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Thread: 2013 Cleveland Indians

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    Default 2013 Cleveland Indians

    The Indians have a real chance at the playoffs in 2013.

    That's not a guarantee that the team will make the playoffs, nor is it a personal endorsement that they certainly will, but it shouldn't be in the least a controversial statement. If they play as well in the second half as they have in the first half, they will be in the race and have a much better record. Why? Because they have played the hardest part of their schedule, and their second half schedule is correspondingly child's play for a serious contending team. Only 19 of their last 67 games (that is, all games they have yet to play) are against teams with winning records, and not one of their last 23 games is against a team at or above .500.

    Reynolds and Giambi could not possibly be hitting worse, Swisher isn't giving us the performance we've paid for, Asdrubal's having a down year - and yet, despite all of this, we're only a game and a half behind Detroit, a team with the talent to win the World Series, on the back of an offense that, despite all of this, is still 5th in the Majors. Once the team gets gets McAllister back, we have a rotation of Masterson, McAllister, Kluber, all of whom have pitched extremely well, combined with a Kazmir who has pitched *very* well when Yan Gomes is calling the pitches, and Ubaldo, who is nothing if not puzzling. We have a solid #1-4.

    It's not in the least unreasonable to assert that this team can contend. There's nothing about their performance thus far that suggests it's a fluke. Reynolds' production earlier in the year was fluky. If we had gotten here on the back of, say, Ryan Raburn hitting .350, I would be the first to acknowledge that such performance could not possibly hold up. But this has been a full-team effort, and when one part of the team is down, the remainder can pick it up - in this series against the Royals, the bats were below average, and yet the Indians got the sweep. Whether or not they make the playoffs, this team has a very good chance to, at the very least, be in the race come September.

    This fact makes the Indians attendance all the more jarring. The cry has always been that, if the Indians win, the fans will show up. Here we are, in the thick of a race, and our attendance is the 4th worst in the league, beating out only Miami, Houston, and the Chicago White Sox - the best of which (CWS) is 18 Games under .500. We're 7 games over .500, 1.5 games back of one of the most talented teams in baseball, and the attendance isn't there.

    Likewise, the age-old cries of 'Cheapskate Dolan' ring pathetically hollow. In signing Michael Bourn and Nick Swisher for combined contracts of over $100 Million over four years, as well as bringing in a World Series-winning manager in Terry Francona, the front office has made a serious declaration of intent that this team will put everything it has into winning.

    It's not unreasonable to be excited by this team. A 5-4 record by the Browns, a comparable winning percentage at a similar point in the season, would yield instantaneous cries of Super Bowl. Why, then, do so few believe in the 2013 Cleveland Indians?

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    I can only speak from the perspective of a Blue Jays fan:

    When you observe a team playing at a certain level for so long, apathy and frustration can override. The Jays are way back of a playoff spot, but that 11-game win streak they had really made me perk my ears up so to speak and I've been keeping an eye on the Jays since.

    I would love to see the Indians make the playoffs, I think it was Grantland though I could be wrong, who wrote an article about how the Indians were enjoying a great season, except nobody was watching their games. If I can find it I'll link it here.

    Do you think it's that apathy/frustration driving the poor attendance?

    As an aside: If you were expecting to get your money's worth out of Nick Swisher you shouldn't have gotten your hopes up .
    BROWNS 2017: FUCK IT, DUDE... LET'S GO BOWLING

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    I can only speak from the perspective of a Blue Jays fan:

    When you observe a team playing at a certain level for so long, apathy and frustration can override. The Jays are way back of a playoff spot, but that 11-game win streak they had really made me perk my ears up so to speak and I've been keeping an eye on the Jays since.

    I would love to see the Indians make the playoffs, I think it was Grantland though I could be wrong, who wrote an article about how the Indians were enjoying a great season, except nobody was watching their games. If I can find it I'll link it here.

    Do you think it's that apathy/frustration driving the poor attendance?
    In large part. I think it's more the fact that fans irrationally hold the Indians to a higher standard than any other team in Cleveland. As I said, if the Browns were doing comparably with the Indians, there would be celebrations in the street and the boards would be shouting 'Super Bowl.' Hell, if the Cavs were .500, there would be praise for this up-and-coming young team led by All-Star Kyrie Irving. Indians? 'If they keep winning, fans will show up.' Bullshit.

    It's particularly weird because the NFL and NBA have an ostensibly even playing field. MLB? Not even close. Whereas the NFL and NBA have profit-sharing, a (soft but still extant) salary cap, and salary floor, MLB has none of that. The Profit-Sharing has become increasingly robust, but each team has their own TV contracts, with the revenue (roughly) proportional with the size of their market - if the Indians sold out like they did in the 90s, their revenue still could not even approach the size of even the Red Sox. TV contracts are a much larger part of payroll now than they were even in the 90s. The concept of 'level playing field' doesn't exist in baseball. So the fact that people hold Indians to a higher standard is probably the most poorly-reasoned fan reactions I can conceive.

    As to why, it's because the team was good in the 90s. The Jacobs Family bought the Indians when they had no expectations at all. In contrast, the Dolan Family bought the team when expectations could not have been higher, and given that it was the tail-end of the best run that the Indians had seen in an EXTREMELY long time, they couldn't have possibly lived up to expectations. It's as if many fans believe that the Jacobs would have signed Thome or Ramirez. We were never going to keep them, but many refuse to acknowledge that it's our market, rather than 'Cheapskate Dolan,' why our payroll is low - to say nothing of the comical cries of 'cheapskate' from those who never attend games. Cause and effect, yo.

    As an aside: If you were expecting to get your money's worth out of Nick Swisher you shouldn't have gotten your hopes up .
    Well, not every front office has a chance to get Mark Buehrle/Josh Johnson value :3

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    "It's particularly weird because the NFL and NBA have an ostensibly even playing field. MLB? Not even close. Whereas the NFL and NBA have profit-sharing, a (soft but still extant) salary cap, and salary floor, MLB has none of that. The Profit-Sharing has become increasingly robust, but each team has their own TV contracts, with the revenue (roughly) proportional with the size of their market - if the Indians sold out like they did in the 90s, their revenue still could not even approach the size of even the Red Sox. TV contracts are a much larger part of payroll now than they were even in the 90s. The concept of 'level playing field' doesn't exist in baseball. So the fact that people hold Indians to a higher standard is probably the most poorly-reasoned fan reactions I can conceive."

    I think this is actually why they have unfair expectations - I follow the Indians less because I am reluctant to believe they have a real chance at being relevant again. At 162 games that last several hours, being a real fan of them is a huge commitment time-wise. If they have no shot and are just sort of there, it kills what interest you have in following them if you're not particularly fond of baseball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
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    "It's particularly weird because the NFL and NBA have an ostensibly even playing field. MLB? Not even close. Whereas the NFL and NBA have profit-sharing, a (soft but still extant) salary cap, and salary floor, MLB has none of that. The Profit-Sharing has become increasingly robust, but each team has their own TV contracts, with the revenue (roughly) proportional with the size of their market - if the Indians sold out like they did in the 90s, their revenue still could not even approach the size of even the Red Sox. TV contracts are a much larger part of payroll now than they were even in the 90s. The concept of 'level playing field' doesn't exist in baseball. So the fact that people hold Indians to a higher standard is probably the most poorly-reasoned fan reactions I can conceive."

    I think this is actually why they have unfair expectations - I follow the Indians less because I am reluctant to believe they have a real chance at being relevant again. At 162 games that last several hours, being a real fan of them is a huge commitment time-wise. If they have no shot and are just sort of there, it kills what interest you have in following them if you're not particularly fond of baseball.
    You bring up two separate points.

    1) Fans realize that the Indians can't be relevant again because of inherent imbalances in MLB profit-sharing.

    1a) Holy fuck, I have difficulty reading my own writing.

    2) If you're not a baseball fan, you're not going to follow non-contending teams.

    Point 1 is idealistic. Perhaps Crow realizes it - perhaps a fair number of fans realize it, but you're really giving people way too much credit. I can't imagine there's a huge base of people that have at one point said to themselves, 'because of the inherent imbalances in the profit-sharing systems of MLB compared to the NBA or NFL, I don't think I'll watch that sport.' That's not to say that there aren't people who do realize it, but that demographic isn't so large as to significantly impact attendance. Rather, the more simple claim of 'you know we should really trade for that one Giancarlo Stanton guy and lock him up for an 8-year-deal - but Dolan's made his mind up that he won't spend money' is the prevailing opinion on why our payroll is small relative to the league. Ignoring the fact that the team might be around $90M payroll next year.

    Point 1a makes me really uncomfortable with my writing style.

    Point 2 is a very reasonable justification as to why nobody should watch the 2011 Indians. It's not relevant when the team's contending - i.e.: now. Attendance for the Detroit series wasn't terrible. Certainly better than the actual series has gone thus far. Yet despite losing yet another series to the Tigers and playing themselves out of the AL Central race, however, they're still only two out of the Wild Card spot with an easier schedule than any other contender.

    Also, I assume that 'there' means 'playing with no hope of contention.' ( ͝ ͜ʖ͡)

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    1/2 game out and we have the Astro's for four days, Chicago for two and close out with four games against Minnesota

    lol, We better get a wild card spot.

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    I've thought about this for months

    And my answer is

    Fuck I think you're right shit

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    I'm always rooting for the Indians, still 1 game on Texas.
    BROWNS 2017: FUCK IT, DUDE... LET'S GO BOWLING

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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    I feel bad for not going to a game this year...

    I sort of stopped following the Indians in 2001... Once Manny Ramierez left... I sort of knew that it was all down hill from there and that the team would never be the same again. The reason why the teams of the 90s were so easy to get into was because the players were all here for so long, and grew with the team, they were well established. Every position had a definite starter, we had a definite rotation we had players that we knew almost.. it had personality. We also had fun characters and ROLE players. We had a lot of players that came from our own farm system the GREW into superstars... not just ones we got in Free Agency or traded for. To me... how you win is just as important as winning itself...

    Im going to try and get playoffs tickets and support them... its just hard to get in to.... then theres the emotional investment

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I feel bad for not going to a game this year...

    I sort of stopped following the Indians in 2001... Once Manny Ramierez left... I sort of knew that it was all down hill from there and that the team would never be the same again. The reason why the teams of the 90s were so easy to get into was because the players were all here for so long, and grew with the team, they were well established. Every position had a definite starter, we had a definite rotation we had players that we knew almost.. it had personality. We also had fun characters and ROLE players. We had a lot of players that came from our own farm system the GREW into superstars... not just ones we got in Free Agency or traded for. To me... how you win is just as important as winning itself...
    I kind of feel a little sorry for this Indians team. The attendance has lacked for pretty much the entire season. A lot of it was fear of the let down (that 4 game sweep the Tigers had in Cleveland didnt help,) and majority of the fan base is still upset and bitter towards the Dolans and refuse to support the team as long as they own them. Truth is the Dolans spent money this off-season that actually paid off instead of paying Hafner and Sizemore to be hurt all year. The 90's teams spoiled this fan base... That team had one of the greatest hitting lineups OF ALL TIME. If you wait for another lineup to be assembled like that by any team you could be waiting a lifetime. As of right now the Tribe control their own destiny... and could host the wild card game I hope its a sell out and that place goes crazy like it did almost 20 yrs ago

    You can learn a line from a win, and a book from a defeat.~Paul Brown

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
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    I've thought about this for months

    And my answer is

    Fuck I think you're right shit
    Love it when my jeremiads proves true. Or rather, the opposite of a jeremiad. Perhaps it should be modeled on King Josiah, who imprisoned Jeremiah.

    A josiad, then.

    Point is, PLAYOFFS WOO. And Salazar is starting the Wild Card Game IN CLEVELAND. You like 11.25 Strikeouts per Nine Innings? Because that's what he does, and is the highest Strikeout Rate for an Indians rookie since Bob Feller.

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    PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!

    lol, wish I had money to go to at least one game this year. No more Perez though, please!

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    Tonights the big night! The game was sold out like the day we clinched the 1st wildcard spot.... That stadium better be jumping and going crazy just like Pittsburgh was last night when they took on the Reds.

    You can learn a line from a win, and a book from a defeat.~Paul Brown

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    Way to go Tribe...you won ten straight to get there...then in typical fashion...you shit a big fat goose egg..Thanks for the fucking tease...
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickers View Post
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    Way to go Tribe...you won ten straight to get there...then in typical fashion...you shit a big fat goose egg..Thanks for the fucking tease...
    Really? I mean yeah I'm disappointed in how the season came to a close, but its hard to get mad at a team that many picked 3rd in the division at the start of the year had a 23 win increase from last year. Just remember this team lost 94 games last year.... we won 92 this season. Hopefully this front office makes some decent moves this off-season and the team improves even more next season.

    You can learn a line from a win, and a book from a defeat.~Paul Brown

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownieBornAndRaised View Post
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    Really? I mean yeah I'm disappointed in how the season came to a close, but its hard to get mad at a team that many picked 3rd in the division at the start of the year had a 23 win increase from last year. Just remember this team lost 94 games last year.... we won 92 this season. Hopefully this front office makes some decent moves this off-season and the team improves even more next season.

    I can understand them losing...but 0 runs is inexcusable..they all oughta be ashamed...and Im sure they are..I was not expecting a pennant..but damn..they made Alex Cobb look like Dave Stewart. And he was all over the goddamn plate.
    " There are no old running QB's in the NFL " ~ Sam Rutigliano. "
    I pray someone takes a stack of SPARQ stats, and shoves them up smug Sashi Browns tight asshole" ~TBPP



    Its Offense baby!!!!!" "ITS
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