Jesus Christ Wasn't Born on Dec. 25 | Barking Hard

Jesus Christ Wasn't Born on Dec. 25

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The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year ( The Companion Bible, 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).

It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife Elizabeth would have a child (Luke 1:8-13). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (Luke 1:23-24). Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.
http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/biblical-evidence-shows-jesus-christ-wasnt-born-dec-25/

All evidence points to 1 of 3 Hebrew feast days.
Yom Teruah also called Feast of Trumpets
Yom Kippur also called Day of Atonement
Sukkot also called Feast of Tabernacles

These are 21 days apart in September. from my studies i pick Feast of Trumpets with 85% certainty,
with Day of Atonement @ 14%.
after 25 years with very little if any thought of being a Christian then challenged to study the evidence of Christ and Christianity and finding it to be true i now find this time of year very troubling. in those 25 years it was only this time of the year i gave Jesus any thought at all.

Meanwhile the devil just laughs at mankind and God at this time of year.
we as Christians should not give him this.

Jesus will return on the same date he was born thus the reason for satan confusing the children of God.
imagine if this too was a known fact. we would be celebrating His birth when he returns. thus perhaps many more would be saved in the style of that of the other person crucified with him.

Luke 23
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

I have no notes from the study we did years ago that would be easy to post. but there are some on the net if one wants to look them over. the Conclusion at the bottom of this page states it pretty well............ the rest ?
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/triangulating
 
I looked over the net and there is a lot of good work posted, but it cannot be done by one person and most do not give any credit to the sources they have used and they obviously have used them.
In the group i was in near 20 years ago included the disciplines of History,Astrology, Theology,Archeology,Philosophy without these it is near impossible to do so. and some involved were not believers in the supernatural. nailing down a exact date was not possible due to many factors at the end of the study.
that does not seem to stop others these days from doing so. the 9-11 date seems popular hmm. could be.

Unless you have a preconceived opinion no one will come up with December and end up with September that is obvious.
those who say it does not matter read the Bible as God gets very upset when his people go off into sun worship or other type of god.
and this is plainly in that category when one looks at how this Dec 25 came about.

Maybe if i fell right into my Father's church and all this would not matter to me too I'll never know. my Faith in Christ/Christianity came from studying and at first wanting to disprove it.
i was good i thought had my own god in my box and did not need this in my life but was challenged, the more i read the more convinced i became till God had me backed into a corner so to speak. along the way studying the other major religions finding their fallacies, imitations. is God working with these people ? i have no idea with some.
wished i had done so 25 year earlier,but i can see issues from a secular and Gods veiw point....and it is different sometimes.

On the secular side of this, now that we are all grown up why not have it on a Thursday ? so some can get a 4 day weekend out of this abomination ? that might sell.

Certainly glad i had my Faith before the net because with all the info that it contains there is also BS. sifting thru it all would be a challenge unto itself.
some of the depictions and right out heresy is mind boggling. there are some very intelligent writers who having done much reading only to understand none of it.
not getting into great detail i recently came upon a site that had me reading over a hour till it was found to be expounding the best written argument for legalism i ever seen. how anticlimactic, wish i had seen that coming.

Unlike some who find math and science a means to dismiss God I like others find they confirm a creator.

If one happens to be protestant look at the word it self pro-testant we came about by protesting things the Catholic Church had perpetuated.
and this is another example. before you ask : so do you think all Catholic's are going to hell ? no i have meet and knew m any good ones who's Faith in Christ was before mine and very strong.

Some pray there is a God & hope there is no satan. you will most likely never find a God that you will approve of but remember He is not on trial here we are.
one thing i have learned is Jesus was all about the truth, claimed he was The Truth. and this christ-mas day is anything but the truth.

Good Luck to you in your journey
 
Anyone with a Bible pretty much knows Christ's DOB isn't dec. 25th. No one knows the exact date. That's just the chosen date to celebrate it. The Bible does not mention celebrating his birth.. +

The bible also does not say we should celebrate the day of his resurection (not that that's wrong, it's just not Biblical) ..what people call Easter..which is actually named after Ishtar..a pagen fertility celebration..that's why there are bunny's and eggs. There are no bunny's, eggs or celebration on the day of Christ's resurrection in the Bible. A lot of paganism has crept into Christianity..i

Additionally and probably most important... f you do some research ..There is nothing in the Bible that says we should worship on Sunday. Saturday is the Sabbath day..the 7th day established during creation is THE day Christians and Jews should be in church.. When the previously pagan emperor Constantine converted to Christianity..the Pope changed the day of worthip to sunday in order to get more pagens (sun worshipers as in SUN-DAY).. into the church..sorry, but the pope is a human and humans do not have the authority to change the law of God.

Funny thing is..The 4th commandment, which begins with "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

The only commandment that begins with REMEMBER.. Cuz God knew we woudl forget and be duped by Satan into giving up our Sabbath blessing to worship on Sunday. While God is worthy of being worshipped every day. The Sabbath is the biblical day of worship..which is why I am a Sabbath keeping Christian.. Some people say the Sabbath is for the Jews..but that's not supported by the Bible either..and the Sabbath was ordained by God at creation.. Which is about 2,000 years before the Abram became Abram..the father of the Jewish/Christian nation.

That is why it is important to study the Bible for yourself.. Don't believe what people tell you, don't believe what I tell you.. Go to your Bible and test everything against scripture. People don't interpret scripture..Scripture interprets scripture.. What that means is you look at all information on a certain topic and you will see a trend..and the truth will be revealed.. it's not a mystery..The Bible is quite clear on nearly all topics if you take the time to actually read, study and search, with and open heart and prayers to God to reaveal truth to you. Keep searching my friends. God loves you.. and if you think you have no sin...satan has decieved you.
 
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St. Patrick wasn't born on March 17th either.

"Saint Patrick's Day is observed on 17 March, the date of his death.<SUP id=cite_ref-6 class=reference>[6]</SUP> It is celebrated inside and outside Ireland as a religious and cultural holiday. In the dioceses of Ireland, it is both a solemnity and a holy day of obligation; it is also a celebration of Ireland itself."

:)
 
Anyone with a Bible pretty much knows Christ's DOB isn't dec. 25th. No one knows the exact date. That's just the chosen date to celebrate it. The Bible does not mention celebrating his birth.. +

Over the years few Christians I've meet... would guess 1 in 7 knew this truth. actually more non Christians knew this in my experience. I can understand why this was done 1600 or so years ago the mixing paganism in, but not the past 100-200 years for sure. why the pope and others have not righted this wrong it's is no longer acceptable. imo

The perpetuation of falsehoods and down right lies should end. the truths discovered the past 200+ years need to come to light for all Christians from all denominations. our differences are not so great that the truth can't over come.

Sez.EJ
have a question
you being a "Sabbath keeping Christian" have any effect on your Salvation ?
 
Sez.EJ
have a question
you being a "Sabbath keeping Christian" have any effect on your Salvation ?

Salvation is not at issue. Salvation is based upon faith/Grace and the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. I just believe that if you look at the Bible from front to back, the overwhelming abundance of evidence is that the 7th day (Saturday) Sabbath applies to all believers. There is zero Biblical evidence of the Sabbath ever being changed to Sunday. I actually believe there is someone who has $10,000 for anyone who can show that the the Sabbath day was changed in the Bible. From the dawn of creation when Sabbath was established,... was observed throughout the bible, by Christ, Paul and the other contributors to the Bible both old and new testament.

It is truly a blessing, a whole day of rest to put away all the cares, stresses, and burdens of daily life. Time to spend time in the Word, worship, time with family, and out in nature. I don't work, clean, shop, and don't do the normal things that are done the other 6 days. It is an amazing blessing..from Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday... It's a great stress reliever in our stress filled world. Take care.

** Now if you meant is it a matter of Salvation for those who don't keep the proper Sabbath. I believe we are judged by the light/truth we are given. Most Christians are completely unaware of the 7th day Sabbath and I don't belive you will be judged based upon what you don't know. However, if you have the truth and reject it... that's another thing completly.. Fortunatly.. it' wont be me making that call. :)
 
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Salvation is not at issue. Salvation is based upon faith/Grace and the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is true.

You have tried being a Sabbath keeping Christian and found "It is truly a blessing" unto you.
that is good for you.
Yet i feel not bound to the laws of the Hebrew/Jewish way of life in anyway.
my freedom, Faith in Christ allows me to truly believe The Holy Spirit in me to guide me thru this life. The Law all of it.. is it bad ? no it's of God. but none of us could perform it.

For myself any changes in me since becoming a Christian i give full credit to God and The Holy Spirit. in hindsight they were working on me before in knew them.
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
that verse is mind boggling. God maker of all things thought of me and you before building all we see.
Enjoy
 
This is true.

You have tried being a Sabbath keeping Christian and found "It is truly a blessing" unto you.
that is good for you.
Yet i feel not bound to the laws of the Hebrew/Jewish way of life in anyway.
my freedom, Faith in Christ allows me to truly believe The Holy Spirit in me to guide me thru this life. The Law all of it.. is it bad ? no it's of God. but none of us could perform it.

For myself any changes in me since becoming a Christian i give full credit to God and The Holy Spirit. in hindsight they were working on me before in knew them.
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
that verse is mind boggling. God maker of all things thought of me and you before building all we see.
Enjoy


Your link/website is suspended so I could not see it. I am very pleased that you have found a relationship with God. It's the most important thing in this world..and the next.. and I agree that even when I was not following.. God was calling me. I was running away from Him most of my life.. running with the devil if truth is told..and yet I can look back and see His hand in so many things.. continuing to bless me even though I was not following... I know now that even then God had a plan for my life.

Jeremiah 29:11-13New King James Version (NKJV)
<SUP class=versenum>11 </SUP>For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. <SUP class=versenum>12 </SUP>Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. <SUP class=versenum>13 </SUP>And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

As for you saying about the laws of the Hebrew/Jews.. I don't see the Sabbath as such. Sabbath was created by God at creation..a good 2,000 years before there was a jew (don't hold me to the exact number of years..but it's a lot).. and even after God let the Jews out of Egypt.. he gave manna.. and teaching them again about the Sabbath with no manna falling on that day.. WELL BEFORE..the 10 commandments were given.. Christ observed the Sabbath..and while part of the reason he was killed was because of the way he observed the Sabbath... he never once stated that the Sabbath did not apply.. after all He created it. Paul also observed the Sabbath and met with the Gentiles he was teaching about Christ... on the Sabbath day. If you do a full study on everything in the Bible on the Sabbath.. you can call it a law.. but I see it as a gift from God.. he knows how busy we are...he knows the rest our body needs. After all he created our bodies. He also knows that we need time to reconnect fully with Him..and set aside a whole day for us to rest, worship, be with family, and out in nature.. I had a hard time getting my head around for quite some time.. I could not get by the legality, and the ritual of it..but once I realilzed what a blessing it was.. WOW..that and God convicted my heart on the matter.. Also.. if you look at Christ's prophesy for the end ot times.in Matthew 24 . Jesus says: ..." But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day..." Which tells me that Christ intended for us to continue the Sabbath observance AFTER he was gone. Keep searching my friend.. It is truly a blessing. Matter of fact I'm doing my Bible study for this week right now..but wanted to respond. and yet I do agree with you true freedom surely lies in following Christ. Happy Sabbath!
 
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We should not study the Bible to find proof to sustain our opinions; but in order to know what God says... I had been quite guilty of the first part in regards to the Sabbath. I probably spent a couple years studying the Bible to PROVE why it didn't apply to modern Christians. But when I realized my error.. that I was biased in my study and trying to prove what I already believed to be right.. (which is the wrong way to study) I prayed.... "God, show me what you want me to know, and lead me to know Your truth". He convicted my heart and showed me what a blessing the Sabbath can truly be. It was a journey.. but faith is the journey of an entire life. Anyone who thinks they have arrived... is in trouble.
 
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Anyone who thinks they have arrived... is in trouble.

That is a cliché phrase. don't know who started could apply to many endeavors, line of work etc. it's ok i guess in the right context yet a bit ambiguous. paraphrasing Paul: we should finish as we start with Faith. Faithing is what we can do under all circumstances.

The word Faith is sometimes miss understood by those outside of it and even by us at times.
Persons without Faith look at us and say : you all have Faith in things you can't see a invisible man in the sky. maybe some do ? for me, never had the no seeing of God lack of vision. His handy work in all there is ... far to obvious to deny. Satan knows God exists yet any Faith he may have is not as ours. questioning others Faith/commitment just not my way. sharing truths that build more Faith & trust just seems right.

Back on topic if one raises ones Children with this lie of Christ-mas , what happens when they grow up and find the truth ? this type of event and other lies could shake their Faith & trust.

The only Christian type cliché phrase i like is the simple one Jesus Saves.
 
I don't see Christmas as a lie. It's just a day chosen to celebrate. Nothing more nothing less. Santa Claus is a lie I think kids will have issue with. My mom told me that when she found out Santa was a lie, she figured Christ was too. Not until she was older did she come back to faith. Christ is not a lie.. big difference there for me.


Oh, and my saying we should not study to the Bible to support our opionions.. is not laying a trip on anyone..it's truth.... We study the Bible to find out what God want's us to know..not to prove our point on what we WANT the Bible to say. That's how bad teachings and nonbibical lies get perpetuated. I was not saying you were doing that..but a point about Bible study in general..that is why I used myself as an example of trying to study the Bible to prove the Sabbath didn't apply.. I thought I knew the answer before I read what the Bible said on the topic . So I studied seeking texts which supported my preconcieved beliefs.. (which is the wrong way to study)... But when I changed my attitude on how I studied.. praying for God to lead me.. Then and only then.. was the truth revealed to me.....

....... For example.. if I want to prove that it's ok to kill my enemy.. I can find text to support that in the Bible. I could pick and choose what I want that only supports that point. but if we study to find what God really wants to reveal to us, ...the overwhelming theme is to love your enemy. That is what I mean by studying to support our opinions. The Bible interprets itself by building text upon text on a given topic.. .

Take care.
 
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I don't see Christmas as a lie. It's just a day chosen to celebrate. Nothing more nothing less.

It's not only just a lie but from the bowels of Hell. It's a potentially a soul stealing lie..
by your own admission you speak of your mother having been troubled by the dual association.
which would have never happened if 200 years ago the church world have dropped this abomination.

Glad to hear she has been changed by Gods grace.
take care
 
I'm not sure what he means either. I am passionate..

Perhaps it's because nearly all Biblical discussions often turn ugly here. I'm hesitant to engage at all because a typed word is easily misread or misinterpreted. I still don't see celebrating the birth of Christ as an evil thing. (but that's just me, I have no problem with how you feel) It being turned into the big money grab,gift giving frenzy... that's another story completely..

All this, and a lot more would be solved if Christians actually read the Bible. Most don't have a clue what is really says. But I don't want to get started down that road..it's a whole new can of worms.
 
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Great thread Madworld.. very good stuff..

I went to catholic school from kindergarten through senior year of high school so I have my fair share of catholic/christian knowledge..

Although I am not an avid practicioner.. I still consider myself catholic.

one of the things that frustrates me about our country these days is that so many people who arent religious or who have no knowledge of religious backgrounds.. always think someone who is catholic.. means they are souther baptist/evangelical/(or that one church of crazies that do all of those hateful protests) and it becomes quite exhausting explaining to them that its not like that at all.


outside of all of that..

There is one thing I am struggling with right now as it pertains to faith/science.

As I was taught (by catholic monks mind you) the bible is not literal.. it is part history part allegory.. especially the old testament.. and that we cant get too wrapped up in the facts.. jst the actual message..

Free Will is something I have a hard time understanding

I simply dont believe in it. The same scientific reasoning and deduction I use to validate the existance of God
. Is the same reasoning and theory that completely eradicates the notion of free will. I can go into it if you want (its a simple analogy involving a pool table.. newtons laws.. and biology) but free will just seems impossible.

I think we all have a destiny.. a set of tracks we cant jump.. it is what it is. Any descision we make to change our lives around for the better.. or go down a wrong path.. is a descision we were always going to make regardless.
 
It's not only just a lie but from the bowels of Hell. It's a potentially a soul stealing lie..
by your own admission you speak of your mother having been troubled by the dual association.
which would have never happened if 200 years ago the church world have dropped this abomination.

Glad to hear she has been changed by Gods grace.
take care

It is my understanding that the particular date December 25th was chosen to Christianize a Pagan holiday/festival. Dies Natalis Solis Invicti. "The birthday of the unconquered sun." PGL, could not agree more with the part history/part allegory line. This seems like this could eventually become a touchy subject so I'll leave it with that. "Faith in Christ allows me to truly believe The Holy Spirit in me to guide me thru this life. The Law all of it.. is it bad ? no it's of God. but none of us could perform it." +1
 
Believe me it's not a put down Sez.

This board doesn't realize how lucky they are to have your diversity.

I immensely enjoy and learn from all newcomers when it comes to Sez's bible facts.


Oh by the way, no comment on St. Patrick ? He was a good dude, no?:)
 
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