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Thread: Browns Players Vs. Browns Coaches .. Do we have a mutiny?

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    Default Browns Players Vs. Browns Coaches .. Do we have a mutiny?


    TRAVIS BENJAMIN- (When asked about re-signing with the Browns and if their record this year will impact that decision)- "No, Not at all, Not at all. It doesnt matter. As long as we get the right pieces in here and the right staff and anything we need to make this team great, Im willing to stick by for the long haul."

    TRAMON WILLIAMS- "Whatever the coaches ask of us we try and do the best of our abilities but at the same time.. You have to let a player be a player."

    PAUL KRUGER- "We need to find what were good at, and stick to it."

    Ohhh boy..


    Last edited by Enigmatic Evil; 11-16-2015 at 09:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Ohhh boy..


    I keep saying some of this is the coaching. That's for sure. But players need to stop making excuses, too, and do the best they can. Browns always seem to lead the league in whining and some of the fans lead the NFL in making excuses for bad results and bad coaching and front office management.

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    My advice? Focus on your job:

    Benjamin dropped an easy TD pass. I'm also not sure its logical to read anything into his quote considering this very same crappy coaching staff has put him in a position to have a career year and sign for some major cash after this year.

    Williams got called for two PI calls.

    Kruger struggled all day to generate any pressure on Ben.

    Is coaching playing a role in all this? Sure it is. The defense has been so horribly bad there's plenty of blame to go around. I'm just not ready to declare this defense's problems 95% schematic. A lot of the players lumped into this category of regressing were never established as great NFL players from where they even could "regress".

    Who knows. I'm generally not a fan of these discussions regarding the internal politics of the football team. I think the defensive coaches need to do a much better job. I think Farmer has to do a much better job getting us good players. I think the players on the team need to do a better job playing. When you're 32nd in defense, its hard to imagine swapping out O'Neil and Pettine for your favorites and seeing this unit jump to top 10. I think we have some real personnel problems, especially in the front seven; specifically the linebacking corps.

    And... our defensive secondary has been decimated by injuries all year. As I said in another post, it would have been interesting to see the top 5 DB's play extended minutes. I'm not sure they've even been on the field together at all this year. Its likely had a big impact.

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    100% in favor of them speaking out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    My advice? Focus on your job:

    Benjamin dropped an easy TD pass. I'm also not sure its logical to read anything into his quote considering this very same crappy coaching staff has put him in a position to have a career year and sign for some major cash after this year.

    Williams got called for two PI calls.

    Kruger struggled all day to generate any pressure on Ben.

    Is coaching playing a role in all this? Sure it is. The defense has been so horribly bad there's plenty of blame to go around. I'm just not ready to declare this defense's problems 95% schematic. A lot of the players lumped into this category of regressing were never established as great NFL players from where they even could "regress".

    Who knows. I'm generally not a fan of these discussions regarding the internal politics of the football team. I think the defensive coaches need to do a much better job. I think Farmer has to do a much better job getting us good players. I think the players on the team need to do a better job playing. When you're 32nd in defense, its hard to imagine swapping out O'Neil and Pettine for your favorites and seeing this unit jump to top 10. I think we have some real personnel problems, especially in the front seven; specifically the linebacking corps.

    And... our defensive secondary has been decimated by injuries all year. As I said in another post, it would have been interesting to see the top 5 DB's play extended minutes. I'm not sure they've even been on the field together at all this year. Its likely had a big impact.
    I guess my question to this is..

    Why did we go from essentially a top ten defense last year to the worst?

    Pretty much the same players

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I guess my question to this is..

    Why did we go from essentially a top ten defense last year to the worst?

    Pretty much the same players
    BINGO!

    Good story from Terry Pluto today about the lack of discipline and the fact the team's 188 yards in penalties was the second highest ever. Browns are second in the NFL in penalties. Like me, I think Pluto is pissed off that pettine doesn't seem to be all that hot and bothered by the penalties.

    http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index...ml#incart_2box

    Pluto also discusses the lack of NFL coaching experience for the Browns staff and I agree, not worth dumping Pettine until season's end. ANOTHER lost season!

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    Our defensive coordinator seems to be a problem. Will be hard for Pettine to let a trusted friend go, but it is what it is.

    That being said, if you can't get simple football down and you are failing as a player to perform....look in the mirror.

    Also, if you can't perform in this scheme or accomplish what your coaches ask of you within the scheme ...look at the GM.
    Last edited by TheBestPlayersPlay; 11-16-2015 at 05:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    We have heard reports of ANONYMOUS complaints all season ranging from Pettine, to O'Neil, to Joker Phillips.
    for curiosities sake, what has been said about Joker?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzDawg View Post
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    for curiosities sake, what has been said about Joker?
    Apprently there is a disagreement between Pettine and Joker.. and Bowe and Farmer.. essentially Joker doesnt like Bowe on a personal level and Bowe was recently vocal about it off the record

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Apprently there is a disagreement between Pettine and Joker.. and Bowe and Farmer.. essentially Joker doesnt like Bowe on a personal level and Bowe was recently vocal about it off the record
    In that case I'm all behind Joker ! Never understood why we grabbed Dwayne Blow anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I guess my question to this is..

    Why did we go from essentially a top ten defense last year to the worst?

    Pretty much the same players
    You can beat me up if you like, but it's mostly the scheme. I've been saying that since last season. There's talent on the defense, it's not that complicated. Line them up right, and tell your best rushers," go get the QB." It's OK to play zone sometimes. Shelton was suppose to be the key to stopping the run, he's no more effective than Taylor or Kitchen.

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    I'm behind Bowe. The guy has a proven good track record in the NFL but the receivers coach doesn't like him. Great, make it about personalities instead of putting the players on the field that can help the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Apprently there is a disagreement between Pettine and Joker.. and Bowe and Farmer.. essentially Joker doesnt like Bowe on a personal level and Bowe was recently vocal about it off the record
    Guess it is on the record now.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
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    You can beat me up if you like, but it's mostly the scheme. I've been saying that since last season. There's talent on the defense, it's not that complicated. Line them up right, and tell your best rushers," go get the QB." It's OK to play zone sometimes. Shelton was suppose to be the key to stopping the run, he's no more effective than Taylor or Kitchen.
    Anybody who would beat you up for that will have to get past me first.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by threesheets View Post
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    I'm behind Bowe. The guy has a proven good track record in the NFL but the receivers coach doesn't like him. Great, make it about personalities instead of putting the players on the field that can help the team.
    You're the first person this season that Bowe has gotten behind. Go Bowe, and take Gilbert with you.

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    Pettine is basically a grown adult at a NFL coaching fantasy camp at this point.

    His job is to smile, be positive, and supportive of the organization so he can get a positive reference for a saints position coach gig.

    As far as the players speaking out, I'm never a fan of that... But I can see a situation where it was a last resort for the players. Still, don't like it--but it's impossible to fairly judge with the information we know.
    Last edited by BoatShoes; 11-17-2015 at 12:25 AM.

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    you know it's the beginning of the end when you have unrest in the locker room. here's my prediction for Pettine and Oneil.........They gone
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnycomelately View Post
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    you know it's the beginning of the end when you have unrest in the locker room. here's my prediction for Pettine and Oneil.........They gone
    Thank you. But the most important move is to get Farmer the hell out of Berea and finally find a GM who understands how to draft talent and understands you need top quality at the offensive skill positions.

    I think a good defensive coach can work with most of the current defensive roster, except at linebacker and DE, where we need to re-engineer with better talent to improve the pass rush and tackling.

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    Interesting because I believe Gilbert should have been playing already and the rest of the year also. Bowe - as soon as he healed up, should have been starting over one of our smurfs from day one.

    You ever look at Bowe's history? Multiple years of 1k yards in receptions. He tailed off the last few years. People can say he was slowing down, but they had a qb change in KC along with the emergence of Charles that coincided with this and could explain that also.

    Bottom line is he is >6 foot tall and not a stick man, has strength to gain an extra yard and move the sticks in addition to being a much better target for our qbs to throw to.

    Btw, you don't invest 1st round draft picks in players that never see the field because of questionable coaching decisions (Gilbert) or popularity contests. Barring injury, these type of players must prove on the field that they are either NFL players or can't cut it in the NFL. There is no such thing as drafting a player that high, never playing them at their position for an extended period of time, then proclaiming them a bust. Any organization that does this will end up looking like - the Browns 2015, bereft of talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
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    You're the first person this season that Bowe has gotten behind. Go Bowe, and take Gilbert with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by threesheets View Post
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    Interesting because I believe Gilbert should have been playing already and the rest of the year also. Bowe - as soon as he healed up, should have been starting over one of our smurfs from day one.

    You ever look at Bowe's history? Multiple years of 1k yards in receptions. He tailed off the last few years. People can say he was slowing down, but they had a qb change in KC along with the emergence of Charles that coincided with this and could explain that also.

    Bottom line is he is >6 foot tall and not a stick man, has strength to gain an extra yard and move the sticks in addition to being a much better target for our qbs to throw to.

    Btw, you don't invest 1st round draft picks in players that never see the field because of questionable coaching decisions (Gilbert) or popularity contests. Barring injury, these type of players must prove on the field that they are either NFL players or can't cut it in the NFL. There is no such thing as drafting a player that high, never playing them at their position for an extended period of time, then proclaiming them a bust. Any organization that does this will end up looking like - the Browns 2015, bereft of talent.
    Sorry, three sheets. Enjoy your posts but I'm miles apart from you on Bowe. He's a waste in my opinion. But certainly you problem with you sharing your different view on the matter. That's what a chat board should allow people to do.

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    I dont know that there is, or is not a mutiny.. However.. I think its safe to say no one has faith in Pets or O'Neils scheme..I dont think Pet is hated.. Just maybe not completely trusted.
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    Yeah, I don't expect everyone to agree, doesn't change my viewpoint unless someone can get me some facts to make me look at players/situations in a new light. Others are entitled to their own regardless.

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    This team is already a mock up like The Replacements, what are we going to do if the team did hold a mutiny? Can we call Keanu to lead us to a 2-14 season? :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by threesheets View Post
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    Interesting because I believe Gilbert should have been playing already and the rest of the year also. Bowe - as soon as he healed up, should have been starting over one of our smurfs from day one.

    You ever look at Bowe's history? Multiple years of 1k yards in receptions. He tailed off the last few years. People can say he was slowing down, but they had a qb change in KC along with the emergence of Charles that coincided with this and could explain that also.

    Bottom line is he is >6 foot tall and not a stick man, has strength to gain an extra yard and move the sticks in addition to being a much better target for our qbs to throw to.

    Btw, you don't invest 1st round draft picks in players that never see the field because of questionable coaching decisions (Gilbert) or popularity contests. Barring injury, these type of players must prove on the field that they are either NFL players or can't cut it in the NFL. There is no such thing as drafting a player that high, never playing them at their position for an extended period of time, then proclaiming them a bust. Any organization that does this will end up looking like - the Browns 2015, bereft of talent.
    Excellent post and excellent points well stated.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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