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Thread: Sashi Brown - One of the Best GM's?

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    Default Sashi Brown - One of the Best GM's?

    Not exactly the type of thing you would expect to find in print...a guy that has zero experience on a 1 win team after a complete tear down. In fact, most would expect the criticism of Sashi and DePodesta to continue even after they put together a winning team. But that is the MSM...the old guard...and not the guys that are slowly taking over the sport of football. You know, smart, forward thinking, analytical...and willing to break with tradition.

    So here it is...

    http://sportsnaut.com/2017/03/sashi-...gers-football/
    Browns’ Sashi Brown already one of the best general managers in football

    Sashi Brown is already one of the NFL's top general managers

    Written by Ethan Sears

    The NFL is stuck in the past, both culturally and in regards to the game of football itself. While other sports have transitioned to an analytics-friendly approach since the turn of the century and reaped rewards, the NFL has lagged behind. When the Cleveland Browns hired Sashi Brown — someone without a long background in football who trusts in computers — as their general manager, they were universally laughed at for no reason other than going outside of the mainstream.

    If any team should have been looking for an unconventional approach, however, it was the Browns. One playoff game since (this version of) the team has existed will drive one to extremes, but a year into the project, things look great.

    Sure, the Browns were 1-15 last season, but that was a given. Brown had implemented a full-scale teardown — the football version of Sam Hinkie’s process — and Cleveland is now primed to build the core of a championship team over the next few drafts.

    Building this way is at the top of a long list of things other teams should be doing. Why? At a given time, there are between 20 and 24 quarterbacks you can fathom having under center on a title-winning team. Of those, about eight require a historically good defense to take a team far into the playoffs. In short, if you don’t have a top-12 quarterback, you’re probably screwed. This is the basis by which all football transactions are made, regardless of whether a team adheres to analytics or not.

    So, if you don’t have one of these quarterbacks with whom you can win a title, how do you get one? The answer, by-and-large, is at the top of the draft. Few top quarterbacks become free agents or are available in trades. Teams fishing for quarterbacks in these areas are usually the same teams that end up giving the Brock Osweilers of the world $72 million (more on that later). The Browns understand this, so they’re hoarding draft picks like gold.

    Suddenly, instead of fishing for Jay Cutler in free agency, Cleveland has multiple appealing options. And they can wait until the right one comes along instead of rushing into the first semi-appealing draft pick, as evidenced by trading the No. 2 overall pick last season instead of drafting Carson Wentz.

    In a year such as this — without quarterbacks filling the top of the draft — the Browns have an easy choice to take the best player — Myles Garrett, a defensive end.

    From there, they can trade the No. 12 pick (acquired in the Wentz trade) in a package for Patriots quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo, take Davis Webb in the second round if he’s available, or simply ignore the quarterback position and start Brock Osweiler this year.

    The last option would result in another losing season, and with it the Browns would have a legitimate chance to draft UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen, Washington State’s Luke Falk or another top quarterback option. Cleveland can do whatever it likes, giving it the best chance to build up a foundation.

    Tanking also opens up another option that we’ve never seen in the NFL (at least until earlier this month): taking on negative assets in exchange for picks. The Browns have cap space in droves and no chance of competing next year, so they took Osweiler and got Houston’s 2018 second rounder in exchange.

    They can keep doing things like this until they build their desired foundation. The Jets want to offload Muhammad Wilkerson’s five-year, $86 million deal? That’ll be a second and third rounder. The Chiefs decide Eric Fisher isn’t worth $48 million over four years? They can get rid of him, if they’re willing to offer up a 2019 second rounder in exchange.

    Every bad team should be replicating this. Look at the Jets’ history since 2011. They’ve started (among others), Mark Sanchez, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Geno Smith at quarterback. They’ve missed the playoffs every year, going over .500 just once. Right now, it looks like their quarterback in 2017 will be either Josh McCown, Jay Cutler or Bryce Petty. The only way for them to compete is to draft a franchise quarterback, but there’s enough talent on the roster to go 5-11 next season. In short, they’re stuck in mediocrity.

    Isn’t it better to tear down and be godawful for two years than suffer through ten years where 8-8 is the ceiling?

    The only other team that values draft picks the way Cleveland does just so happens to be the New England Patriots. Why? Because Bill Belichick (and his analytics guru Ernie Adams) understands that building through the draft results in a constant churn of good, young players.

    The Browns have merely taken it to the extreme because, well, they’re not starting with Tom Brady on their team. Soon, they too will reap the rewards.
    Finally someone is willing to look beyond the record and the stigma placed on 'moneyball' to see that the actual strategy being implemented by the Browns is not only valid, but may very well be the template of team rebuilds going forward. For those who think the Browns MUST win this coming year (Grossi, MKC) and so MUST trade for the next Osweiler (JG)...they are not paying attention. They are not listening to the Browns leadership. They are imposing THEIR criteria on a team that has rejected that type of thinking in lieu of a non-tradition football approach. One that..IMHO...will bring the Browns and their fans a much deserved return to not only relevance...but year in and year out championship aspirations.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't coving for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.


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    Waaaaaayyyy to early. It looks like they're making mostly good decisions, but still to early for me.

    That's like saying last years draft was good or bad. It's just to soon to say. Nassib missed a ton of games as did Coleman and Coleman. If they can play a whole season we'll have a better idea what to expect and wouldn't it be great if Orchard got going?
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16
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    Oh, I agree that it is very early...in fact too early...to DECLARE him one of the best of anything. I just find it nice that finally there is a willingness to look beyond the sniggering John Clayton's, Toni Grossi's, and multitude of ESPN coat-tailers to see that in reality this is a valid path to build a team.

    I also find it funny how many refuse to admit that BB is a HUGE analytics guy. Remember the game he want for it on 4th and 2 against the Manning led Colts (and missed it)? That was 100% an analytics call.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't coving for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Unless he starts listening to self proclaimed QB experts on message boards and starts pissing away highly valued and

    difficult to acquire draft capital on unproven backup QBs the answer is YES.

    If memory serves:

    The current front office arrangement had Sashi being only one voice among four when decisions are being made.

    If the group can't reach a consensus then the FINAL decision is up to Sashi.

    There were stories about this arrangement dating back to when the current F.O. group was being assembled but,

    I'm at work and I'm to lazy to look for it.

    Technically he's a G.M. but he's not acting alone. Not thinking or evaluating or planning alone either.


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    when Sushi Boi wins something.. then we\ll talk.. right now.. even putting him in conversation with "best".. Is assinine!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDneighbor View Post
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    Unless he starts listening to self proclaimed QB experts on message boards and starts pissing away highly valued and

    difficult to acquire draft capital on unproven backup QBs the answer is YES.

    If memory serves:

    The current front office arrangement had Sashi being only one voice among four when decisions are being made.

    If the group can't reach a consensus then the FINAL decision is up to Sashi.

    There were stories about this arrangement dating back to when the current F.O. group was being assembled but,

    I'm at work and I'm to lazy to look for it.

    Technically he's a G.M. but he's not acting alone. Not thinking or evaluating or planning alone either.
    I remember the stories surounding the FO and will confirm them, but I'm also to lazy to look them up.

    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16
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    Pretty sure to be a good GM you need to hit on your top picks most of the time. The jury is very much still out. You also have to understand the rule changes in this league and the fact that it is a QB league and therefore be willing to invest draft capital in the most important position in the game.

    You also need to be willing to understand that the rare opportunity of investing in a franchise caliber QB doesn't come along very often so you can't be afraid to pull the trigger when the opportunity is there rather than going with popular opinion.
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    Pittsburgh beat writer on CBD just now listing player after player they've missed on. Says they've done 3 Gilbert-like trades that haven't worked out - not super happy.

    But, it's all good. Why? They have the QB, the HC, and have a pile of wins annually.

    Sash gets the QB and he'll look like a top-flight GM. Otherwise, these slick moves will be forgotten quickly.
    2017 Draft picks: #1, #12, #33, #52, #65, #108, #145, #175, #181, #185, #188 - 11 total
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - Two in 2nd (Eagles/Wentz & Texans/Osweiler), a 4th (Panthers/punter), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 11 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, S. Coleman, Kessler, Drango, Kindred, 2017 #12 (Eagles) & #52 (Titans), 2018 2nd rnd (Eagles) pick
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    And really, how good is Tomlin as a HC? Not very good without Big Gay Ben. You either find your QB, or you lose your job.
    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    Pretty sure to be a good GM you need to hit on your top picks most of the time. The jury is very much still out. You also have to understand the rule changes in this league and the fact that it is a QB league and therefore be willing to invest draft capital in the most important position in the game.

    You also need to be willing to understand that the rare opportunity of investing in a franchise caliber QB doesn't come along very often so you can't be afraid to pull the trigger when the opportunity is there rather than going with popular opinion.
    Agree.

    IMHO:

    I couldn't care less where Garrett ends up. Not until after the the first overall selection is made.

    If I had my druthers, The Browns would be negotiating a contract with Mitchell Trubisky right now.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NDneighbor View Post
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    If memory serves:

    The current front office arrangement had Sashi being only one voice among four when decisions are being made.

    If the group can't reach a consensus then the FINAL decision is up to Sashi.

    There were stories about this arrangement dating back to when the current F.O. group was being assembled but,

    I'm at work and I'm to lazy to look for it.

    Technically he's a G.M. but he's not acting alone. Not thinking or evaluating or planning alone either.
    I recall something to this degree as well although I read that after some time with DePodesta on board that the heirarchy of the FO was changed once again and basically DePodesta/Analytic is on the same 'tier' as Sashi.

    This is from January '16

    The Cleveland Browns are trying to reinvent the wheel again.
    Owner Jimmy Haslam sent shockwaves throughout Northeast Ohio on Sunday evening by announcing the promotion of Sashi Brown to executive vice president of football operations and saying the club would pursue a head coach before a general manager.
    As Haslam admitted, no other team employs this structure.
    Just as surprising, Haslam said Brown will have final say in personnel decisions. Brown formerly served as executive vice president / general counsel. The Harvard grad is a lawyer with experience in football business and the salary cap, but little to no experience in personnel.
    Haslam dismissed the importance of structure during his presser:
    "I have looked and spent a lot of time over the last year looking at NFL teams and then other professional sports teams in terms of how they are organized. You can look at New England, Green Bay and Seattle, and they are all organized differently and they all have been very successful. I will just reiterate what I say: I don’t think structure is quite as important as right people in the right place and everybody understanding their roles and working well together."
    Whether or not Haslam is willing to admit it, structure plays a critical role in an organization. Thus, I wanted to illustrate what the organization will look like under Haslam's new model.
    According to Haslam's statements, here is a rough sketch of the new organizational structure:

    Please excuse the rudimentary nature of the graphic, as I created it in Microsoft Word and Paint. Regardless, this graphic represents what we know about Haslam's organizational plan.
    A few critical pieces of the puzzle:
    1. Brown has the final say over personnel decisions. However, the draft will be a collaborative process, as Haslam envisions it. The general manager and head coach will have a say in who the team selects, though Brown will have the power to make the final decision.
    2. The new head coach will have limited control of personnel. This decision eliminates the "football czar" candidates such as Nick Saban, Mike Shanahan, etc. In other words, don't expect Mike Holmgren to make a return appearance.
    3. Scheiner will not have a say in the hiring of the general manager or coach. According to Haslam, Scheiner will not serve on the committee appointed to hire a head coach and a general manager. Scheiner will remain primarily on the business side. The team president still wields significant power in Berea, but not on the football operations end.
    4. Haslam will have fuller control over team operations. Under this structure, three people will report directly to Haslam -- Brown, Scheiner, and the new head coach. Haslam will have direct contact with the three major portions of the Browns, allowing him to have more control. Haslam is not a reincarnation of Randy Lerner; he does not seem willing to utilize a hands-off approach.
    5. The new structure limits general manager candidates. As Tom Pelissero of USA TODAY wrote, "Because Brown will have 53-man roster control, other teams can block their scouts from interviewing for the "GM" job – instantly removing many quality candidates from the pool." The new head coach will have a significant say in the next general manager, limiting this person's power.
    More information on structure and candidates for head coach and general manager will emerge in the coming days, but Haslam's new plan looks ambitious.
    According to the structure, Haslam is placing his trust in two key people -- Brown and Scheiner. These will shoulder the load of leading the team and creating the culture. Both are bright, young individuals. The two lack one critical characteristic, however -- Football knowledge and GM skills.
    Will Brown and Scheiner succeed in the quest to lead the Browns out of mediocrity? Time will tell, as will the duo's first two hires.
    UPDATE (TUESDAY, 3:00 PM): Following the hire of Paul DePodesta, the team's new chief strategy officer (story here), I decided to update the structure diagram.
    Admittedly, the structure is not yet complete and might not be 100% fully accurate. However, this is the best chart using all of the information we have at hand.
    Here's the new chart:

    Thoughts? Tell us what you think in the comments section.


    Obviously, Scheiner is out so my guess is DePodesta simply took his place in the hierarchy. I couldn't find anything more recent in a brief google search spanning roughly 3-5 minutes time.
    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
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    I remember when the Browns promoted Ray Farmer to GM and how happy we all were told to be. We were told by insiders and outsiders that Farmer was a young, bright guy, and the GM of the future. We also were told he was a sought-after GM, and that the final competition was down to Miami and Cleveland. When Cleveland got him, I recall fans cheering our "victory." So I think I'm going to wait until the Browns starting winning consistently before I echo how great Sashi is.
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    Yeah... Ray Farmer crashed and burned really bad didn't he? lmao...
    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


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    He might be a bright guy, but I like to judge him after 3 years rather than 1 short draft. He will have a whole year looking at players which would make better decisions than last year.
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    WAY too early to say he is one of the better GM's. It hinges on last years draft coming along and what Sashi with DePo and Hie can accomplish in this draft. If they nail it like they nailed FA then yeah, you can start wondering if he is up there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJP View Post
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    I remember when the Browns promoted Ray Farmer to GM and how happy we all were told to be. We were told by insiders and outsiders that Farmer was a young, bright guy, and the GM of the future. We also were told he was a sought-after GM, and that the final competition was down to Miami and Cleveland. When Cleveland got him, I recall fans cheering our "victory." So I think I'm going to wait until the Browns starting winning consistently before I echo how great Sashi is.
    Farmer was hired because of the NFL quota system. Not because he was the best man for the job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Kings View Post
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    WAY too early to say he is one of the better GM's. It hinges on last years draft coming along and what Sashi with DePo and Hie can accomplish in this draft. If they nail it like they nailed FA then yeah, you can start wondering if he is up there.
    I know it's early but.......I can't knock the moves last year to get picks this year, and this year (so far) to add picks next year. I like Shelton, Ogbah, Nassib, Collins, and Kirksey on defense although I know you disagree with some or all of those guys but I look at them as pieces of the puzzle. Add Garrett (or insert you D guy) and a guy like Adams, Hooker, or Lattimore or any number of guys coming out, and I think this defense shapes up pretty fast. Horton is fucking gone and the Williams hire? I think we all knew it was gonna take a few years when they started dumping (purging) guys last year and still are. No doubt the offense needs some work but grabbing Zeit and Tretter is an "improvement" (maybe Joe told them "get me some help or I'm done").

    Last year I was as disappointed and disheartened as anyone.

    Don't get me wrong. Don't think I'm not skeptical "show me don't tell me" but as of right now, I'm liking what I'm seeing.......for the moment I don't know how you don't root for a guy like Sashimi. With a last name like Brown?
    Last edited by Stray Dawg; 6 Days Ago at 01:38 AM.
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    First DF, your blind allegiance to statistics is borderline religion. Even when itfails you still swear by it. I admire that level of commitment and I mean that sincerely. However, when you start calling sashdouche great or near the top I think you have smoked too much haslam weed. The guys draft last year was meh. He had a better than expected free agency period this year (still not stellar) and it remains to be seen what kind of draft he will put together. So I am far from sold on him. Having said that.....

    He has a ton of draft picks to work with BUT we have seen this before here haven't we? farmer had a shit ton of picks also and managed to fuck those uo beyond anything anyone had ever done. Until sash proves he is something more than an Ivy League Ray farmer, I am not getting my hopes up nor assigning him premature greatness. Remember this, the same guy hired both farmer and sash...That same moron hired banner and lombardi also. So while I understand stats give you wood, in the NFL only wins and losses matter. Right now now thats 1-15 for this guy. To quote a really solid football guy, "You are what your record says you are"
    Go Browns. Winning the Super Bowl will be the best revenge on those who laugh at us. I live for that day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownsfan1956 View Post
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    First DF, your blind allegiance to statistics is borderline religion. Even when itfails you still swear by it. I admire that level of commitment and I mean that sincerely.
    I readily and willingly admit I am a statistical nerd. Always have been, always will be...so this analytics move is right up my alley. With that said...I also agree there is a long way to go...and analytics is only as good as the people interpreting the data.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't coving for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownsfan1956 View Post
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    First DF, your blind allegiance to statistics is borderline religion. Even when itfails you still swear by it. I admire that level of commitment and I mean that sincerely. However, when you start calling sashdouche great or near the top I think you have smoked too much haslam weed. The guys draft last year was meh. He had a better than expected free agency period this year (still not stellar) and it remains to be seen what kind of draft he will put together. So I am far from sold on him. Having said that.....

    He has a ton of draft picks to work with BUT we have seen this before here haven't we? farmer had a shit ton of picks also and managed to fuck those uo beyond anything anyone had ever done. Until sash proves he is something more than an Ivy League Ray farmer, I am not getting my hopes up nor assigning him premature greatness. Remember this, the same guy hired both farmer and sash...That same moron hired banner and lombardi also. So while I understand stats give you wood, in the NFL only wins and losses matter. Right now now thats 1-15 for this guy. To quote a really solid football guy, "You are what your record says you are"
    And if we endure another season like we just had.. Sushi boi wont keep a job very long..
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickers View Post
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    And if we endure another season like we just had.. Sushi boi wont keep a job very long..
    If that is the case, then I question if Haslam has learned anything. Again...no GM or HC has had more than 2 years since the return. Too many restarts keeps you always at the starting gate and never finishing. I would hope...no matter the record...that if progress can be seen on tape and in the building that this group gets at least 1 more year...and preferably 2 more years to prove the concept.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't coving for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    If that is the case, then I question if Haslam has learned anything. Again...no GM or HC has had more than 2 years since the return. Too many restarts keeps you always at the starting gate and never finishing. I would hope...no matter the record...that if progress can be seen on tape and in the building that this group gets at least 1 more year...and preferably 2 more years to prove the concept.
    I don't think it will be the case. The trades and picks all seems to be "consensus" decisions. One go? They all go......
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    I'm definitely intrigued (in a good way) by the Sashi-Hue combo. I like hearing Hue's clarity about the QB position. I like Sashi's giant balls and willingness to have a distinctive and comprehensive plan that's actually based on team building truths, not tropes.

    I like so many guys from last year's draft, I really think it's gonna end up being a very good one. We're in the middle of three Aprils that should produce about 40 Browns (including UDFAs) which is pretty radical shit. But it's radical shit based on the fact that the teams who draft the most win the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    who draft the most win the most.
    Shep I think that's about a half bubble off plumb...Teams that draft best the most win the most. Otherwise ray farmer would a hof'er
    Go Browns. Winning the Super Bowl will be the best revenge on those who laugh at us. I live for that day.
    Like Stray Dawg liked this post.

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