Why do so many well qualified people keep failing in Cleveland? | Barking Hard

Why do so many well qualified people keep failing in Cleveland?

KingGhoolie

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The qualified people who have failed in Cleveland is sickening, and for some, you, not me, is perplexing.

The collective resumes of Holmgren, Davis, Hue, Savage, Crennel, Sashi, Farmer, and on and on remain impressive. How can so many succeed elesewhere but then fail miserably in Cleveland? Worse, how can so many who fail in Cleveland, players included, move on and do well elsewhere, usually imeediately?

The answer is pretty simple, it really is. As someone who has started up several successful companies, and am engaged in another one as we speak, this is a glaringly easy puzzle.

There is no core culture in Cleveland, Lerner didn't have it, and Haslam sure as heck doesn't have it. When you hire someone off of a resume, often forgotten is that the success the person had came from within someone else's system. There is never a guarantee that someone can repeat their past results in your system, especially if you don't have a system, or what I call core culure.

In the case of the Browns, each exec has continually been off on their own journey, doing whatever the hell they thought was best. Dorsey is a prime example of this pathology. How do you insert a new team and 8 weeks later come to find out that nobody is on the same plane?

How can the Steelers lose Bell and not even have an eye blink in replacing him?

Pittsburgh has an established culture, a system, core beliefs, values and principles. New England is the same deal. ANy successful team has these ingredients, Cleveland does not.

It is said poop rolls down hill. The Browns have poop at the very top of the food chain. They keep trying to hire a hero. They hire a bunch of headstrong a holes, each with their own private philosophy, and what do you get? YOu get the Browns.

The Browns need a leader, not a draft wizzard, They need a leader, and Dorsey is not that man.
 
Ghoolie.. ugh.. Ill entertain you for a minute.

Im sure Ill regret it...

The problem is cyclical.. you cannot instill a good "core culture" without winning.. and you cant win without a good "core culture"

People have come through here mutiple times trying to instill a comprehensive system... and culture..

See: Pettine with the dog bones, orange camo jerseys, awards, etc... Magini with the discipline, accountability, assholery, choir boy academia drafting etc... Holmgren with the whole relaxed west coast philosophy with dumbo Shurmer... Hue and his constant "new browns" talk and payer friendly approach...

Youre acting like we havent tried that.


the problem is, none of these "core cultures" can stick and be built on if we dont WIN EARLY. The only way we will find ourselves out of this loop...

is if a coach can come in here, bring a change... while we have talent.. and win early.. so people buy in.. without that nothing will stick. Winning comes first.
 
And like clockwork here is one of those "look at me" thread starts and the drum beat of how "successful" I am in an effort to boost up myself.

Ghoolie, Ghoolie, Ghoolie, the core of this board knows you. They have read this same post more time they can count. I can only assume you just have saved on your hard drive somewhere at this point.

What were you saying in the other thread about the definition of insanity......

For someone who claims to have "started up several successful companies, and am engaged in another one as we speak" you sure have a lot of free time to come trolling Browns message boards as soon as the Browns have hit their low. People I know who actually have started successful companies and engaged in them don't really spend their time working as a troll on internet message boards, intentionally trying to insult and antagonize fans of their favorite sports team.
 
Ghoolie.. ugh.. Ill entertain you for a minute.

Im sure Ill regret it...

The problem is cyclical.. you cannot instill a good "core culture" without winning.. and you cant win without a good "core culture"

People have come through here mutiple times trying to instill a comprehensive system... and culture..

See: Pettine with the dog bones, orange camo jerseys, awards, etc... Magini with the discipline, accountability, assholery, choir boy academia drafting etc... Holmgren with the whole relaxed west coast philosophy with dumbo Shurmer... Hue and his constant "new browns" talk and payer friendly approach...

Youre acting like we havent tried that.

the problem is, none of these "core cultures" can stick and be built on if we dont WIN EARLY. The only way we will find ourselves out of this loop...

is if a coach can come in here, bring a change... while we have talent.. and win early.. so people buy in.. without that nothing will stick. Winning comes first.

PGL, the idea that in order to overcome a losing culture, one must win quickly is without merit.

The idea that in order to stop losing, one must start winning may be true. But it is self defeating because winning does not happen in a vacuum. Teams typically lose when they do not have the talent and experience to compete effectively in the NFL. Winning happens when an organization has a combination of a competent FO, a good coaching staff and players with enough talent and experience to compete successfully year after year.

Without the above combination, a team is destined to lose until the above combination is achieved. The component most difficult to achieve is players with the necessary talent and experience to compete successfully. And if a team does not have enough talent and experience to complete effectively, no amount of coaching can make it into a winner. The speed with which a winning team can be built depends largely on the starting point. And the time required to build said winning team is essentially inconsequential as long as it is actually allowed to be accomplished.

The problem isn't that we haven't tried something--or anything--the problem is that we haven't tried anything that might have worked long enough for it to work. As clueless as Ghoolie is, he does have a point in that there have been a number of good people come through here (along with some dumb shits too) that were unable to recreate the success that they achieved elsewhere.

An example is Mike Holmgren. Holmgren had tremendous success in Green Bay and Seattle. Why not here? For the answer, take a look at what he started with and how quickly he was dismissed. Unfortunately, the progress he initiated were lost when he was dismissed. Look at all the good young players that were discarded by his successors. Another example is John Dorsey. Dorsey had great success in Green Bay and Kansas City. Will he be given an adequate chance for success here?

I hope Dorsey does not suffer the same fate that Holmgren suffered.
 
Ghoolie 'aint clueless. I loved his post (and most of his few and far between posts) until he dogged Dorsey at the very end. I've hated every Crennel to Jackson hire (except maybe CHUD). I've hated every Holmgren to Sashi hire. Dorsey's done better with Mayfield and Ward than all those other fools combined, so I'm inclined to give Dorsey the benefit of the doubt.

Do the Haslams stink and make it stink all the way on down? Oh yea, absolutely. Will the Haslams' incompetence be the death of Dorsey? Yea, probably.

Did the Haslams' stink affect Clueless Hue Jackson? Nah, Hue's just as incompetent. If you are what your record says you are, then Hue is the worst coach in the history of sports. Hue could have held his head high and gone out quietly with dignity, but he chose to go out kicking and screaming while blaming everyone else.

Jerry Jones 'aint done shit since Jimmy Johnson, and billionaires have been so successful in their lives that they think they can do anything. What they can't do is be a GM of a football team any more or less than any other "fan" out there, which is why I'm somewhat optimistic that they are allowing Dorsey to find the next head coach.

-Al
 
Ghoolie 'aint clueless. I loved his post (and most of his few and far between posts) until he dogged Dorsey at the very end. I've hated every Crennel to Jackson hire (except maybe CHUD). I've hated every Holmgren to Sashi hire. Dorsey's done better with Mayfield and Ward than all those other fools combined, so I'm inclined to give Dorsey the benefit of the doubt.

Do the Haslams stink and make it stink all the way on down? Oh yea, absolutely. Will the Haslams' incompetence be the death of Dorsey? Yea, probably.

Did the Haslams' stink affect Clueless Hue Jackson? Nah, Hue's just as incompetent. If you are what your record says you are, then Hue is the worst coach in the history of sports. Hue could have held his head high and gone out quietly with dignity, but he chose to go out kicking and screaming while blaming everyone else.

Jerry Jones 'aint done shit since Jimmy Johnson, and billionaires have been so successful in their lives that they think they can do anything. What they can't do is be a GM of a football team any more or less than any other "fan" out there, which is why I'm somewhat optimistic that they are allowing Dorsey to find the next head coach.

-Al

He may not be clueless. But bashing Browns fans constantly, doesn't exactly make him a fan favorite. Fuck him!
 
Ghoolie is our Al Swearengen, whether we like it or not (hence the 'stache). ... I begrudge that pervert, his capacity for happiness...





-Al, (the Al that's not a Swearengen)...
 
Whatever Al. Could care less about that asshat's football take.

Anyone so hell bent on ruining strangers' experiences on the internet has a screw loose. I mean think about what it could take for you to get off on constantly trying to agitate people who are simply looking to enjoy their fandom of an NFL franchise. Seriously. He's utterly pathetic.

I categorically disagree with anyone taking the "I look past it" stance. That's a capitulation of ethics in my book.
 
Ethics? The discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation.


Touché, Grey, touché...

Even though Ghoulie is a passionate Browns fan (more passionate than most), and very much unlike the Steeler fans SplattJack and KnowitFBI, we have the moral duty and obligation to stop him from destroying another website.

Thanks, man. I get it now. Let's get back to talking about the Browns instead of talking about a troll.

-Al
 
Ghoolie is our Al Swearengen, whether we like it or not (hence the 'stache). ... I begrudge that pervert, his capacity for happiness...


-Al, (the Al that's not a Swearengen)...

I thought of Ghoolie when we met Swearengen.

That said, I disagree with the premise - MOST of the people who failed here, failed elsewhere as head coaches or GMs if given the chance later. Let's not try to rewrite history.

Holmgren was a good head coach, but terrible GM
Crennel was a good DC, but terrible HC, and remained so. I seem to recall Ghoolie calling him 'Belicheck's coffee-fetcher', which implies to me that Ghoolie didn't think he was well qualified.

The list goes on with a string of coaches and GMs that, more or less, were not considered 'top guys'. Butch Davis would be the exception - and he took the team to the Playoffs.

Player-wise, who has gone on to have an extraordinary career. Gordon hasn't proven he can stay clean (or healthy) for a full season yet. Who else is there?

I do agree there is no core culture and that starts with Ownership, since they are the thing that doesn't change (very often, anyway), but the culture can be changed with the right people around the owner.

People ARE policy.
 
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