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Thread: God is real. Hue Jackson is gone. (according to e-mails from #Browns coaching staff)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    committing to Kizer for next season starts to look pretty damn logical.
    More logical than starting over with another rookie QB, rookie coach and new FO? Shep, I don't even know you anymore.



    It's so much on the rookie QB at this point. He can make everyone look good, or he can cause it all to start over, again.

    Then we generate a list of favorites, pump them up, swear it'll be different this time, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat,....
    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 EXTRA Draft picks: a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), a 5th (Chiefs/Cam) - 12 total
    2019 EXTRA picks: 7th rnd (w/ Coates)
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
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    I know, seems out of character, right? But like you said, another rookie in a new offense brings more "patience," and I'm about hamster wheeled out.

    If he isn't the guy, he isn't the guy. But right now he's the closest thing I've seen since... hmm... hell, I don't know the last time I watched a game like I did Sunday and said, "Browns rookie QB looked like the real deal."

    In the end, maybe it was the exception instead of the rule... but I saw a guy doing things differently, displaying legit progress. REALLY tough test coming to town so, much like Baker V. TCU, this'll tell us a lot. Sadly we may be protecting him with a pair of backup tackles against Sacksonville.

    Might have to give him a pass if he's under siege all day. Unique situation with pass rush team and two injured tackles.
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    Jacksonville will leave "no quarter". Neither will the fans of a losing franchise..........oh I'm sure a few will leave safe passage but that's an argument left for post game at the moment, he is treading water.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    I saw that too...and there are a few things that may explain the discrepency
    1) Youth - only 13 players are in their 4th year or longer...and over half of the starters are either rookies or 2nd year players
    2) System - this is only the 2nd year in this offensive system...and 1st in the defensive system

    This is the part that NEEDS continuity. It takes the average player 2-3 years to come into their prime...and it is not just years, but years IN THE SAME SYSTEM. As NOBODY (even the vets) have been in this system more than 1-2 years, there is a HUGE learning curve.

    When you are learning, you are making mistakes. When half the players on the field are in their 1st or 2nd year, you are making mistakes. The D in particular can be dominating...but it has too many breakdowns where 1 player out of position costs them a big/important play. TIME and EXPERIENCE will eliminate a lot of that. On offense? Shit...that is where I believe the talent level to be lower...especially at the 'skills' positions. The Browns need to give DeValve and Njoku and Coleman...and yes Kizer...more time to develop...but they need more at WR and likely at RB.

    But, despite the howls, this all needs CONTINUITY to get this time and experience. Unless somehow Haslam is able to find the one GM and HC that will actually use the current players on the roster the right way and not force them into HIS plan (square peg/round hole)...hence forcing ANOTHER total rebuild.
    Any new FO is going to want to remake the team in their own image and put their own mark on the team. It is just the nature of things. They might give an inch on the systems to be employed, but not the personnel.

    Any new head coach is going to want to implement the systems of his choices. It is just the nature of things. He might be willing to compromise on personnel if they fit his system, but not the systems of his preference.

    How many times have we changed the FO and head coach. How many times have there been a wholesale change of personnel? How many times have the systems changed?

    Here is the answer: if there is a change of the FO and coaching staff again at the end of this year, it will be our fifth FO and coaching staff in eight years. When the first four front offices and coaching staffs took control, there was a significant reordering of the team personnel and a change in the both the offensive and defensive systems. (And actually, since Pettine had two different offensive coordinators, there have actually already been five different offensive systems in the past seven years and a new offensive system next year would be the sixth in eight years.)

    And we wonder why we can't win football games.
    Last edited by Brownsfan; 1 Week Ago at 05:59 PM.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz
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    LMAO, 0-9 fellas but keep making excuses to puff up this circus sideshow. Yep, gotta keep these clowns and their shitty players especially WR... Double wow but still zero wins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownsfan View Post
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    Here is the answer: if there is a change of the FO and coaching staff again at the end of this year, it will be our fifth FO and coaching staff in eight years. When the first four front offices and coaching staffs took control, there was a significant reordering of the team personnel and a change in the both the offensive and defensive systems. (And actually, since Pettine had two different offensive coordinators, there have actually already been five different offensive systems in the past seven years and a new offensive system next year would be the sixth in eight years.)

    And we wonder why we can't win football games.
    I was all about continuity...

    But the Browns don't win games because they make poor hires who pass up slam dunk draft picks and either trade back or take some fuckhead like Johnny Manziel. They also miss out on the coaches they should be hiring. One example; They could have probably landed Bruce Arians but they couldn't wait and signed Pettine instead. Arians came out and actually said he wanted to coach here and was hoping Cleveland would wait before Arizona inked him.

    Keeping people for the sake of keeping people is a terrible strategy to building an organization.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"
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    There's never a right answer unless we can go all cat-in-the-box and see what would happen in both realities... but I lean toward continuity even though I don't think Hue's been very good. Coaches get better too. He hasn't had a lot of years as a head coach. Is this his fourth?

    I say that mostly for the Kizer scenario, which is kind of convenient because if Kizer plays well and the Browns win a few games then finally accumulating some experience for these great young athletes in the same systems is the obvious choice.

    If Kizer flames out and we go 1-15 or 0-16? Then we'll be drafting or signing a new QB so it doesn't matter if we're changing the system on that side of the ball. Perhaps the new coach would be fine with keeping Williams. It's happened.

    But if it's Kizer? Don't wanna go through teaching him a new offense. Reminds me Couch, Smith, and those other guys who had to learn a new offense each of their first five years. It's running in place.

    I really would like to give it a try. Same offense, same OC, same QB for two years in a row. Just see if it gets traction. But we agree that it has to be earned down the stretch. I'm sure the Browns feel the same way.
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    Fucking aye, let's roll with the dumbfucks who can't win a single goddamn game and keep all their shitty, zero talent draft picks in their nonexistent "system."
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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    I was all about continuity...

    But the Browns don't win games because they make poor hires who pass up slam dunk draft picks and either trade back or take some fuckhead like Johnny Manziel. They also miss out on the coaches they should be hiring. One example; They could have probably landed Bruce Arians but they couldn't wait and signed Pettine instead. Arians came out and actually said he wanted to coach here and was hoping Cleveland would wait before Arizona inked him.

    Keeping people for the sake of keeping people is a terrible strategy to building an organization.
    I believe I misspoke myself in the portion of my last post you quoted. I have gone back and forth on specifically how many front offices, coaching staffs, offensive systems and defensive systems and how many we will have had under Haslam if the he blows it up again at the end of the season.

    So I have detailed it by year to keep it straight in my mind:

    Year 1 (2012): Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur (Childress, Jauron)
    Year 2 (2013): Banner/Lombardi/Chudzinski (Turner, Horton)
    Year 3 (2014): Farmer/Pettine (Shanahan, O'Neil)
    Year 4 (2015): Farmer/Pettine (DeFilippo, O'Neil)
    Year 5 (2016): Brown/Jackson (Jackson, Horton)
    Year 6 (2017): Brown/Jackson (Jackson, Williams)
    Year 7 (2018): New/New (New, New)

    By my count, if the current front office and coaching staff were to be replaced at the end of this season, in seven years under Jimmy Haslam, we will have had, five different front offices, five different head coaches, 6 different offensive systems and 6 different defensive systems.

    To me this is a record of abject failure. But it is a failure of ownership and not necessarily a failure the individual front offices and coaching staffs. Nobody could be expected to win under those circumstances. Despite my belief that the current front office has been overly aggressive in the churning of personnel, it appears to me that they have brought in some very talented youngsters. And despite apparent conflicts between the front office and coaching staff, the coaching staff appears to have done a commendable job in developing the players that the front office has given them to develop.

    I would like to see what the current regime (front office and coaching staff) will be able to do with a third year in charge. In my view, winning will take care of a lot of concerns and while it hasn't happened yet, it appears to me that the team is getting closer to being capable of competing successful. It therefore seems to me that giving them a minimum of three years to show significant progress is not excessive.

    I hope that Jimmy and Dee give them another year after this one. And if they can't get it done after another year, I will join the ouster chorus.
    "A pessimist is one who says: 'Things can't get worse.' And an optimist is one who says, 'Yes they can.'" Alan Dershowitz
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    Quote Originally Posted by VikingDawg View Post
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    Fucking aye, let's roll with the dumbfucks who can't win a single goddamn game and keep all their shitty, zero talent draft picks in their nonexistent "system."
    I don't agree with the language, (lol) but I agree in the logic.
    If you're 1-24 as a HC, uhh you may need to be fired.
    If none of your draft picks are making a substantial impact, uhh your FO may need to be fired. Seriously, I hate to start over again, but the bottom line in professional sports is W's and L's. It's an easy evaluation.
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    ^^^^^^^ this
    God Bless America

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    "Do you have to be a prick every day of your life"

    "there's no lessen to learn the 2nd time a calf kicks you in the balz"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownsfan View Post
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    I believe I misspoke myself in the portion of my last post you quoted. I have gone back and forth on specifically how many front offices, coaching staffs, offensive systems and defensive systems and how many we will have had under Haslam if the he blows it up again at the end of the season.

    So I have detailed it by year to keep it straight in my mind:

    Year 1 (2012): Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur (Childress, Jauron)
    Year 2 (2013): Banner/Lombardi/Chudzinski (Turner, Horton)
    Year 3 (2014): Farmer/Pettine (Shanahan, O'Neil)
    Year 4 (2015): Farmer/Pettine (DeFilippo, O'Neil)
    Year 5 (2016): Brown/Jackson (Jackson, Horton)
    Year 6 (2017): Brown/Jackson (Jackson, Williams)
    Year 7 (2018): New/New (New, New)

    By my count, if the current front office and coaching staff were to be replaced at the end of this season, in seven years under Jimmy Haslam, we will have had, five different front offices, five different head coaches, 6 different offensive systems and 6 different defensive systems.

    To me this is a record of abject failure. But it is a failure of ownership and not necessarily a failure the individual front offices and coaching staffs. Nobody could be expected to win under those circumstances. Despite my belief that the current front office has been overly aggressive in the churning of personnel, it appears to me that they have brought in some very talented youngsters. And despite apparent conflicts between the front office and coaching staff, the coaching staff appears to have done a commendable job in developing the players that the front office has given them to develop.

    I would like to see what the current regime (front office and coaching staff) will be able to do with a third year in charge. In my view, winning will take care of a lot of concerns and while it hasn't happened yet, it appears to me that the team is getting closer to being capable of competing successful. It therefore seems to me that giving them a minimum of three years to show significant progress is not excessive.

    I hope that Jimmy and Dee give them another year after this one. And if they can't get it done after another year, I will join the ouster chorus.
    But keeping these mother fuckers is a dead end.. Why wait to know what we already know.. They BLOW!!!.. So lets keep a sinking ship that just keeps getting patched over with shit drywall mix... What your proposing is assured death of football in cleveland.
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
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    Its Offense baby!!!!!" "ITS
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    They all gotta go, it's been " legal crime" around here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by damajuki View Post
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    I agree with you that *could* work but I'm now much closer to TBPP in feeling that Hue's immense ego is truly what's holding this team back. I mean, it really takes some effort to lose this much, this long, this badly, repeatedly. Something is wrong on the field and the HC has to take the brunt of the blame.

    I'm a big chess player (look me up on Chess Time Pro app any players out there!) and Hue strikes me as the kind of chess player who is constantly bringing his queen out early, looking for the big strike, hoping his opponent can't counter the distance attacks.

    The problem with this strategy in chess, and in football, is that it takes INCREDIBLE precision to pull it off and a LOT of luck/hope that your opponent/the other team can't counter the long strike.

    And when they DO counter it, it usually leaves you exposed and/or behind in developing your less-aggressive, less-potent pieces/players. Conversely, those who do blunt this approach often do so with relatively simple tactics, covering space with pawns and knights, bringing out bishops and rooks slowly and reserving the queen for the end game (fourth quarter).

    So, to me, watching/studying this season more than I have most seasons, it's very familiar to me why we are losing repeatedly: Hue doesn't know how to develop his pieces to set the board up for the end game. He attacks early and often and when that fails, which is predictable if you know chess/football, it's nearly impossible to recover without a LOT of help.

    Which, to be fair, the Browns aren't getting much of. But if you KNOW your pieces/players are weak at the long game (passing attack), then perhaps a slug it out, pawns first (running attack) strategy might get your queen (QB) into a better position to finish the game standing upright and still attacking.

    This is my extended way of saying: Hue is most likely bad at chess given his impotent football strategy.
    Brilliant post, i've often likened nfl to chess when trying to entice my more analytical friends to get into the sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickers View Post
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    But keeping these mother fuckers is a dead end.. Why wait to know what we already know.. They BLOW!!!.. So lets keep a sinking ship that just keeps getting patched over with shit drywall mix... What your proposing is assured death of football in cleveland.
    Funny thing is this type of statement is so easy to make...because odds are it WILL get blown up...which in the mind of those writing these statements PROVES it wouldn't have worked out...when in reality all it proves is that this owner didn't have the balls to ignore the media and doomsayers and stick to the 5 year plan this team was supposedly commited to.

    This team has talent. It just isn't EXPERIENCED talent. I have said before that the Browns are almost all 3yrs or less in the league. They have 4 in their 4th year, 3 in the 5th, 2 in the 6th, and 4 with more than that, for a total of 13 players with 4 or more years experience. 14 of their starters (or heavy rotational guys) are either rookies or in their 2nd year.

    Contrast that with Pittsburgh. They have only 13 TOTAL players in their rookie or 2nd year, 3 that make significant playing time. They also have 26 players with 4 or more years experience...and they make up the core of the team. Those players have also been in the same system for that entire time (except a couple FAs).

    That EXPERIENCE, both on the field and in the same system, makes a HUGE difference in the number of mistakes on the field...but also in the speed to react, and the trust of their teammates to do their assignments. It easily can explain the breakdowns that seem to cost the Browns wins on a weekly basis.

    Saying everyone sucks is easy. Pointing out individual issues for each player is much harder.

    Hue...he has more than enough on him to say he is not doing the job IMHO. But the players and this FO may be a better HC and time away from being something special.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Funny thing is this type of statement is so easy to make...because odds are it WILL get blown up...which in the mind of those writing these statements PROVES it wouldn't have worked out...when in reality all it proves is that this owner didn't have the balls to ignore the media and doomsayers and stick to the 5 year plan this team was supposedly commited to.

    This team has talent. It just isn't EXPERIENCED talent. I have said before that the Browns are almost all 3yrs or less in the league. They have 4 in their 4th year, 3 in the 5th, 2 in the 6th, and 4 with more than that, for a total of 13 players with 4 or more years experience. 14 of their starters (or heavy rotational guys) are either rookies or in their 2nd year.

    Contrast that with Pittsburgh. They have only 13 TOTAL players in their rookie or 2nd year, 3 that make significant playing time. They also have 26 players with 4 or more years experience...and they make up the core of the team. Those players have also been in the same system for that entire time (except a couple FAs).

    That EXPERIENCE, both on the field and in the same system, makes a HUGE difference in the number of mistakes on the field...but also in the speed to react, and the trust of their teammates to do their assignments. It easily can explain the breakdowns that seem to cost the Browns wins on a weekly basis.

    Saying everyone sucks is easy. Pointing out individual issues for each player is much harder.

    Hue...he has more than enough on him to say he is not doing the job IMHO. But the players and this FO may be a better HC and time away from being something special.
    .. DF.. in the end .. W's matter.. you can spin and dissect all you want.. The bottom line is WINNING!.. No one cares about analytics, metrics, body fat and any catch phrase you can muster.. To me.. It just sounds like excuses.. You can only excuse failure for so long.. These tools arent getting it done.. And wont get it done.. How many times do you need to be cracked over the head by a 2x4 to realize.. it ain't working.. And won't work with these bozos..

    Fans and team investors want results.. not excuses... All you are offering is excuses...
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



    Its Offense baby!!!!!" "ITS
    OFFENSE!!!!!
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    Nickers...I get it. But you are saying IT ALL BLOWS. But you can't know that. My point is I truly believe Hue is the epicenter of the problem. I hate it, because I really thought he was the right HC for us.

    Look at the players. They were ALL on other teams boards at or around the time they were taken. Draftknicks LOVE the Browns drafts (except on the QB/WR issue). The players ALL have talent. But they are not seeming to improve. THAT is coaching.

    The jerking around of Kizer...unexplainable. Yet somehow this kid has the right to call a naked QB sneak with 15 seconds left in the half? How? Hue pulls him multiple times, but trusts him enough to call that???

    Britt? What the hell is he still on the field for. The FO is responsible for his contract...but they have NOTHING to do with Hue continuing to play him.

    Whining about everything having to be perfect? What the hell?!? He is basically calling out the FO in public...that is a power play...and I hate that shit. He should be saying what is proveable...the youth that I mentioned. The fact they have not been able to address the O as much in the draft yet. Point out the little mistakes that cost the team big plays. Don't do a public power play.

    If Hue really is the problem...then all these players may just make a HUGE jump in production under new guidance...then the EVERYTHING SUCKS is proven wrong. And the blind hatred of analytics to me is humorous. The team that uses analytics more than any other in the NFL is also the team that is the most successful...the Pats.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.


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    This kind of backs up that thought...

    https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2017/1...rom-the-browns

    This is the same kind of pipeline the Falcons used to have with the Jaguars under Mike Smith, and it certainly made sense that Atlanta would dip into the Cleveland well given that Kyle Shanahan spent time there. The fact they’re continuing to do so post-Shanny suggests that Cleveland, for all its obvious failings, still is finding and fielding enough talent for Atlanta to want to vulture.
    So, a winning franchise thinks our players are talented enough to grab.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    We draft from the same pool as everybody else and draft guys who would've gone to someone else soon after our slot if we'd passed... in almost every case. In some cases teams were trying to trade in front of us (including for Manziel, BTW).

    I do think "starting over... and over" has been one of the Browns biggest issues. Win now or move on, which would encourage signing old "right now" veterans like Phil Savage. That crater took a while to dig out of.

    Haslam was down with the tear down, kind of an organizational enema. He all but said this year would be rough and he didn't expect much until 2018 and even 2019. Basketball fans are more accustomed to this but it was really broken and needed serious commitment. I think it's the wrong time to gut the operation.

    That said... a lot of people think that's where we're headed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    We draft from the same pool as everybody else and draft guys who would've gone to someone else soon after our slot if we'd passed... in almost every case. In some cases teams were trying to trade in front of us (including for Manziel, BTW).

    I do think "starting over... and over" has been one of the Browns biggest issues. Win now or move on, which would encourage signing old "right now" veterans like Phil Savage. That crater took a while to dig out of.

    Haslam was down with the tear down, kind of an organizational enema. He all but said this year would be rough and he didn't expect much until 2018 and even 2019. Basketball fans are more accustomed to this but it was really broken and needed serious commitment. I think it's the wrong time to gut the operation.

    That said... a lot of people think that's where we're headed.
    This is not fucking baseball shep.. its football.. and its all utter,total bullshit...
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Nickers...I get it. But you are saying IT ALL BLOWS. But you can't know that. My point is I truly believe Hue is the epicenter of the problem. I hate it, because I really thought he was the right HC for us.

    Look at the players. They were ALL on other teams boards at or around the time they were taken. Draftknicks LOVE the Browns drafts (except on the QB/WR issue). The players ALL have talent. But they are not seeming to improve. THAT is coaching.

    The jerking around of Kizer...unexplainable. Yet somehow this kid has the right to call a naked QB sneak with 15 seconds left in the half? How? Hue pulls him multiple times, but trusts him enough to call that???

    Britt? What the hell is he still on the field for. The FO is responsible for his contract...but they have NOTHING to do with Hue continuing to play him.

    Whining about everything having to be perfect? What the hell?!? He is basically calling out the FO in public...that is a power play...and I hate that shit. He should be saying what is proveable...the youth that I mentioned. The fact they have not been able to address the O as much in the draft yet. Point out the little mistakes that cost the team big plays. Don't do a public power play.

    If Hue really is the problem...then all these players may just make a HUGE jump in production under new guidance...then the EVERYTHING SUCKS is proven wrong. And the blind hatred of analytics to me is humorous. The team that uses analytics more than any other in the NFL is also the team that is the most successful...the Pats.
    So go ahead then and follow these blind sheep to abyss.. remember who told you next year.. when it doesnt get any better... Maybe you can accept this , but I can't.. guys like 56 and me don't have time for rebuilds...
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



    Its Offense baby!!!!!" "ITS
    OFFENSE!!!!!

  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    If Hue really is the problem...then all these players may just make a HUGE jump in production under new guidance...then the EVERYTHING SUCKS is proven wrong. And the blind hatred of analytics to me is humorous. The team that uses analytics more than any other in the NFL is also the team that is the most successful...the Pats.
    I think I've been pretty consistent this season that I expected far more wins than most and that I set the bottom line at 2 wins before the bye before I'd really get negative about anything.

    Welp, not only did we totally fail at the two wins thing, the team has had a ridiculous run of making the worst types of plays to decrease the odds of winning any given game.

    Injuries have hurt, inconsistency has hurt, bad luck has hurt but in the end, this time literally has no identity, not one thing that it does well enough to win games, and not one thing that you can point at and say "THAT is Cleveland Browns football".

    And that utter lack of ANY identity, let alone a winning identity, is 100% on the head coach and it manifests itself most frequently in the red zone on offense, where we have lost so many winnable games by simply not scoring points when, statistically, we should have.

    It's easy to blame Kizer for playing poorly in the red zone but THE FUCKING HEAD COACH PUT THE INEXPERIENCED ROOKIE QB IN THE GAME AND THEN ***REPEATEDLY*** CALLED PLAYS THAT PUT THE ROOKIE QB INTO HIGH RISK SITUATIONS AT WHICH HE FAILED. (I'm screaming in my head, sorry.)

    Which goes back to: this head coach doesn't know how to develop his players/strategy to compliment his rookie QB. Instead, he tried to force his rookie QB to play NFL football at a level that he simply can't manage.

    Teams don't go 1-31 (plus/minus two wins) by accident. Shit, most teams WIN a game or two by accident. What's happening here is unprecedentedly bad and it's NOT an accident.

    It's coaching.

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by damajuki View Post
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    Teams don't go 1-31 (plus/minus two wins) by accident. Shit, most teams WIN a game or two by accident. What's happening here is unprecedentedly bad and it's NOT an accident.

    It's coaching.
    I'm repeating myself, but damajuki is absolutely right. There is no sign of the Browns improving in any area, a bad team can accidentally win a couple of games. This is pro sports, you win or you get fired!
    Like Stray Dawg, damajuki, VikingDawg liked this post.

  24. #264
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    Remember when we fired Rob Chudzinski after he sent a record number of players to the pro-bowl in a losing season and after winning more games in that time than Hue has in 2 years.

    Look at the logic here

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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