Cavaliers - 2021-22 Cavaliers | Page 14 | Barking Hard

Cavaliers 2021-22 Cavaliers

Masters said:
Don't think players on this team would jump at the chance to play with LBJ. They said as much last season when the rumor started floating

CLE would not have most of these players if LBJ had come back. Unless he came back as an outright FA with no sign and trade, CLE would be having to move key young players to get him.

No team is getting the LBJ who last played in CLE. While he can still ball when on the court, he is not the model of health he once was. In the last 3 full seasons he has played (covid bubble year not a full season) he has missed something like 30 games a year on average. Also in his last 3 full seasons he has missed the playoffs twice and bounced in the first round. He required the 3 month layoff of covid and the bubble to get LA that ring.

LBJ is arguably one of the best, if not the best basketball player of all time. But he is 37 year old LBJ. Not in his prime LBJ. He is no longer a player who can carry a team to he finals. So unless CLE had a star to actually be the focal point (which he wants AD to be, but good luck) it doesn't make sense for CLE.

I don't know what these young players will turn out to be. But take GS as an example. When Klay, Steph, and Green were 2nd and 3rd year players no one was thinking these guys are going to be the core of a dynasty. Now, I am not trying to say CLE core will become that. Only that the Cavs players are still young. None of them have reached their peak or ceiling. The potential is very high. For a team like CLE their best bet right now for sustained success is to see where the core of Garland, Mobley, and Allen can get to
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I really love where this team is going... I'm dying just to see the kind of jump Mobley will make in his 2nd year... Garland is only gonna get better... I'm excited for this team...
 
Masters said:
Don't think players on this team would jump at the chance to play with LBJ. They said as much last season when the rumor started floating

CLE would not have most of these players if LBJ had come back. Unless he came back as an outright FA with no sign and trade, CLE would be having to move key young players to get him.
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A trade would've happened last month. if he came around the all-star break it would have been a goodwill buy out by the Lakers mostly, that was my hope before he signed this new deal. or just waiting till the 2023 start. he would not want the team gutted duh.
Masters said:
No team is getting the LBJ who last played in CLE. While he can still ball when on the court, he is not the model of health he once was. In the last 3 full seasons he has played (covid bubble year not a full season) he has missed something like 30 games a year on average. Also in his last 3 full seasons he has missed the playoffs twice and bounced in the first round. He required the 3 month layoff of covid and the bubble to get LA that ring.
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True he's older. but even on the bench with a good team he's worth a few points a night in leadership alone.
Masters said:
LBJ is arguably one of the best, if not the best basketball player of all time. But he is 37 year old LBJ. Not in his prime LBJ. He is no longer a player who can carry a team to he finals. So unless CLE had a star to actually be the focal point (which he wants AD to be, but good luck) it doesn't make sense for CLE.
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That's nothing more than massaging AD. sadly he needs that sh it.
Masters said:
I don't know what these young players will turn out to be. But take GS as an example. When Klay, Steph, and Green were 2nd and 3rd year players no one was thinking these guys are going to be the core of a dynasty. Now, I am not trying to say CLE core will become that.
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Those 3 as a group might be the most over rated group in NBA history. casual fans buy that hype but we lifers can read the tea leafs. Steph is a great player yet he can thank the analytical thinkers that got into the game and magically discovered 3 is more than 2. I could add a few chapters but I won't waste my time with begging KD etc
Masters said:
Only that the Cavs players are still young. None of them have reached their peak or ceiling. The potential is very high. For a team like CLE their best bet right now for sustained success is to see where the core of Garland, Mobley, and Allen can get to
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They have no other choice. now
 
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Kegeratorz said:
Not just the contracts, movies, restaurants, and all LA offers.
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There is sooo much $$$$$$$$ to be made out there. recall in the 1990s being out there hearing Smokey Robinson on the radio DJ ing. I thought WTF till I learned he was making a few mill working small hours. and there were many others out there doing the same stuff. nice
 
I thought AD would be sensational with LBJ, like most of us. And when LBJ added Michael Westbrook I thought that would be an over the top trio. Man was I wrong.
 
madmadworld said:
A trade would've happened last month. if he came around the all-star break it would have been a goodwill buy out by the Lakers mostly, that was my hope before he signed this new deal. or just waiting till the 2023 start. he would not want the team gutted duh.
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That would be wishful thinking. LAL would not be buying out LBJ and letting him go for nothing mid season. LAL do like making money. LBJ = fans in the seats. He also still a player teams would give up valuable assets to get. So be it anywhere from last year's all-star game to the end of the season (prior to he new contract) getting LBJ would require giving up assets. Only chance of LBJ to CLE and having all the kids would be him coming as an outright FA.

History says otherwise on the gutting. The chasing rings LBJ has wanted nothing to do with developing young players, and the mistakes that come with them. History shows that in all his stops. You can look as recent as when he arrived in LA. That experiment lasted all of a season.

madmadworld said:
True he's older. but even on the bench with a good team he's worth a few points a night in leadership alone.
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I was not trying to dismiss LBJs value. Just that you are not getting LBJ that gives you 70+ games, full go on both ends for 34÷ minutes, and the man who can carry anyone you surrounded him with deep in to the playoffs.
madmadworld said:
That's nothing more than massaging AD. sadly he needs that sh it.
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A bit. But when healthy Davis is a player that can carry a team on both ends. The point is LBJ does want to be with someone who can carry the load at this point in his career, if the goal is still contending for titles (I question if that is LBJs singular goal at this point considering he signed that extension and LAL are not going to be contending for titles). LBJ knows he can't hold up the same now as he once could.
madmadworld said:
Those 3 as a group might be the most over rated group in NBA history. casual fans buy that hype but we lifers can read the tea leafs. Steph is a great player yet he can thank the analytical thinkers that got into the game and magically discovered 3 is more than 2. I could add a few chapters but I won't waste my time with begging KD etc
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Not a casual fan. But you also sound like one, just more on the side of "I don't like what the game has turned in to" group. I would venture a guess that as someone living on the west coast in CA I have watched far more GSW games over the last decade than you have. Steph, Klay, and Green are far from over rated. If anything they get under rated, other than general overall media coverage. In part because they represent what the game has changed to, and the old school fans don't like it, then try to devalue their accomplishments. Or they do so because they don't like the personalities of those 3 guys. They went to two finals without KD. Including going through KD and coming back from 3-1 down to do so. They won one of those two finals. Yes they went and "begged" KD to join them. They knew the 3 of them were not enough to get through a healthy 3 of LBJ, Love, and Kyrie after they gave up a 3-1 to them. Now without KD they just went and got another title, and barring injury will very likely be playing for another title come the end of this season. Those 3 are not individually the most gifted/skilled players, and I am not trying to make them out as such. But as a collective group any team would hope to end up with such (in combination with the right coach).
madmadworld said:
They have no other choice. now
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They really never had a choice. Small market (and being CLE) best chance of finding sustained championship contention is through drafting and development
 
Masters said:
That would be wishful thinking. LAL would not be buying out LBJ and letting him go for nothing mid season. LAL do like making money. LBJ = fans in the seats. He also still a player teams would give up valuable assets to get. So be it anywhere from last year's all-star game to the end of the season (prior to he new contract) getting LBJ would require giving up assets. Only chance of LBJ to CLE and having all the kids would be him coming as an outright FA.

History says otherwise on the gutting. The chasing rings LBJ has wanted nothing to do with developing young players, and the mistakes that come with them. History shows that in all his stops. You can look as recent as when he arrived in LA. That experiment lasted all of a season.


I was not trying to dismiss LBJs value. Just that you are not getting LBJ that gives you 70+ games, full go on both ends for 34÷ minutes, and the man who can carry anyone you surrounded him with deep in to the playoffs.

A bit. But when healthy Davis is a player that can carry a team on both ends. The point is LBJ does want to be with someone who can carry the load at this point in his career, if the goal is still contending for titles (I question if that is LBJs singular goal at this point considering he signed that extension and LAL are not going to be contending for titles). LBJ knows he can't hold up the same now as he once could.

Not a casual fan. But you also sound like one, just more on the side of "I don't like what the game has turned in to" group. I would venture a guess that as someone living on the west coast in CA I have watched far more GSW games over the last decade than you have. Steph, Klay, and Green are far from over rated. If anything they get under rated, other than general overall media coverage. In part because they represent what the game has changed to, and the old school fans don't like it, then try to devalue their accomplishments. Or they do so because they don't like the personalities of those 3 guys. They went to two finals without KD. Including going through KD and coming back from 3-1 down to do so. They won one of those two finals. Yes they went and "begged" KD to join them. They knew the 3 of them were not enough to get through a healthy 3 of LBJ, Love, and Kyrie after they gave up a 3-1 to them. Now without KD they just went and got another title, and barring injury will very likely be playing for another title come the end of this season. Those 3 are not individually the most gifted/skilled players, and I am not trying to make them out as such. But as a collective group any team would hope to end up with such (in combination with the right coach).

They really never had a choice. Small market (and being CLE) best chance of finding sustained championship contention is through drafting and development
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I won't take the time to debate you line by line. as you did such a great job at it yourself,. but thanks for coming out as a warriors fan. always wondered where you were when LBJ returned. since you are in here now.

I will say this that even a casual fan should know. the NBA is a players league if LBJ wanted out around the all-star break with just a few months left on his contract the Lakers would have let him go.

Living in Vegas I get all the Warrior games the past 2 decades as locals.plus league pass anyway. first it was KD, now they have Jordan Poole,Andrew Wiggins,Otto Porter Jr., Kevon Looney. without Wiggins & Poole they don't win this past Ring. thus the over rated. my guess you are too much of a fan to understand. oh well ...........they are a Very well run organisation.

One more thing LBJ get's this bad rap with young players by hater/dumb talking heads and you casual hater fans eat it up. did he run off TT,Kyrie,Shumpert, even Delly ? the fact is that was a more Pat Riley thing in Miami. note how Haslem is still there. not a hater here.
 
madmadworld said:
I won't take the time to debate you line by line. as you did such a great job at it yourself,. but thanks for coming out as a warriors fan. always wondered where you were when LBJ returned. since you are in here now.
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Not a GSW fan. I am a Cavs fan and have been my entire life. Was right there rooting for the Cavs when LBJ left, and rooting for them when he returned. Including having to burn a metric ton of data minutes on my phone for games 6 and 7 of the title season as I just arrived in China on business for game 6.

But just like with NFL and MLB, while I have my favorite team I root for, I follow the league as a whole.
madmadworld said:
I will say this that even a casual fan should know. the NBA is a players league if LBJ wanted out around the all-star break with just a few months left on his contract the Lakers would have let him go.
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Yes it is a player driven league. But productive star players such as LBJ don't get outright bought out with no return for the team that holds their contract. LBJ is not Wall, Carmelo, etc. (note those guys still had to sit around at home for a year to before being bought out). You certainly didn't see HOU just buying out Harden when he wanted out (or the Nets). So thinking LBJ would just get released to he wild for nothing in return is wishful thinking as a fan of the Cavs.
madmadworld said:
Living in Vegas I get all the Warrior games the past 2 decades as locals.plus league pass anyway. first it was KD, now they have Jordan Poole,Andrew Wiggins,Otto Porter Jr., Kevon Looney. without Wiggins & Poole they don't win this past Ring. thus the over rated. my guess you are too much of a fan to understand. oh well ...........they are a Very well run organisation.
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Then with that access if you were watching GSW you would know that those 3 were the core for their first championship, and the second finals appearance. Including their record setting regular season record the second year.

I am not saying those 3 can do it alone. For those first two they needed Iggy. Yes this last season they added Wiggins, along with smart drafting of Poole and Looney. Having roll player pieces on a championship team is a bit of the obvious. You go remove Green, Curry, or Klay from those teams they are also not likely in the finals or winning the finals. Those others you can make a case either way. Hence not over rated players. The calling them overrated is as much hater/dumb fan talk as you bring up in the next paragraph imo.

I fully understand what a well run organization the GSWs are.
madmadworld said:
One more thing LBJ get's this bad rap with young players by hater/dumb talking heads and you casual hater fans eat it up. did he run off TT,Kyrie,Shumpert, even Delly ? the fact is that was a more Pat Riley thing in Miami. note how Haslem is still there. not a hater here.
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Kyrie and TT were indeed reasons LBJ did come back. But as someone who follows CLE I have to assume you are aware LBJ had issues with Kyrie, and was also by reports pushing for Kyrie to get moved after year 1 being back.

Shump was a player the Cavs traded for after LBJ was back, and part of the JR Smith trade.

Not saying LBJ wants absolutely nothing to do with young players at all, which you seem to be trying to paint my statement to. LBJ just has little patience for them. If they don't start playing like the vets he wants them to, they get moved within a year and replaced with higher floor/lower ceiling higher cost vets. Happened in MIA, CLE, and now LAL. Along with burning all draft capital to get them, and not caring that it removes the pipeline for younger developing players (can go to the GSW example).

The only thing I dislike about LBJ is how he left CLE the first time (the televised decision). I don't fault him for having no patience for youth when his singular goal was chasing the ring count. It's not good for an organization, but the organizations future is only LBJs concern when it's about winning chips now.

Don't follow your Haslem comment. He was a grizzled vet before LBJ even got to MIA. Dude is like 40 now.
 
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