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Thread: Garoppolo Countdown, February Edition

  1. #49
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    Lord, JC, then add in 4 high-end free agents? Browns were named as the league's almost certain biggest spender this offseason so I'd expect 6 or 7 signees with 4 being near the top of their categories. They didn't roll over $50 mill for shits and giggles. They're gonna go get some guys for sure. I'd be looking at Tony Jefferson, Zeitler, and the Texans CB for starters.

    That's a shit ton of talent coming in. Can you imagine if Flash plays???

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    The value of Jimmy Garoppolo: How similar quarterback trades have played out for both sides
    http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...ck_trades.html
    "Hillary Clinton belongs in the White House. Donald Trump belongs on my show."--Jerry Springer
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    Ok, this talk is starting to get scary. I like Watson, but all this over analyzing the QB is scaring me. Screw QBs, just go with Myles. This is starting to get out of hand, in typical browns fashion. I want this team to take the first step in the right direction, but this QB talk is getting real messy.
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  4. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    Lord, JC, then add in 4 high-end free agents? Browns were named as the league's almost certain biggest spender this offseason so I'd expect 6 or 7 signees with 4 being near the top of their categories. They didn't roll over $50 mill for shits and giggles. They're gonna go get some guys for sure. I'd be looking at Tony Jefferson, Zeitler, and the Texans CB for starters.

    That's a shit ton of talent coming in. Can you imagine if Flash plays???
    This is typical reactionary crap by the media. The Browns are NOT going hog wild in FA. They may go for one stud but any others would be fillers. They will have 10 to 15 players to renew in years 3 and 4 of this assuming these drafts are average. No way they blow the cap before that.

    Also, as for the cap floor, the Browns are comfortably OVER that and dont need to spend.

    But the biggest reason they wont go nuts in FA is it puts players in front of the draft picks and stunts their growth.
    Last edited by DawgFan; 02-14-2017 at 08:56 PM.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.


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  5. #53
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    I still think it's entirely likely the Patriots don't move Jimmy at all.

    - I suspect the decision to let it be known he is available is merely the chance for New England to see if anyone will blow them away. Much like Lombardi originally pumped, two first round picks. Or even just an extremely high first round pick.
    - This results from the acknowledgement that it's a pretty weak QB draft. The hope a bidding frenzy could skyrocket his value as QB needy teams, who don't love this QB draft class, fight over his services.
    - Sources say the Patriots feel Brady has 3-5 years left. They can keep Jimmy through 2017. That would make it 2-4 years left, with Brady turning 41, the oldest a QB has had sustained success in NFL history.
    - The Patriots genuinely could franchise tag Jimmy through 2018. It puts them in a difficult position, but it could happen. I've actually wondered if he'd consider signing a one year deal, "You give us one more year with Brady and then you're the future." That would take Brady to 1-3 years left, turning 42.
    - At that point, I wouldn't be surprised if Tom simply decided to hang up the boots, even if he felt he had another year or two in them. I can see Brady being competitive for as long as possible, I can't see him waiting around if he knows it puts the Patriots in a tough situation.

    I don't know, I just don't feel like Jimmy is actually going to get the insane value the Patriots are seemingly looking for.
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  6. #54
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    Agreed. Like I said early on, Bill is on a fishing expedition hoping to hook a sucker. I wont take the bait.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.


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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    The Patriots genuinely could franchise tag Jimmy through 2018.
    The franchise tag for a QB in 2018 will be over 25 million. Cousins gets 24 million if the Redskins franchise him this year.

    No way the Pats are going to pay Garappolo 25 million + in 2018 to be Brady's backup.

    That said, I agree they may just keep him for 2017 at his cheap price as insurance just in case Brady hits the wall (which I don't think will happen). Brady says he can play at a high level until he's 45. We will see.

    But unless Brady gets hurt or falls apart, Garappolo will not be on NE's roster in 2018.
    "That is the long *%#@ of truth that you both continue to juggle around your mouth..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    The franchise tag for a QB in 2018 will be over 25 million. Cousins gets 24 million if the Redskins franchise him this year.

    No way the Pats are going to pay Garappolo 25 million + in 2018 to be Brady's backup.

    That said, I agree they may just keep him for 2017 at his cheap price as insurance just in case Brady hits the wall (which I don't think will happen). Brady says he can play at a high level until he's 45. We will see.

    But unless Brady gets hurt or falls apart, Garappolo will not be on NE's roster in 2018.
    I've seen it said quite a few times they're more than happy to do it if they don't get the offer they're looking for. It does seem fucked, he and Brady would combine for something mental like $47M dollars on the season. They have a lot of players off contract over the next two years, though, and Bill seems like the kind of guy who would legitimately let three mid-level players walk so they could afford Jimmy while backing himself to find unheralded young talent to fill the gap for a single year.

    I just can't shake it because it's Belichick. Anyone else, I'd say it was too much. Him, though, I genuinely think it's not a stretch to believe he's got some young kids waiting in the wings who can take over, while he's no stranger to getting veteran players to restructure deals that aren't team friendly.

    I still think it's not a stretch for him to sign a friendly one year deal with the Patriots, knowing he'll be the guy in 2019. He could even sign a back heavy contract extension that won't pay him much in the first year but will pay plenty over the long term.

    All I know is this - The Patriots are said to think Brady has anywhere between 3-5 years left. That is 2-4 years by the time Jimmy's contract runs dry. No matter how great he is, they wouldn't let Jimmy go if he was going to be the face of the franchise for someone. No two years is worth the loss of 10+ with someone you think is a legitimate franchise QB.

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    I question whether Brady would play into his mid 40s anyway. He is physically capable of it by all accounts, but the amount of prep he does and all that he has already accomplished make me think he would retire after another year or two. He is a competitor so it's hard to know for sure, but with nothing left to prove, he may be ready to call it a career and spend more time with his wife and kids.
    When you think things can't get much worse... Browns gonna Brown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
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    The franchise tag for a QB in 2018 will be over 25 million. Cousins gets 24 million if the Redskins franchise him this year.
    Cousins is getting $24M because he has already been franchise tagged for the 2016 season. That means this time it will cost Washington 120% of his current contract...or nearly $24M.

    For the Pats...this year they would have JG at his base...then in 2018 the tag likely be $23.5M as it seems to go up about $2M a year...but that is not guaranteed as it depends on the top 10 contracts...and there are no big ones coming up this year...so it may stay roughly the same.

    Tom Brady has a history of playing with his numbers...like his last contract he only made $1M a year for the first 2 years. Rumor has it he will extend again...and it means he likely will do the same thing. That means his cap hit would only be about $14M.

    This brings that expected $47M down to only $37M...and don't be surprised if it is even lower.

    So...short answer is...the Pats COULD hold on to JG if they wanted to...and it really wouldn't be that bad (they currently have $60M under the cap).
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    The only way Garoppolo would be a Pat in 2018 is if they keep him next year and Brady sustains a major injury. If he plays great again and is the starter going into 2018 (most likely scenario), they can't compete. Period. They don't have a starting job for a guy entering his 5th year in the league OR starter money. Not happening.

    Could they decide that's okay and keep him for insurance next year? Sure. I don't think it's out of the question. McDaniels indicated to anybody he talked to about an HC position that he'd like to go after Garoppolo so we know he agrees with Shanahan that Garoppolo is really good. Pretty much everybody who goes on record thinks he's really good. Why wouldn't they?

    I'm sure the Bears, Browns, and obviously Niners think he's really good. That's not so much the question. It's about making a reasonably fair trade... and I say reasonably because he's a QB and fairness kinda goes out the window when it comes to THE position. If a guy was a highly rated draft pick (who would've gone 26th if Shanahan had his way) who has shown off a little in the pros (like, say, a 119 passer rating) and he's not broken in two? He's gonna be worth a lot. He just is.

    There are other ways to go for sure. But I'm not buying a double down (like Taylor AND Mahomes) because signing Taylor when he wouldn't renegotiate for the Bills is gonna cost 3 years for at least 45 mill. They won't commit like that AND draft Mahomes at 33 (or in a trade up). It's more likely they'd keep RG3 on the cheap and draft Mahomes around 28.

    But again, I don't see the Browns viewing the QB position as the stuff of 28th picks. But that's just my sense of things. I don't look at what's available (Trubisky, Watson, Garoppolo, Kizer, Taylor, Mahomes, Webb) and say, "God, what garbage!!" I think the Browns need to decide who they like BEST... because at QB, it's not about bargain shopping.

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    Right. Evaluate properly and choose the guy you will get behind and be committed to for 2-3 years at least.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16
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    PD article, Edelman the second one to compare Garoppolo to Rodgers (McCown was first). Loves playing with him, calls him a gunslinger. Pats are definitely putting out some messaging ("He's great, but maybe he isn't available after all") to pimp a trade. Shrewd stuff.

    I personally think he'd be the big get of all the available QBs, rookies and young trade targets or free agents. But I dig Trubisky and I can't quite quit Watson (Brokeback ref!!). He does kind of rope you in (second ref!) with the clutch, big-time performer thing. No stage is too big.

    I know I've said it a thousand times (when don't I?)... but I'll be stunned if one of those three isn't a Brown. And any one of the three would be aimed at starting opening day so the Browns can do anything and everything to get him as many reps as possible.

    That would be my approach. Don't create a self-fulfilling prophesy: He isn't ready because we didn't really try to get him ready, so basically he's about where he was this time last year (!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    McDaniels indicated to anybody he talked to about an HC position that he'd like to go after Garoppolo
    Im not calling bullshit on this...but where did you aquire this info?
    just beat it

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    I can't see ANY possible reason that McDaniels would try to push Garoppolo's stock up. Can we get some actual opinions from people who might not have 'skin in the game'?

    'Hey the Patriots say he's the best ever! We should believe them!'
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    OMG The world is ending... I agree with Shep about Watson and I liked a Dawgfan post.....What the hell kind of bizzaro world is this? Is this one of those flashback acid trips they warned us about back in 60's-70's?

    Last edited by Brownsfan1956; 02-16-2017 at 12:19 PM.
    Well here we are mired in an 0-11 season headed for 0-16 with a bullet and some are saying how much the team has improved... This is what Browns fans have become? Thats sad.Somewhere Otto Graham, Lou Groza, Marion Motley are sad...art modell as he burns in hell is laughing and many of us are just pissed off.
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    Ed Werner from ESPN reporting the Patriots are unlikely to trade Jimmy, citing sources in the building.

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    Regarding why the Patriots would keep Jimmy if Brady could play four more years, from MMQB.

    It’s because Belichick looks at Garoppolo as best potential QB heir he’s had since Brady. Brady is 40 in August. Garoppolo may be 1-year bandaid. But who knows where NE QB situation is next year? Gut is they keep him, as I have said consistently.
    MMQB has been saying for a while that Jimmy isn't going anywhere, but that one is based more on a line of thought that rumors, such as the Ed Werner claim.

    I still agree with this. I think because Brady has been so remarkable, and just had such a dominant season, that it's easy to think father time won't apply to him. Yet, some of the best quarterbacks in NFL history has seen the sudden, sharp decline in play that comes with being over the age of 40. By the end of next year, he legitimately could be showing signs of slowing down. He could happen sooner. It might not happen at all.

    The question, though, is what value makes such a roll of the dice so worthy? Does the 12th overall pick really make you get rid of Jimmy? If it does, and Brady does start to slow down in 2017, that's not at all worth it.

    Interestingly enough, I still don't think it's worth it even if Brady does play the 3-4 more years they think he can. At the end of next season, that's 2-3 more years. If I really thought Jimmy was the future, there just isn't any way I'd let him walk just for 2-3, at best, more years with the GOAT.

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    Albert Breer, who's about as imbedded in the Patriots as it gets, "respectfully disagrees" (!). Duh. Of course they're moving him.

    That said, even if nobody's dumb enough to believe it, it's a good thing to start acting like maybe he's not THAT available.

    (They have to trade him or lose him for nothing in one year. It's that simple.)

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    Would be pretty funny if JG, KC, and TT stay. Then it comes down to Tony Romo or draft at 1.
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    Like I said, a Brady extension frees up cash for JG...they can give JG a nice 4yr contract worth $40 over 4 yrs with escalators if he becomes starter and he gets to stay with NE instead of going to a bad team in rebuild.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Feel like Garoppolo's gonna end up with Chicago. Just makes too much sense on their end.

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    It still feels meant to be (Browns #12 for Garoppolo).

    Just watched Breer (one of the most listenable guys, smart, has contacts, especially tapped into Patriots) clip: He says his colleagues aren't really "wrong," per se... but yes, the Patriots are moving Garoppolo unless they don't get what they believe is fair based on the recent market, which is a first round pick. Why? Because they think very highly of him... but they also know they can't keep him past 2017.

    (No, Garoppolo isn't signing an extension to be Brady's caddy for 3-4 more years. Nobody thinks that.)

    But Breer believes from all he's heard that the Browns are extremely high on Garoppolo and will negotiate with two chips: First the 33rd and eventually the 12th. Conceptually, they like what the Raiders did with Mack and Carr and can replicate it with Garrett and Garoppolo. The Bears and Niners are both in the game but it feels like the perfect fit is the Browns #12 for Jimmy.

    Also, Matt Miller is being told that Trubisky is the one lock QB for the top five. He's at the top of the board for the Niners and Bears so one or the other is taking him. It's widely assumed the Browns will take Garrett.

    Just about everything else the Browns do in the draft will be determined by free agency, where they're generally expected to be a serious player (again, 109 mill). My guess is we'll see players connected to coaches like Trumaine Johnson and Kevin Zeitler, and at least a couple other substantial additions. I've heard they love Jon Cyprien and will go hard for the tackling machine (139 from his SS spot). I could see those three at the highest end and then a couple more lesser known guys with upside.

    If that's the case, I'd look at a FS at #33, even with Poyer returning and Reynolds playing well. Budda Baker makes shit tons of sense next to Jon Cyprien. You draft Pocic at 52 and you've addressed all the clearest needs at that point. From the first pick in round 3 through a handful of tradable fours, it's about less pressing additions (TE? Another WR? ILB? DT?). Some of those will also come in free agency.

    Love everything about this plan. Me personally, I'd use a 4 to nudge that 3rd rounder into the second round and get my favorite 3-tech DT.

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