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    Quote Originally Posted by NGgator60 View Post
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    I didn't forget RGIII, as a matter of fact I was thinking of him while offering my original statement. Griffin didn't "flash" in the traditional sense so much as his game was all predicated on "flash." RGIII operated within the friendly confines of a gimmick offense that most often saw him make one downfield read without having to work through typical NFL progressions. RGIII flashes in the same sense as Tebow flashed but he simply looked better doing it and had a more committed staff enabling him.

    What has impressed many with regards to Johnny's play is that he operated at times successfully within an NFL system against Cincinnati, but his style still drew enough criticism from those that felt he moved outside of the pocket too much. What did Johnny proceed to do just nine days later? Operate almost exclusively from the pocket and perform at an even higher level.

    RGIII never really faced his criticisms nor did he ever need to with having demonstrated some success and led by a coaching staff that enabled him. RGIII's downfall came as a result of that system and his subsequent decline in performance within it.
    Waht I see is that Manziel is a footballer. He has an intuitive feel for the game, something Weeden lacks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hammertime View Post
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    This new 'direction' the Browns have shown all goes out the window if Manzeil gets injured...

    Should hold the fans attention the last 6 games though...
    Austin Davis would surprise you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    I too like this.

    McCown is still in a position of value, and the franchise with a direction at QB1.

    Grossi's points this morning:

    One of three things will happen:
    1. He will rise to a level where everyone will see him as the franchise quarterback.
    2. He will put enough decent play on tape to entice trade offers after the season.
    3. Or he will play himself off the team.

    The worst possible thing would be for the season to end without anyone having a clue about Manziel’s future with team.


    It's just that simple.

    If he tanks, we draft the best QB on the board. If he plays well, but the D continues to give up 30/game, we'll have tons of options at the top of the draft. If we win a few, there'll still be plenty of great ways to go in the top 10 (WR, LB, DE, RB, etc).

    15 days to prepare for the 2 win Ravens - now THAT's giving a guy a chance.

    ESPN is thanking their lucky stars. Otherwise, they had the toilet bowl on tap with no way to market the thing.

    Call Ray Rice and Terrelle and let's go f-ing crazy with this thing. (kidding kind of really, I'm just serious but not so much, well)

    Lead the way Johnny.


    via GIPHY

    The QB position is not an issue with me. We have three solid guys there. This board should focus attention on the problem areas -- and they are many! Why have Gabriel and Hawkins regressed so much, for example? Midget-itis, I guess, eventually catches up with these small guys who can't block, can't go up and get balls, and get bumped hard at the lien of scrimmage.

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    Offense moves:

    Would love to have Gordon and the 2016 highly drafted WR at X and Y. Hartline and Benjamin at P and S. And then work in Hawk and Gabe as receivers #5 and #6, with Marlon Moore as the "when needed" wide receiver. (I know this isn't exactly how our O is set up, but you catch my drift)

    Need to replace TE/FB Malcom Johnson with a Laurence Vickers type. A bruiser.

    Give Bibbs a frickin' try.

    Need to keep Duke, and bring in someone to compete with Crow. Aren't Matt Forte, Chris Ivory, and Lamar Miller set to test free agency waters?

    Getting a little tired of leading the league in salary cap space.

    ---

    Oh yeah, and do this too:


    Last edited by OconRecon; 11-17-2015 at 05:27 PM.
    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

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    My God, the 3 minute highlight reel and it seems like every down was 10-20 yards for the first down.

    http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media...e-85a3e4f26a4c
    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    Offense moves:

    Would love to have Gordon and the 2016 highly drafted WR at X and Y. Hartline and Benjamin at P and S. And then work in Hawk and Gabe as receivers #5 and #6, with Marlon Moore as the "when needed" wide receiver. (I know this isn't exactly how our O is set up, but you catch my drift)

    Need to replace TE/FB Malcom Johnson with a Laurence Vickers type. A bruiser.

    Give Bibbs a frickin' try.

    Need to keep Duke, and bring in someone to compete with Crow. Aren't Matt Forte, Chris Ivory, and Lamar Miller set to test free agency waters?

    Getting a little tired of leading the league in salary cap space.

    ---

    Oh yeah, and do this too:


    That's a statement ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    That's a statement ..


    And Bowe is still here...I guess were saying him for the playoffs?
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



    Its Offense baby!!!!!" "ITS
    OFFENSE!!!!!

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    Hawkins
    Gabriel
    Bowe
    Moore
    Bademosi
    All need cut....


    Gordon Hartline benji

    Hopefully pharoah cooper, braxton miller and sterling shepard.

    Ej bibbs .malcolm johnson and barnidge at te.

    Duke johnson needs line up at a
    Slot wr when other rb in...

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    Default Front Office push Pettine to Start Manziel - Manziel announced starter for rest of year.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...johnny-manziel

    http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/...d-922a6860f901

    lot's to chew on and raises more suspicion about pett but good news overall, let's see what we have in the kid before our presumably high pick this draft.

    2012 Barking Hard Pick'em Champion!

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    A little pay-site paraphrasing, from a source "inside the organization".

    Steelers game impact:

    • Manziel playing well in Pittsburgh, in that tough environment, impressed, and strongly contributed to today's announcement.
    • Manziel looked much better in the pocket, running the offense, and making plays to compete, but he also missed quite a bit on the field, which you'd expect to a degree due to the lack of actual playing experience.
    • "It's clear, the more he plays, the more the game slows down for him, which for a QB is telling — he’s getting it, the development process is taking hold."



    On the decision to name him the starter for the rest of the year:

    • The opinion from the top, with loss after loss, is that there is little to lose in getting him on the field and gaining those important reps.
    • As an organization there is an importance, an immediacy, to know where we are as a group with the talent-base. Implying young guys will play.
    • The top did not demand that Manziel start from here on out, but it contributed/influenced the collective sense in the building. It was "the opinion coming from that end". Not all long, but at this point in time with the 2-8 record.


    ---

    It's clear the organization has thrown a lever. This season is over, and the remaining games will be used to figure out the current talent level, especially guys like Gilbert, Gaines, Campbell, Orchard, Cooper, Erving, Bibbs, and especially Manziel.

    For the next three games, two are winnable (Ravens and Niners) and the other is the Bengals at home, and Browns vs Bengals games tend to be the least predictable divisional games. They feel winning 2 out of the 3 is an attainable goal.
    Last edited by OconRecon; 11-17-2015 at 08:51 PM.
    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

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    Excitement so great easy to forget we are 2- 8. not
    Always remember sports are like women:
    High School all the girls play,
    NCAA only good looking girls play,
    Pro's only the Super Models play !

    the most important reading you might ever do.
    http://web.archive.org/web/201607010.../genescott.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Careful. You'll draw the ire of his ardent defender with talk like that.
    Who really cares now? I certainly don't. I got what I wanted: Manziel on the field the rest of the year. I want to see what he can become.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Now THAT's a healthy looking QB room:

    Team picture day. Quarterbacks group had to get a #squad selfie. 👌

    A photo posted by Cleveland Browns (@clevelandbrowns) on


    Last edited by OconRecon; 11-18-2015 at 12:53 PM.
    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    I want to see what he can become.
    Who doesn't?

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
    - Paul Brown

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    At least we can't lose this week

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    It's been said a million times, but you can see why Pett loves McCown's "team first" approach. A class act in every way.


    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Grossi View Post
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    One of three things will happen:
    1. He will rise to a level where everyone will see him as the franchise quarterback.
    2. He will put enough decent play on tape to entice trade offers after the season.
    3. Or he will play himself off the team.

    The worst possible thing would be for the season to end without anyone having a clue about Manziel’s future with team.
    Very illuminating Tony. I believe we have been saying that since the off season.

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
    - Paul Brown

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    Who doesn't?
    Hatah's...
    BROWNS 2017: ANALYTICS, IT'S NOT JUST SOMETHING YOU TRY IN THE BEDROOM ANYMORE!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    My God, the 3 minute highlight reel and it seems like every down was 10-20 yards for the first down.

    http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media...e-85a3e4f26a4c
    You should probably put a trigger warning on this so our resident manziel is the devil crowd doesnt have to suffer through it

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Browns next QB View Post
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    For the Ravens game I fell asleep at halftime and woke up after the Brownies had won. I joked with my friends that I may have slept through the last victory of the season...
    Funny thing is- last night I put on the Directv shortcut of that game. We were damn lucky to win it. What really bothered me- is 5 weeks later we're still making the same stupid mistakes. Two plays with multiple penalties, and a damn near NFL record in that regard.

    Mr. Pettine- this isn't just a matter of "cleaning a few things up". It's more like the Captain of the Titanic asking the first mate "how many lifeboats we got"?
    Last edited by hoorta; 11-18-2015 at 11:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoorta View Post
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    Funny thing is- last night I put on the Directv shortcut of that game. We were damn lucky to win it. What really bothered me- is 5 weeks later we're still making the same stupid mistakes. Two plays with multiple penalties, and a damn near NFL record in that regard.

    Mr. Pettine- this isn't just a matter of "cleaning a few things up". It's more like the Captain of the Titanic asking the first mate "how many lifeboats we got"?
    Yeah, their pro bowl running back got hurt and had to leave the game. If the Ravens had him in the 4th quarter and OT the Browns would have lost. The Browns have only played one game where they truly outplayed the opponent: Tennessee.

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    Kind of off topic, but related to the preparation involved for an NFL qb; this is a lengthy article on how Carson Palmer prepared the entire week before the Cardinals' game vs the Browns. It really gives you a good idea how much work is involved, not only with the players but the coaches too. If you read the whole thing, you can see why it is tough sledding for younger QBs and why game plans (plays) have to be limited for them early on.

    http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/11/17/n...side-game-plan

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    A little pay-site paraphrasing, from a source "inside the organization".

    Steelers game impact:

    • Manziel playing well in Pittsburgh, in that tough environment, impressed, and strongly contributed to today's announcement.
    • Manziel looked much better in the pocket, running the offense, and making plays to compete, but he also missed quite a bit on the field, which you'd expect to a degree due to the lack of actual playing experience.
    • "It's clear, the more he plays, the more the game slows down for him, which for a QB is telling — he’s getting it, the development process is taking hold."



    On the decision to name him the starter for the rest of the year:

    • The opinion from the top, with loss after loss, is that there is little to lose in getting him on the field and gaining those important reps.
    • As an organization there is an importance, an immediacy, to know where we are as a group with the talent-base. Implying young guys will play.
    • The top did not demand that Manziel start from here on out, but it contributed/influenced the collective sense in the building. It was "the opinion coming from that end". Not all long, but at this point in time with the 2-8 record.


    ---

    It's clear the organization has thrown a lever. This season is over, and the remaining games will be used to figure out the current talent level, especially guys like Gilbert, Gaines, Campbell, Orchard, Cooper, Erving, Bibbs, and especially Manziel.

    For the next three games, two are winnable (Ravens and Niners) and the other is the Bengals at home, and Browns vs Bengals games tend to be the least predictable divisional games. They feel winning 2 out of the 3 is an attainable goal.
    I'd just love to see what Manziel could do with an NFL average offense. Right now he's playing with about the worst offensive line, running back and wide receiver groups inthe NFL!

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    Hell of a read 'sheets. Relevant to us: imagine Manziel's reaction going from his week of prep under D1 rules and the A&M scheme to an NFL system that requires massive hours of study and work each week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    I'd just love to see what Manziel could do with an NFL average offense. Right now he's playing with about the worst offensive line, running back and wide receiver groups inthe NFL!
    I think you're being hyperbolic, but you can correct me if that's a false statement.

    Browns current rankings:

    26th in yards per game
    12th in passing yards per game
    31st in rushing yards per game
    28th in points scored per game

    Lots of really bad numbers in there for sure, but the stats don't reflect the assertion of the 32nd ranked OL, RB, and Receiver supporting cast of 10.

    There's also the impact of a defense that can't stop letting teams score 30+ points on us. Its hard on any offense to play from behind forcing the one-dimensional thing.

    Point is that while I don't see anyone debating the need for better skill position talent, guys like Benjamin and Barnidge have been far from cellar dwellers at their positions. This isn't the worst supporting cast across the board, but to your point it does need improvement.

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