View Poll Results: Did Johnny Manziel do enough today to earn his starting spot NEXT YEAR and for us NOT to draft a QB

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Thread: Johnny Manziel 33/45 73% comp 372 yds passing 17 yds rushing 1 PATD 1 INT - The beginning of the future?

  1. #1
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    Default Johnny Manziel 33/45 73% comp 372 yds passing 17 yds rushing 1 PATD 1 INT - The beginning of the future?

    Lets look at this from the perspective that Johnny is 22 years old and this was his FIFTH NFL START...

    -He led the team today in not only passing , of course, but in RUSHING.
    -Only player in his draft class to throw for over 350 yds within his first 5 starts.


    Another thing that stands out about his numbers in total THIS YEAR...

    -76/128 59% for 933yds 5 TD's 2 Int's with an 88.44 QBR

    -He also had, what the commentators referred to as the Longest Browns play of the year (on the pass to Benji)

    -He stayed in the pocket for the most part on everyone's request.

    -He made line calls, audibles, and seemed to know the playbook very well.

    -Had great control of the huddle.

    -Displayed great arm strength.

    -Showed us a vintage Johnny Football play that run!


    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-m...en-not-stirred

    Did Johnny Show enough today to earn his place for NEXT year as our starting QB.. as in, enough to make you NOT want to draft a QB?

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Lets look at this from the perspective that Johnny is 22 years old and this was his FIFTH NFL START...

    -He led the team today in not only passing , of course, but in RUSHING.
    -Only player in his draft class to throw for over 350 yds within his first 5 starts.


    Another thing that stands out about his numbers in total THIS YEAR...

    -76/128 59% for 933yds 5 TD's 2 Int's with an 88.44 QBR

    -He also had, what the commentators referred to as the Longest Browns play of the year (on the pass to Benji)

    -He stayed in the pocket for the most part on everyone's request.

    -He made line calls, audibles, and seemed to know the playbook very well.

    -Had great control of the huddle.

    -Displayed great arm strength.

    -Showed us a vintage Johnny Football play that run!


    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-m...en-not-stirred

    Did Johnny Show enough today to earn his place for NEXT year as our starting QB.. as in, enough to make you NOT want to draft a QB?
    Would love to see what he could do with some REAL football players around him on offense!

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    I voted no because although I feel he's done enough to warrant starting the rest of this year.... it's way too early to say he's earned it for next year.

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    http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media...3-c2f60ee0e2e5

    I thought he played really well (considering we have absolutely NO running game). I voted yes, but I think the jury is still out. But he's got the talent to be a good QB in this league. The Browns have too many other problems to draft another first round QB.

    I'd still take him over Winston, Mariota, or Bridgewater.

    Is there any possible way Pettine can start McCown over a healthy JFF again this season?
    Last edited by Martin Eden; 11-15-2015 at 06:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzDawg View Post
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    I voted no because although I feel he's done enough to warrant starting the rest of this year.... it's way too early to say he's earned it for next year.
    I agree with that. Johnny did look good. Passes were sharp. Stayed in the pocket long as he could. Wish he would take off running if no one is open. Penalties killed a lot of good plays. We need to throw deep time to time. Pittsburgh probably went deep in one game than we have the entire season! Overall, he looked like a quarterback that was confident. Just knowing Pettine, he will go back to McCown after the bye week.

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    He certainly earned the right to keep starting this year. I said yes because based purely on his improvement arc, you expect him to keep playing better with more first team reps (especially a bye). As young quarterbacks go, he's shown more than enough to believe he could be the long-term guy between the scrimmage and right now.

    Haslam's one on one with Pettine all but ensures Manziel will be the core of the season going forward. Grey, my comments on Pettine weren't based solely on Adkins but also Rappaport and LaConfora (blech) among others: Pettine seems inflexible on multiple levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzDawg View Post
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    I voted no because although I feel he's done enough to warrant starting the rest of this year.... it's way too early to say he's earned it for next year.
    I am not voting at all for the same reason.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Did Johnny Show enough today to earn his place for NEXT year as our starting QB.. as in, enough to make you NOT want to draft a QB?
    No.

    He had a good day but I need to see more.

    I think everyone should want to see more before crowning him this or crowning him that.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

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    The reason I asked and worded the question the way I did, is because most 1st rd QB's get 2 starting seasons to prove whether or not they have "it" yet so many people only want to give him a half.. maybe 1 full season.

    I mean hell.. we gave weeden how many games?

    20..

    We gave Weeden 20 games as starter. Yet some wanna call Johnny a bust after 8 or so..

    not even call him a bust really.. but only give him 8-10 games to prove himself.

    It just seems illogical.

    Therefore, I was hoping since he showed the ability to pass and play in the league today, his detractors would soften up and be willing to give him a LONG TERM tryout

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media...3-c2f60ee0e2e5

    I thought he played really well (considering we have absolutely NO running game). I voted yes, but I think the jury is still out. But he's got the talent to be a good QB in this league. The Browns have too many other problems to draft another first round QB.

    I'd still take him over Winston, Mariota, or Bridgewater.

    Is there any possible way Pettine can start McCown over a healthy JFF again this season?
    Yes, because it is the Pettine way.

    It should be understood that nobody, but nobody, tells Pettine what to do. His feet are set in concrete. The FO can either accept his decision to play McCown or they can fire him. It may be arbitrary, but Pettine embodies the notion and makes no apology.

    He has a four year contract and they can pay him to coach or they can pay him not to coach. Their choice.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    The reason I asked and worded the question the way I did, is because most 1st rd QB's get 2 starting seasons to prove whether or not they have "it" yet so many people only want to give him a half.. maybe 1 full season.

    I mean hell.. we gave weeden how many games?

    20..

    We gave Weeden 20 games as starter. Yet some wanna call Johnny a bust after 8 or so..

    not even call him a bust really.. but only give him 8-10 games to prove himself.

    It just seems illogical.

    Therefore, I was hoping since he showed the ability to pass and play in the league today, his detractors would soften up and be willing to give him a LONG TERM tryout
    The rest of the season is all that I would commit to at this time. And with Pettine in charge, good luck with even that.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Pettine will decide to start Johnny the rest of the way (didn't say anything about a "healthy" McCown still being the starter)... but I have a sense Haslam's one on one with him included that being part of the plan.

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    I think everyone knows what we have in Manziel, except our HC, who seems to be the only one in Berea who dislikes him.

    His improvement is more dramatic than I thought it would be. He has star potential. The Browns are still the wrong team for Manziel.

    You can't play and develop if every fan and the head coach analyzes how may sheets of toilet paper he uses before the game. It's only his 5th start and he nearly throws for 400 yards. Drops in the end zone, penalties that negate scores. All this with a small receiving corp and no running game.

    Manziel has started 5 games! His improvement is dramatic! Can you seriously argue that he's not going to get a lot better?

    Won't happen here though because he will still have some real clunker games coming. Just the way it is. He's not going to have the ability to play poorly here and there while continuing to develop.

    Last week, we were treated to an encyclopedia of proof positive analysis as to why Manziel can't be successful. The reason? He won't be able to hit check downs in the pocket! Some on here really lapped it up like good little poodles. What's the new excuse? Surely, there will be a new one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceWayne View Post
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    Last week, we were treated to an encyclopedia of proof positive analysis as to why Manziel can't be successful. The reason? He won't be able to hit check downs in the pocket! Some on here really lapped it up like good little poodles. What's the new excuse? Surely, there will be a new one.
    Sheesh.

    No one ever seems to read the responses that those apparent "hatah" posts are stemming from. Posts like, "Manziel is elite" and "Manziel should have been starting from the beginning" and "Manziel has arrived".

    Most of the cautionary posts regarding Manziel are simply voices of reason asking that we see some more before declaring him the answer. There's just no winning on this topic, however, because if you aren't over the top supporting of Manziel which requires panning everyone else (his OL, his receivers, his RB's, his coaches) you are considered negative.

    I thought he looked excellent today. I'm excited about it. Maybe the staff's development plan is working. (Naw Grey, there you go again. Manziel did well today in SPITE of the organization which is continuing to do everything possible to make him fail!)

    I'm also more fixated on my concern about the rest of this team as I have been most of the season. The QB room has been the least of my worries; again all year.

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    Cliff, you happy that Pettine was finally forced to play Cam Erving today?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzDawg View Post
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    I voted no because although I feel he's done enough to warrant starting the rest of this year.... it's way too early to say he's earned it for next year.
    I agree with Oz. I will say he looked good in the pocket, went through his progressions, and only ran when things completely broke down. Made some great plays outside the pocket. The one negative was the fumbled attempted pass on first play, but I've seen that happen to some of the best QBs. Receivers did not help much with drops and the one fumble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    Pettine will decide to start Johnny the rest of the way (didn't say anything about a "healthy" McCown still being the starter)... but I have a sense Haslam's one on one with him included that being part of the plan.
    Pray tell me what leverage Haslam has over Pettine. if Haslam demands anything, it becomes part of a 32 point presentation.

    Pettine has Haslam over a barrel--just part of Banner's magic. In addition to the cost of the rest of his contract, Haslam will probably have to pony up another million to insure Pettine's silence when he fires Pettine.
    Last edited by Brownsfan; 11-15-2015 at 07:48 PM.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Cliff, you happy that Pettine was finally forced to play Cam Erving today?
    The only thing regarding Pettine that would please me is Pettine being fired.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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    You're ducking Cliff and that's pretty dishonest of you my friend. Maybe, just maybe, the coaching staff is really playing the young guys that are ready to contribute. Erving proved he ain't ready by any stretch. That's also very discouraging since drafting an interior OL guy in the first HAS to be a sure thing. A guy who's a near lock to be effective right away. Man, that was just a dumb dumb pick as we sit here today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Sheesh.

    No one ever seems to read the responses
    Yeah that's pretty much the entire story. A lot of disconnect on here.

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    I would say I'm much more connected than most. I'm concerned about Johnny off the field. Read my posts.

    The disconnected are the fans who have said the following

    1. Manziel is a bust
    2. Actually believed that the Bengals 2014 game was an indication of his potential
    3. Those who viewed the QB sweep against the Panthers as proof of his lack of transferable playmaking skills in the NFL
    4. Those who argued that he needed to learn the playbook and moved on to the next excuse after he did
    5. Those who complained about his arm strength and the lack of a deep ball with Manziel and Hoyer last year, leading teams to stack the box. After the 3 long balls against the Jets and Titans, you just moved on to "Other than those great long TD passes, he really didn't do anything else.
    6. Playing on 1 1/2 days of walk through speed prep. He faces the undefeated Bengals on the road. Puts in a hell of a showing in the first half, making plays and putting up some points. Crucial drops and O line breakdowns during the first 3 possessions put the game out of reach. We then get treated to 24 hour coverage of a Bleacher report analysis that the Manziel haters compared to the Declaration of Independance. The new excuse is Johnny will just never be able to hit the check downs.
    7. Throws for nearly 375 yards with 70% + completion percentage today. Drops in the end zone. Scores killed by penalties. Guys getting BLOWN off the offensive line. A young QB hanging pretty tough in the pocket (mostly). Now the response is "I'm just not sure, I might need to see more". I'm sure another Bleacher report analysis is in the offing shortly.

    We have several on the board who start with the "I like Johnny", "I really want him to be the guy", "I love the Browns", and then proceed to trash him. Every time.

    Some Browns fans just don't want him to be successful. I know it sounds crazy, but true. He comes off as a cocky little SOB with rich parents and some major social life question marks. I'm sure one of our board members is walking around with severe Tourette's twitching and barking "snickers, snickers, snickers".

    He's going to be a pretty good QB for someone, unless he collapses off the field. Why not here? Are there better options available in the draft in the next few years? Probably, maybe, I would think so. Do I think the science of determining who it will be makes it an easy pick. Hell no. Does anyone think the Browns will nail it? Please.

    I'm rolling with JFF. Some ups and downs coming, but the kid is really starting to get it.

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    He did enough to earn a shot at starting the next game, he hasnt yet earned next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceWayne View Post
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    We have several on the board who start with the "I like Johnny", "I really want him to be the guy", "I love the Browns", and then proceed to trash him. Every time.
    I guess I'll buy that. There are some flat out haters. Not that I need you to or want you to "name names" but if you have me in that group I'd take issue. I think a lot of us are in the middle (and moving steadily to the Manziel camp as the season collapses and he continues to show growth).

    Good post though.

    I can't imagine any way he isn't the starting QB coming out of the bye and for the rest of the year. Again, its amazing how well our QB position has played this year and how horrible this team is. If you'd told me coming in McCown would be sitting with a 90+ passer rating having given way to Manziel who's sitting at a 90+ passer rating (guessing there as I haven't seen his updated season stats) I would have thought we'd be in the playoff hunt with Manziel leading us down the back stretch. I'd have been ecstatic.

    Instead, we're 2-8 with a defense that simply can not play any sort of football. Pretty shocking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    You're ducking Cliff and that's pretty dishonest of you my friend. Maybe, just maybe, the coaching staff is really playing the young guys that are ready to contribute. Erving proved he ain't ready by any stretch. That's also very discouraging since drafting an interior OL guy in the first HAS to be a sure thing. A guy who's a near lock to be effective right away. Man, that was just a dumb dumb pick as we sit here today.
    I haven't watched the game. I don't get to watch the game until tomorrow morning when there is no other game playing. Secondly, I don't believe I have even mentioned Erving except, perhaps, as part of a list of young players who need to play more. You made it sound like I have been hawking Erving specifically in multiple posts. Simply not true.

    But when a bunch of players who went relatively high in the draft are not playing and the vets that Pettine and O'Neil are playing are as bad as they have been, then whether in the mind of Pettine the youngsters are ready to play or not, I support playing the youngsters. I think they have a much better chance of getting better on the field than on the bench.

    Does that answer your question and is it honest enough for you?
    Last edited by Brownsfan; 11-15-2015 at 08:28 PM.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz

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