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Dolphins position match up.

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Old 09-02-2013
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Default Dolphins position match up.

Ryan Tannefail vs Brandon Weeden.

This match up is going to be the most interesting and likely will define which team wins. Regardless of who we think is better or worse the fact is these guys are both first round picks who put up almost identical numbers last season. They both had very encouraging preseasons, and both have new tools at their disposal be it coaching or players.

I cannot pick one or the other because I think their supporting cast could very well be the difference. We aren't sure if Brandon is going to have reliable targets, but we aren't sure if Ryan's line can keep him on his feet long enough to impact the game. How those around either signal caller play is going to determine who puts their stamp on the game.

Trent Richardson vs Lamar Miller.


I honestly don't feel I need to say too much. Trent is coming off a strong rookie year despite all his injuries while Lamar Miller was hardly able to hold off Daniel Thomas for the starting job. Trent is going to turn heads this year. He's not only a fantastic rusher but his blocking and catching is just as good. Mr. Richardson wins this one comfortably, and I think the Browns first team run stopping has looked better than expected so far.

Browns o-line vs Miami front 7.

Without Cam Wake this would not even be close. Cam is one of the best pass rushers in the NFL and if Mitch Schwartz can handle him or not is a big question (Though going against Kruger all off season is a big help). Dion Jordan likely won't be healthy, and that's probably best for the Dolphins because Joe Thomas is the best in the business. Oliver Vernon will be left with Joe. Meanwhile, Starks and Soliai will be left split between Mack, Greco and Gilkey. Greco is above solid, and Alex Mack is a pro-bowler. Gilkey is the question, but I've like what I've seen so far - and his best game as a Brown has come against the firing 4-3 of the Lions.

As for Misi, Wheeler and Ellerbe I wouldn't be shocked to see them not blitzing as much, opting to make it difficult for Brandon in a more coverage based role. Phillip Wheeler made a strong impression in coverage last year (6 passes defended) but was part of the awful Raiders team. Their run stopping should be strong but I don't think they will put on a dominant pass rush.

Miami o-line vs Browns front 7.

Browns win. Miami's o-line is awful at best while between Kruger, Sheard, Jackson, Robertson, Taylor, Bryant and Rubin the Browns boast a combined 27.5 sacks from the 2012 season (That's 7.5 more than the Jags total team). If I heard correctly, Miami's current LT gave up more sacks and hurries than any other lineman in 2012 while playing at RT, and according to multiple Miami writers their o-line was laughable during training camp.

Browns receivers vs Miami secondary.


I was going to give this to Miami convincingly until I saw they've listed Dimitri Patterson as their #2 corner. This guy was so bad he couldn't earn time over Buster Skrine. The Browns won't be afraid to mix Greg Little, Davone Bess and Travis Benjamin to try and exploit him. I thought for sure Will Davis would get the nod over him. At safety, the Dolphins have Reshad Jones and Chris Clemons. Both are veteran 5th round picks still trying to find their feet entering their 4th and 5th seasons respectively. Jones had somewhat of a break out season last year so Brandon will have to be careful there. Meanwhile, Brent Grimes has impressed. I'll still give this to the Dolphins, simply because we don't know what we're going to get out of our guys, but they certainly don't come without their holes. If Jordan Cameron can repeat his antics from the Lions game, the Browns will be looking good.

Miami receivers vs Browns secondary.

It all comes down to Buster Skrine and Tashaun Gipson. The Dolphins aren't as great at receiver as their fan base seems to think. First, we should note Joe Haden has handled Mike Wallace at his best in Shitsburgh, and he's struggled to find his feet in Miami. Brian Hartline is coming off a 1,000 yard season but he only managed to turn that in to 1 touchdown. He was also inconsistent. 4 games of 8+ receptions but also had 6 games with 3 receptions or less. Shockingly, that game span he had only 11 receptions but 36 targets. When he's cold, he is awful. The Dolphins also look to be starting Charles Clay at TE who is a developing 6th round pick they've tried hard to hide away on the depth chart. The Dolphins have also signed Brandon Gibson from the Rams to be their new Davone Bess, but how much chemistry he has with Ryan in his new system is yet to be seen.

Overall, I don't see how it's so easy for people to write off the Browns secondary. Sure, we've got two guys with questions, but they aren't facing 7 clones of Megatron. I'll give the slight edge to Miami, but it's only slight because of the two aforementioned guys that are still developing.

Overall.

This is a game I think the Browns should win. I get it people think it will be close but truth be told I will be pissed if the Browns don't smack them one. In the first two preseason games the Browns lifted and showed they are tired of being pushed around. The same needs to be shown against the Dolphins who aren't world beaters by any stretch. If the Browns don't win by a touchdown or two, and convincingly control the game, I'll be disappointed. It's early and it's going to take time for our young team to really gel, but I think they ultimately want the same thing I do. Bring it on, and go Browns.

(Used Miami's current depth chart on their official website, so not sure how accurate.)

Thoughts? (TL-DR is not a thought! )
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Old 09-02-2013
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Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
Ryan Tannefail vs Brandon Weeden.

This match up is going to be the most interesting and likely will define which team wins. Regardless of who we think is better or worse the fact is these guys are both first round picks who put up almost identical numbers last season. They both had very encouraging preseasons, and both have new tools at their disposal be it coaching or players.

I cannot pick one or the other because I think their supporting cast could very well be the difference. We aren't sure if Brandon is going to have reliable targets, but we aren't sure if Ryan's line can keep him on his feet long enough to impact the game. How those around either signal caller play is going to determine who puts their stamp on the game.

Trent Richardson vs Lamar Miller.

I honestly don't feel I need to say too much. Trent is coming off a strong rookie year despite all his injuries while Lamar Miller was hardly able to hold off Daniel Thomas for the starting job. Trent is going to turn heads this year. He's not only a fantastic rusher but his blocking and catching is just as good. Mr. Richardson wins this one comfortably, and I think the Browns first team run stopping has looked better than expected so far.

Browns o-line vs Miami front 7.

Without Cam Wake this would not even be close. Cam is one of the best pass rushers in the NFL and if Mitch Schwartz can handle him or not is a big question (Though going against Kruger all off season is a big help). Dion Jordan likely won't be healthy, and that's probably best for the Dolphins because Joe Thomas is the best in the business. Oliver Vernon will be left with Joe. Meanwhile, Starks and Soliai will be left split between Mack, Greco and Gilkey. Greco is above solid, and Alex Mack is a pro-bowler. Gilkey is the question, but I've like what I've seen so far - and his best game as a Brown has come against the firing 4-3 of the Lions.

As for Misi, Wheeler and Ellerbe I wouldn't be shocked to see them not blitzing as much, opting to make it difficult for Brandon in a more coverage based role. Phillip Wheeler made a strong impression in coverage last year (6 passes defended) but was part of the awful Raiders team. Their run stopping should be strong but I don't think they will put on a dominant pass rush.

Miami o-line vs Browns front 7.

Browns win. Miami's o-line is awful at best while between Kruger, Sheard, Jackson, Robertson, Taylor, Bryant and Rubin the Browns boast a combined 27.5 sacks from the 2012 season (That's 7.5 more than the Jags total team). If I heard correctly, Miami's current LT gave up more sacks and hurries than any other lineman in 2012 while playing at RT, and according to multiple Miami writers their o-line was laughable during training camp.

Browns receivers vs Miami secondary.

I was going to give this to Miami convincingly until I saw they've listed Dimitri Patterson as their #2 corner. This guy was so bad he couldn't earn time over Buster Skrine. The Browns won't be afraid to mix Greg Little, Davone Bess and Travis Benjamin to try and exploit him. I thought for sure Will Davis would get the nod over him. At safety, the Dolphins have Reshad Jones and Chris Clemons. Both are veteran 5th round picks still trying to find their feet entering their 4th and 5th seasons respectively. Jones had somewhat of a break out season last year so Brandon will have to be careful there. Meanwhile, Brent Grimes has impressed. I'll still give this to the Dolphins, simply because we don't know what we're going to get out of our guys, but they certainly don't come without their holes. If Jordan Cameron can repeat his antics from the Lions game, the Browns will be looking good.

Miami receivers vs Browns secondary.

It all comes down to Buster Skrine and Tashaun Gipson. The Dolphins aren't as great at receiver as their fan base seems to think. First, we should note Joe Haden has handled Mike Wallace at his best in Shitsburgh, and he's struggled to find his feet in Miami. Brian Hartline is coming off a 1,000 yard season but he only managed to turn that in to 1 touchdown. He was also inconsistent. 4 games of 8+ receptions but also had 6 games with 3 receptions or less. Shockingly, that game span he had only 11 receptions but 36 targets. When he's cold, he is awful. The Dolphins also look to be starting Charles Clay at TE who is a developing 6th round pick they've tried hard to hide away on the depth chart. The Dolphins have also signed Brandon Gibson from the Rams to be their new Davone Bess, but how much chemistry he has with Ryan in his new system is yet to be seen.

Overall, I don't see how it's so easy for people to write off the Browns secondary. Sure, we've got two guys with questions, but they aren't facing 7 clones of Megatron. I'll give the slight edge to Miami, but it's only slight because of the two aforementioned guys that are still developing.

Overall.

This is a game I think the Browns should win. I get it people think it will be close but truth be told I will be pissed if the Browns don't smack them one. In the first two preseason games the Browns lifted and showed they are tired of being pushed around. The same needs to be shown against the Dolphins who aren't world beaters by any stretch. If the Browns don't win by a touchdown or two, and convincingly control the game, I'll be disappointed. It's early and it's going to take time for our young team to really gel, but I think they ultimately want the same thing I do. Bring it on, and go Browns.

(Used Miami's current depth chart on their official website, so not sure how accurate.)

Thoughts? (TL-DR is not a thought! )
Tannenhill could be a little more effective than Weeden in this game and he has some mobility which Weeden lacks. However, Tannenhill and the Miami offense have not looked all that sharp this pre-season, and this Miami offense is not Andew Luck and Colts. If Tannenhill gets more time than expected to throw, the Browns are in big trouble. Key is to get a lot of constant pressure on Tannehill who may make a couple of mistakes.

TRich better than Miller but Dolphins have a backup RB who is far superior to what the Browns have.

The defensive line as a whole is one of the key strengths of the whole Miami team, so I think your assessment is incorrect. They have guys who can rush besides Wake, who is a load. I expect the Dolphins D-line will be troublesome for Weeden.

The Miami O-line has a couple of capable players but you are correct, this has been a big problem this summer and Browns should get plenty of pressure. How well the Browns do in this area will determine the outcome of the game. This is the Dolphins primary weakness.

Re the secondary, I thought Patterson was terrible last year but he has been very adequate in game action I have seen in the past month. Hall of Famer Bob Griese, who is the color analyst for the Dolphins, said: "I'm very comfortable with the Dolphins secondary and Dimitri Patterson is a terrific addition." Overall, Dolphins have a decent secondary and will give the Browns a few problems, although not insurmountable.

You may be underestimating the Dolphins receiving corps and, in my judgment, Brandon Gibson, who replaced Bess, has been excellent in pre-season. I'll predict right now Gibson will hurt the Browns some. Dolphins took a heavy blow when TE Keller went down and that hurts them big-time. I honestly have no idea how well the Browns secondary will perform so I'm not sure how this part of the battle is going to turn out.

Overall: This will be a close game that either team can win. This is a key game for Cleveland because this is a team they can beat. There will not be many winnable games on the Browns schedule this year.

Last edited by AttackOffense; 09-02-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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Great write-up BDU, I'm going to add my thoughts as well:

QUARTERBACKS: I give the advantage to Tannehill simply because I think without Josh Gordon in the lineup, and counting all the injuries that the team has inferior offensive talent right now. Weeden will not have as bad a game as he had week one of last year but I'm not sure if he will be able to get comfortable and into a rhythm and the same goes to Tannehill because I think both teams have good pass-rush which will make headaches for the QB's all game long...

Advantage: Miami (BARELY...)

RUNNING BACK: The Dolphins have been trying to make something happen at running back since Daniel Thomas decided not to work out for them (but boy did he look great against us in that game last season) I give T-Rich the edge here simply because he's a more physically talented running back. IF he can keep himself from stutter stepping all game long I think he will have the stronger game and the stronger season overall. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Miami's running backs looked better against us than they should, again.

Advantage: Cleveland

OFFENSIVE LINE: Miami got RID of one of the best LT in football because he might be developing injury prone-ness. We've got JT. Both teams are dealing with a bit of a bandaid job right now ours is more due to injuries than Miami's spending a ton of money. I think even with the injuries to our offensive line we stand comparably to Miami, if we were healthy I would give us the edge.

Advantage: Even.

DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN: I agree with BDU that if the Dolphins do not have Cam Wake (a former CFL'er btw ) or Dion Jordan then the Browns have the advantage here (as we're only likely to miss Sheard, maybe?) and should pose the greater threat. I wouldn't doubt Miami's ability to get at the QB in spite of our O-Line health but overall I expect our defense to generate a more consistent pass rush than Miami. I think Miami has a pretty good D though and even if they're missing Cameron Wake we will not have it very easy.

Advantage: Cleveland

DEFENSIVE SECONDARY: Dimitri Patterson is listed as their #2 CB over Grimes? Colour me confused... I think depth wise, Miami has more even out talent in their secondary where we are fielding more un-proven talent. I think Haden is a better corner than Smith and we've got better CB's than Dimitri Patterson... Safety... I call it even as well.

Advantage: Even.

Overall: Agreed with BDU, this is a game the Browns should win. I want to see that the team is ready to set the tone early and keep it for the whole game, that is a sign to me the team came to play prepared. The play of our o-line and the play of our secondary will IMO, dictate victory. I have no doubts our pass rush will generate problems for Miami and I don't doubt that T-Rich will come to play. How well will the wide out's play? I've seen enough mental gaffes in the pre-season to think that our pass attack will have it's ups and downs as everyone works to get on the same page with the new offense. I predicted the Browns will lose a frustrating game and I still stand by that prediction. I think on paper we have the advantage but we will find a way to lose this one. Maybe that's my cynicism creeping back early.
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Tannenhill could be a little more effective than Weeden in this game and he has some mobility which Weeden lacks. However, Tannenhill and the Miami offense have not looked all that sharp this pre-season, and this Miami offense is not Andew Luck and Colts. If Tannenhill gets more time than expected to throw, the Browns are in big trouble. Key is to get a lot of constant pressure on Tannehill who may make a couple of mistakes.

TRich better than Miller but Dolphins have a backup RB who is far superior to what the Browns have.

The defensive line as a whole is one of the key strengths of the whole Miami team, so I think your assessment is incorrect. They have guys who can rush besides Wake, who is a load. I expect the Dolphins D-line will be troublesome for Weeden.

The Miami O-line has a couple of capable players but you are correct, this has been a big problem this summer and Browns should get plenty of pressure. How well the Browns do in this area will determine the outcome of the game. This is the Dolphins primary weakness.

Re the secondary, I thought Patterson was terrible last year but he has been very adequate in game action I have seen in the past month. Hall of Famer Bob Griese, who is the color analyst for the Dolphins, said: "I'm very comfortable with the Dolphins secondary and Dimitri Patterson is a terrific addition." Overall, Dolphins have a decent secondary and will give the Browns a few problems, although not insurmountable.

You may be underestimating the Dolphins receiving corps and, in my judgment, Brandon Gibson, who replaced Bess, has been excellent in pre-season. I'll predict right now Gibson will hurt the Browns some. Dolphins took a heavy blow when TE Keller went down and that hurts them big-time. I honestly have no idea how well the Browns secondary will perform so I'm not sure how this part of the battle is going to turn out.

Overall: This will be a close game that either team can win. This is a key game for Cleveland because this is a team they can beat. There will not be many winnable games on the Browns schedule this year.
Who are the guys who rush besides Wake? Soliai is coming in to his 8th year and has only 3.5 sacks to his name. Randy Starks is coming in to his 10th year and has a much more impressive 32.5 sacks but is on the downhill. He's not been the same monster for a while. He's also questionable for the opener with a knee injury, so even if he does play, he's probably not 100%. There is Oliver Vernon on the other side but he's far from a proven pass rusher, as evidenced by the Dolphins replacing him with Jordan. I just don't see any other monsters on their line apart from Cam Wake. I've certainly not seen any dominance from them in recent years. It's a team strength, but how strong is a whole new question.

I don't think I've underestimated their receivers, either. If Brandon Gibson is the best they have then it speaks volumes. He's had one good year, two very average years and one solid year. The Rams moved on from him because they felt he wasn't an answer for Sam Bradford. In the 2012 season he was very bland. Two good games but the rest a lot of 2/3 catches for 30/40 yards type deal. It's consistent but it falls well short of a guy being a game changer. He did score 5 touchdowns but 2 of them came from the Jets awful goal line. He only had 4 touchdowns in the previous 3 seasons (Admittedly, he missed time with injury in all those seasons) so it's hard to see him, like Hartline, as a points monster.

I just don't see either of those grouping being so great.
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Who are the guys who rush besides Wake? Soliai is coming in to his 8th year and has only 3.5 sacks to his name. Randy Starks is coming in to his 10th year and has a much more impressive 32.5 sacks but is on the downhill. He's not been the same monster for a while. He's also questionable for the opener with a knee injury, so even if he does play, he's probably not 100%. There is Oliver Vernon on the other side but he's far from a proven pass rusher, as evidenced by the Dolphins replacing him with Jordan. I just don't see any other monsters on their line apart from Cam Wake. I've certainly not seen any dominance from them in recent years. It's a team strength, but how strong is a whole new question.

I don't think I've underestimated their receivers, either. If Brandon Gibson is the best they have then it speaks volumes. He's had one good year, two very average years and one solid year. The Rams moved on from him because they felt he wasn't an answer for Sam Bradford. In the 2012 season he was very bland. Two good games but the rest a lot of 2/3 catches for 30/40 yards type deal. It's consistent but it falls well short of a guy being a game changer. He did score 5 touchdowns but 2 of them came from the Jets awful goal line. He only had 4 touchdowns in the previous 3 seasons (Admittedly, he missed time with injury in all those seasons) so it's hard to see him, like Hartline, as a points monster.

I just don't see either of those grouping being so great.
I have the advantage of seeing these guys play more than you do. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm right and you are wrong.
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Smith ain't with the Fish no more, EE. Grimes is their #1 and Patterson is their #2.

Also, have a read up on their line, it's gone to hell in a hand basket. It really isn't even close to even mate. I'll link you up some stories while you get the chap stick because you're going to be licking your lips like crazy.
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Smith ain't with the Fish no more, EE. Grimes is their #1 and Patterson is their #2.

Also, have a read up on their line, it's gone to hell in a hand basket. It really isn't even close to even mate. I'll link you up some stories while you get the chap stick because you're going to be licking your lips like crazy.
Sean Smith is a big CB that I wanted the Browns to pursue. Where is he -- KC?
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I have the advantage of seeing these guys play more than you do. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm right and you are wrong.
I have game pass every year and watch most games unless they're so boring I couldn't sit through it or I'm busy. I've got every game on demand from the past few years if there is anything you think I might have missed or might help that I can go watch right now?
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Nice writeup for the mostpart BDU. The Battle between Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas..was a lot like our QB battle.. It never really existed except in the media.. Lamar Miller was never in doubt for the lead back role.

The big balance of power in this game falls in favor of our D. I expect our D to win this game. Miami's OL is not very good and that advantage should be easy enough to exploit to where it throws the win over to our side.
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Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
I have game pass every year and watch most games unless they're so boring I couldn't sit through it or I'm busy. I've got every game on demand from the past few years if there is anything you think I might have missed or might help that I can go watch right now?

Good post!
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Old 09-02-2013
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Who are the guys who rush besides Wake? Soliai is coming in to his 8th year and has only 3.5 sacks to his name. Randy Starks is coming in to his 10th year and has a much more impressive 32.5 sacks but is on the downhill. He's not been the same monster for a while. He's also questionable for the opener with a knee injury, so even if he does play, he's probably not 100%. There is Oliver Vernon on the other side but he's far from a proven pass rusher, as evidenced by the Dolphins replacing him with Jordan. I just don't see any other monsters on their line apart from Cam Wake. I've certainly not seen any dominance from them in recent years. It's a team strength, but how strong is a whole new question.

I don't think I've underestimated their receivers, either. If Brandon Gibson is the best they have then it speaks volumes. He's had one good year, two very average years and one solid year. The Rams moved on from him because they felt he wasn't an answer for Sam Bradford. In the 2012 season he was very bland. Two good games but the rest a lot of 2/3 catches for 30/40 yards type deal. It's consistent but it falls well short of a guy being a game changer. He did score 5 touchdowns but 2 of them came from the Jets awful goal line. He only had 4 touchdowns in the previous 3 seasons (Admittedly, he missed time with injury in all those seasons) so it's hard to see him, like Hartline, as a points monster.

I just don't see either of those grouping being so great.
First of all, please stop saying "without Wake...blah blah". If any unit loses their best player of course there will be a dropoff. Soliai is a former Pro Bowler (2011) and simply can't be guarded 1 on 1. He demands two blockers almost every time. If anything, Starks is in his prime. He, like Soliai, also demands attention as he can rush the passer. He's healthy and has been for the past two weeks and is is now starting according to the new depth chart. Must not have been paying attention but some sites even list them as a top 5 DT tandem. Olivier Vernon has improved a lot so I wouldn't say "he's far from a proven pass rusher". He was handling Duane Brown, who many tout as the best LT (Thomas is better imo), when we faced the Texans in the preseason. Vernon is actually starting, not Jordan. Dion is actually listed as the 3rd DE behind Vernon and Vaugh Martin. "I've certainly not seen any dominance from them in recent years" Well of course. The Dolphins have been a 6-7 win team for the past four years, they're not going to get a lot of publicity. Just for you: 7th in sacks last season, 12th in 2011, 10th in 2010, and 3rd in 2009. 13th in run defense last year, 3rd in 2011, 7th in 2010, and 18th in 2009. That's without an established DE opposite of Wake and going through 3 defensive coordinators.

Our receivers are as good as Tannehill makes them. While it isn't the best, the WR corp this year is a huge upgrade from what we had last year. Gibson also led all receivers in 1st down and TD conversion percentage and 43 of his 51 catches were for 1st downs last year. A #3 receiver isn't going to put 800+ yards without Brady, Manning, or Rodgers throwing to him. Sorry.

The DL whether you like it or not is top 10 which is what I'd call great. WR's are a tossup.
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Old 09-02-2013
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Safety... I call it even as well.
Woah. Ward is definitely one of the better safeties and I'd probably say him and Jones are about equal but Gipson is no where close to Clemons. Far from even.
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