as a professional, as evidenced by both the numbers and the grades above. He not only was able to do the things for which he's known-- rolling out, throwing on the run, having a flair for the spectacular play-- but he was also able to take what the defense gave him, making quick, accurate throws and reads throughout the game. Of course, with his team's back to the wall for most of the afternoon, Manziel did make a couple of risky plays, but only one turned out to hurt his numbers. In any case, if he can put together these types of games throughout the rest of the season, the Browns may actually need to put stock into the idea that Manziel could be the man in Cleveland, at least heading into next season.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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    We are 11th in team passer rating as of today:

    92.9 rating with a 16/6 TD/INT ratio.

    That rating puts us ahead of teams like Atlanta, Seattle, and Carolina to name a few.

    A few things this tells us:

    - Flip's done a hell of a job as a first time OC in the passing game
    - McCown was a really great signing. So glad we didn't get guys like Sanchez, Mettenberger or Geno Smith.
    - Manziel's growing and that's the best news as of today. Credit to him and to the staff.
    - Our receiver corps is somehow part of the 11th best passing offense in football. How do we explain that one?
    - This is all part of a 2 win football team that can't run the football, can't stop the run, and can't stop the pass.

    I could argue this is the best state of the QB position our team has enjoyed since its rebirth. You'd have to factor in the DA wonder year, but so many of us saw that as fool's gold.

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    I hope McCown is around for his full 3 years in whatever capacity.

    If we had a defense or a running game, we'd be at least .500 right now. Yes, with either QB.

    Flip has done a hell of a job. I agree. And he has room for improvement. That's a good thing.

    If Manziel can continue this overall QB trend of 2015 (both he and McCown putting up good numbers in losses), then we'll have a clearer spring come the draft.

    Also, just to make the point at the start of this QB31 megathread...

    If McCown and Manziel were the same age, then I'd have no problem handing the reigns back to Josh once he's healthy again.

    But one is at the end of his career and one is at the beginning. This isn't hard on who to start. Especially with Manziel on the field and McCown on the bench, McCown will still be productive in his mentoring role.
















    Last edited by OconRecon; 11-16-2015 at 12:18 PM.
    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 EXTRA Draft picks: a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), a 5th (Chiefs/Cam) - 12 total
    2019 EXTRA picks: 7th rnd (w/ Coates)
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    1st on waiver-wire until 9/25

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    And here it is. Manziel gets a high PFF grade:




    Last edited by OconRecon; 11-16-2015 at 12:26 PM.
    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 EXTRA Draft picks: a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), a 5th (Chiefs/Cam) - 12 total
    2019 EXTRA picks: 7th rnd (w/ Coates)
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    1st on waiver-wire until 9/25

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    They had a first on the table for Sammy Bradford. Or, they were contemplating giving a first and inheriting ALL of the risks involved. I saw that deer & headlight look again this weekend (unfortunately that is) by Bradford.

    So, minus his GM1 kamakazi, McCown's been good. A Davis has game. Johnny's coming around. Meanwhile, Favre's in a tree stand, and Goodell will find a way to fine him for not watching football.

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    More Manziel analysis:

    PFF: Johnny Manziel had the best game of his career

    While the naysayers want to point out that the Pittsburgh Steelers defense was Charmin soft thanks to having a substantial lead, the folks at Pro Football Focus say that Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel played the best game of his young career despite the 30-9 loss.

    From PFF:

    Although Johnny Manziel (+3.3) was sacked six times according to the official gamebook, Cleveland’s offensive line actually played really well and limited the pass rush of the Steelers’ defensive line. Of the six sacks, only one was really due to poor offensive line play—when Cameron Erving let Stephon Tuitt go by him. As a matter of fact, the only player on the Browns’ offensive line who graded out below +1.0 was Erving (-2.0), who started the first game of his NFL career. Consequently, Browns fans do not have to panic about the state of their offensive line, but rather about the performance of the other players who take part in avoiding sacks.

    Despite his fumble and interception, Johnny Manziel played the best game of his career. The fact that Manziel attempted 13 passes outside the right numbers compared to nine outside the left numbers shows the amount of times Cleveland rolled him out of the pocket, providing him easier reads; however, he was able to take advantage of the situation and find open receivers constantly. While Manziel still held onto the ball too long and struggled a bit under pressure, where he graded out at -0.2 compared to +2.4 from a clean pocket, he made a significant step forward in this game.

    As with each PFF-based post, we do have to offer the caveat that we have no idea what goes into each grade. Pittsburgh’s Ben Roethlisberger graded out a +1.9 despite throwing for more yards and touchdowns. According to the post, Roethlisberger was punished for his yard-per-attempt which dropped to less than one yard when blitzed. It could also be said that a good chunk of Big Ben’s yardage was tallied after the catch thanks to his litany of weapons at the play-making positions.

    Starting with two incomplete passes, however, Manziel would go on to complete 31 of his next 33 attempts, each of which averaged more than eight yards. Though the Browns tacked on a few more three-and-outs (a stat in which they lead the NFL), Manziel showed improved decision making in the pocket, passing to seven different receivers on the afternoon. His maneuvering during blitzes looked Cotton Bowl-esque. He even showed some frustration when the rest of the offense forced him to take a timeout in the second half.

    Like Manziel or not, it’s tough to argue with what he did on Saturday—at least not without looking like a cynic.
    Last edited by OconRecon; 11-16-2015 at 01:00 PM.
    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 EXTRA Draft picks: a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), a 5th (Chiefs/Cam) - 12 total
    2019 EXTRA picks: 7th rnd (w/ Coates)
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    1st on waiver-wire until 9/25

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    Mike Pettine praised the hell outta Johnny in the press conference today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangelo930 View Post
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    Mike Pettine praised the hell outta Johnny in the press conference today.
    I wonder who will be Johnny's coach next year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    I wonder who will be Johnny's coach next year?
    JOHN GRUDEN would be sweet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangelo930 View Post
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    Mike Pettine praised the hell outta Johnny in the press conference today.
    Nothing new. He did the same after the Tennessee game.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    I wonder who will be Johnny's coach next year?
    We already heard the rumor on that. If Ray Farmer has a say, he is voting for Kevin Sumlin.

    Our O-Line is definitely suited for the AIR RAID set up. We have all finesse guys.

    Will a wide O-line work in the NFL?

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    We already heard the rumor on that. If Ray Farmer has a say, he is voting for Kevin Sumlin.
    I hope Farmer doesn't have his say then.

    I'd rather have Jim Mora or Brian Kelly if we sign a college football coach.

    Too much speed in the NFL to try to run a wide open offense like the air raid.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    Nothing new. He did the same after the Tennessee game.
    Not like today, ODC. This was easily the highest he's ever sounded about Johnny. And I'm not just saying that because I like Johnny. Others have said the same as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    I hope Farmer doesn't have his say then.

    I'd rather have Jim Mora or Brian Kelly if we sign a college football coach.

    Too much speed in the NFL to try to run a wide open offense like the air raid.
    Remember that speed can be countered with mis-direction and agility.

    Wide a wide O-Line set.. I can see NFL pass rushers over pursuing the pocket pretty easily

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 EXTRA Draft picks: a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), a 5th (Chiefs/Cam) - 12 total
    2019 EXTRA picks: 7th rnd (w/ Coates)
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    1st on waiver-wire until 9/25

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    McCown was a brilliant pick up for the Browns and for JFF.

    Credit where credit is due.

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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    I hope Farmer doesn't have his say then.

    I'd rather have Jim Mora or Brian Kelly if we sign a college football coach.

    Too much speed in the NFL to try to run a wide open offense like the air raid.
    Sumlin runs like 12 plays. Please. God. No.

    http://www.chron.com/sports/aggies/a...-s-4035193.php


    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    We already heard the rumor on that. If Ray Farmer has a say, he is voting for Kevin Sumlin.

    Our O-Line is definitely suited for the AIR RAID set up. We have all finesse guys.

    Will a wide O-line work in the NFL?
    So teach JFF to be a pro QB and then turn him back into a college QB?

    Sumlin would get him killed in the NFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangelo930 View Post
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    Not like today, ODC. This was easily the highest he's ever sounded about Johnny. And I'm not just saying that because I like Johnny. Others have said the same as well.
    Maybe so. I will believe it when I see it.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    I've never heard Pettine sound this way about Johnny. He all but named him the starter. I think that fish is in the boat, guys.

    If he showed this much growth with one week of starter reps, imagine him with a bye week. And then beyond. He's growing into being what I thought he was, a legit first round pick and one of my two favorites (along with Carr). I like the mobility, the arm strength, the creativity, and the fire. He's a competitor, for sure.

    I'm glad he's a Brown.

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    Shep, brace yourself for those who said college stats didn't matter... To start glorifying college stats of incoming quarterbacks.

    Manziel is more than likely going to have 2+ bad games (which will be sensationalized as the worst games ever).

    Personally, I don't think the kid has a chance in hell of solidifying his position as QB1 for 2016.

    Too many people are all-in with their biases.

    He threw two lucky passes in Tennessee, he fumbles more than any quarterback ever, can't EVER play from the pocket, isn't consistent, can't get it in the end zone, can't win.

    The reality is the passion isn't on the "manzielots" side, it's on and has been on the hate side and I don't think that is going to change anytime soon. It will just go underground and displayed with passive aggressive comments.

    Now If the kid can overcome our deficiencies in coaching, talent on both sides of the ball +the bitter old men yelling at clouds and Internet qb gurus angrily typing about footwork, Brian hoyer loving media, ... I'll be floored.

    From day 1 here, it's been a absolutely horrible environment to develop a qb in. Some of that is on manziel. None of it this year.... But it all continues to ripple.

    outisde of winning 3/6 and putting up great numbers, I don't think he's going to be able to "earn" the job.

  21. #21
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    Grossi's QB take this morning. I 100% agree.

    1. Name Johnny Manziel the full-time starting quarterback for the rest of the year.

    This is a no-brainer and will surely happen. But what goes along with it is committing the offense to Manziel.

    The coaches are absolutely right in continuing to train Manziel to stay in the pocket long enough to make at least two reads before running to throw. But they ought to do things to create some passing lanes for the little guy. Deeper drops, planned rollouts, bootlegs, quick outs, bubble screens … empty the playbook.

    Find out as much as possible about Manziel over the last six games with all resources devoted to him, including Josh McCown’s invaluable guidance.

    One of three things will happen: 1. He will rise to a level where everyone will see him as the franchise quarterback. 2. He will put enough decent play on tape to entice trade offers after the season. 3. Or he will play himself off the team.

    The worst possible thing would be for the season to end without anyone having a clue about Manziel’s future with team. Find out, already.


    http://espncleveland.com/common/more...&post_id=51541
    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 EXTRA Draft picks: a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), a 5th (Chiefs/Cam) - 12 total
    2019 EXTRA picks: 7th rnd (w/ Coates)
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    1st on waiver-wire until 9/25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    I've never heard Pettine sound this way about Johnny. He all but named him the starter. I think that fish is in the boat, guys.

    If he showed this much growth with one week of starter reps, imagine him with a bye week. And then beyond. He's growing into being what I thought he was, a legit first round pick and one of my two favorites (along with Carr). I like the mobility, the arm strength, the creativity, and the fire. He's a competitor, for sure.

    I'm glad he's a Brown.
    Pettine is a little slow. It takes him months to figure out what others can see right away. That's why his team is seemingly incapable of making in-game adjustments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    Grossi's QB take this morning. I 100% agree.

    1. Name Johnny Manziel the full-time starting quarterback for the rest of the year.

    This is a no-brainer and will surely happen. But what goes along with it is committing the offense to Manziel.

    The coaches are absolutely right in continuing to train Manziel to stay in the pocket long enough to make at least two reads before running to throw. But they ought to do things to create some passing lanes for the little guy. Deeper drops, planned rollouts, bootlegs, quick outs, bubble screens … empty the playbook.

    Find out as much as possible about Manziel over the last six games with all resources devoted to him, including Josh McCown’s invaluable guidance.

    One of three things will happen: 1. He will rise to a level where everyone will see him as the franchise quarterback. 2. He will put enough decent play on tape to entice trade offers after the season. 3. Or he will play himself off the team.

    The worst possible thing would be for the season to end without anyone having a clue about Manziel’s future with team. Find out, already.


    http://espncleveland.com/common/more...&post_id=51541
    Good with an asterisk. We must always remember that Manziel's supporting cast on offense and defense is among the worst in the entire NFL and he's doing it all with mostly very little help at all. In light of that fact, if Manziel plays even close to average, that's great in my book! Give the kid some weapons this off-season and watch him go l next year But with that small physique, I wonder how long he can stay healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoatShoes View Post
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    Shep, brace yourself for those who said college stats didn't matter... To start glorifying college stats of incoming quarterbacks.

    Manziel is more than likely going to have 2+ bad games (which will be sensationalized as the worst games ever).

    Personally, I don't think the kid has a chance in hell of solidifying his position as QB1 for 2016.

    Too many people are all-in with their biases.

    He threw two lucky passes in Tennessee, he fumbles more than any quarterback ever, can't EVER play from the pocket, isn't consistent, can't get it in the end zone, can't win.

    The reality is the passion isn't on the "manzielots" side, it's on and has been on the hate side and I don't think that is going to change anytime soon. It will just go underground and displayed with passive aggressive comments.

    Now If the kid can overcome our deficiencies in coaching, talent on both sides of the ball +the bitter old men yelling at clouds and Internet qb gurus angrily typing about footwork, Brian hoyer loving media, ... I'll be floored.

    From day 1 here, it's been a absolutely horrible environment to develop a qb in. Some of that is on manziel. None of it this year.... But it all continues to ripple.

    outisde of winning 3/6 and putting up great numbers, I don't think he's going to be able to "earn" the job.
    Another person who doesn't understand that Manziel is just at a point where Bortles, Carr, Bridgewater all were right before the halfway point in the season LAST YEAR! Cut the kid some slack until he gains more experience, will 'ya???!!!!

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