Jesus Christ Wasn't Born on Dec. 25 | Page 3 | Barking Hard

Jesus Christ Wasn't Born on Dec. 25

Don't make it harder than it is. It says wine..it's wine, and not hard drink...

Madworld is right.. It could not possibly be "hard drink" because the Bible advises against it..so Christ would not make "hard drink" but wine because he would not try to lead people or promote people toward sin/drunkennes. If it were hard drink..that's what it would be called.

Sorry, I'm not trying to make anything difficult. The Bible says that God gave wine to make men glad (buzzed?) oil to make their faces shine, and bread to sustain their hearts. Psalm 104:15. The Bible warns us of our overindulgence. "Be careful or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap." Luke 21:34. I interpret that as to become habitual or form a habit, not that you will be damned to Hell for getting drunk, once, twice or twenty four times. Just as Mad literally saw the writing on the wall to stop what was either a habit or becoming a habit of the flesh that he had to have on a day to day basis. Alcohol is not a necessity of life. In God’s eyes, one does not have to drink to show maturity, virility or sociability. And because of the enormous destruction caused by alcohol abuse today, many people have decided that it is better to abstain even if the Bible does not require us to. In my eyes that is a more respectable position than trying to argue that the Bible itself forbids the use of alcoholic beverages. I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that not only in drinking, but all lessons learned to one in the Bible are based on each individual's interpretation.
 
I disagree that the bible is up to individual interpretations..That's dangerous because we are not as smart as we think we are and the heart is "deceitfully wicked".. per the Bible.. I am of the school that the Bible interprets itself..

What that means one should study all verses on a specific topic, old to new testament..also taking context into account. . who was the author talking to and why..then you generally will find a clear patter. Otherwise you stand to pull a single verse out of context and apply a personal interpetation of it that the Bible did not intend. ..



another example I mentioned previously.. I can interpret several old testament verses to support me going out and killing my enemy... no problem if I choose to ignore many other verses and interpret the Bible on my own... However, this is not Biblical at all..and the danger of personal interpretation...which is how a lot of cults get started.. ..as for Alcohol.. I go with the BIble..that it is not forbidden anywhere.. but I have personal 'feelings' about it being evil.. But I don't believe that those who partake of an alcholic beverage as committing evil. But I am not adding my OWN interpretation to the Bible. The evils of drunkennsess are well documented. Hope that helps..
 
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Let me say if it matters. i was not a Christian when i quit beer daily. purely financial in my thoughts at the time.

EJ not picking on you just the word.

Cults
We are all cults in the eyes of the Catholic Church. the word is used in derogatory terms to basically say you are not US.... so you are wrong. If one really studies the Bible one finds the majority is always WRONG. it's the a minority God is always working with trying to get the majority on board.

Adam & Eve 2 people how small can you get.
Noah & his family
Moses
Jeremiah - more on him later.
Jesus
skipped a few but... get the point ?

Long standing organizations become hard to support due to the piling on effect at best corrupted at worst. if one Really looks at them. going outside this box. most Americans i have meet i like. i support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. do i like/support everything this government does ? get the point ?

Many/most of these long standing denominations have So many trips they lay on the congregates if they or outsiders throughly investigates them it's a head shaker. they are held back from new discoveries by their old traditions. and in many cases look stupid doing so.

Here is just 1 on the creation side.
Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:2
did anyone ever point out there is a long gap in time between those 2 verses in your church ?
older institutions don't want to touch this. yet it makes sense.
 
Regarding Genesis vs 1 and 2 is discussed in our church. We spend a great deal of time discussing creation in our church. As a Sabbath keeping church we discuss creation a good deal as it is tied directly to Sabbath. A big reason for the Sabbath is to honor God as our creator as it was ordained at creation. 4th Commandment says 7th day; whis is Saturday.

Just look at the gospel accounts of the crucifixion.. Christ was crucified on Friday (good Friday)..they waited to prepare his body because then next day was Sabbath (Saturday) and that was something that they would not do on the Sabbath (touching a dead body) ..and he rose on Sunday.

The 4th commandment is the only one that begins with the word "remember" because God new we would forget.. Most of Christiandom worships on Sunday... as you said the majority is usually wrong.

" Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. <SUP class=versenum>9 </SUP>Six days you shall labor and do all your work, <SUP class=versenum>10 </SUP>but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. <SUP class=versenum>11 </SUP>For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

No where in the Bible will you find the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. I never knew anything of this until aroud 10-12 years ago...which was the time I God lead me back to church after years of running with the devil most of my life. Praise God for that. My life is a million times better now..and from a worldly perspective.. I had a pretty good life when I wasn't following too. Good job, money, nice car, nice home.. . but it was an empty life for me. Now.. I am so much happier, at peace, and I am truly free, praise the Lord.
 
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Just look at the gospel accounts of the crucifixion.. Christ was crucified on Friday (good Friday)..they waited to prepare his body because then next day was Sabbath (Saturday) and that was something that they would not do on the Sabbath (touching a dead body) ..and he rose on Sunday.

imo that is not accurate that is 2 days. God certainly knows what we call a day.

He was crucified on Passover Wednesday in the tomb before sundown, they went to the tomb after the Sabbath he was gone 3 days. that simple

good Friday by the way is pagan. came from the Nicaean council of 325 A.D or as I call it the mixing. after killing Christians for a few centuries.
 
Madworld. I believe your are mistaken about Christ being Crucified on a Wednesday. I don't believe that the Bible supports that..... Here are several passages that will bear this out... But I encourage you to not just read what I have posted.. Open the Word, read, and confirm it for yourself.

I have provided 6 examples from all four gospels which , when you look at all accounts, show that Christ was crucified on Friday.. and in 3 days rose again (Sunday)...

First: Mathew 27: <SUP class=versenum>62 " </SUP>On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate, <SUP class=versenum>63 </SUP>saying, “Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’ <SUP class=versenum>64 </SUP>Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day..."

They are talking about "preparation day".. "preparation day " is Friday..That is the day you do all your "preparation" for the Sabbath since there are things that are not done during Sabbath... Sabbath begins at sunset on Friday and runs to sunset on Saturday. We know from Genesis that Sabbath was the 7th day. I posted the 4th commandment in a prior post so you can confirm that there.


Second: From a different gospel account.. Luke 23 " <SUP class=versenum>52 </SUP>This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. <SUP class=versenum>53 </SUP>Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. <SUP class=versenum>54 </SUP>That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near."

..This again confirms Christ was killed on preparation day which is Friday, prior to the beginning of Sabbath

THREE ... Luke 23..."<SUP class=versenum>55 </SUP>And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. <SUP class=versenum>56 </SUP>Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment."

continuing in Luke.. :" Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them,<SUP class=footnote data-link='[a]' data-fn="#fen-NKJV-25993a">[a]</SUP> came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. <SUP class=versenum>2 </SUP>But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. <SUP class=versenum>3 </SUP>Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus."

So ressurection day is Sunday.. Killed Friday, Rested in the tomb on Sabbath day, Resurrected on Sunday.

FOUR...OK we are now in the 3rd different Gospel account: Book of Mark 15th chapter " <SUP class=versenum>42 </SUP>Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, <SUP class=versenum>43 </SUP>Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.

Again shows he was killed in the afternoon on preparation day.. if you look earlier in the chapter it talks about him being killed on the 3rd hour

FIVE Continuing in the Gospel of Mark "Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. <SUP class=versenum>2 </SUP>Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. <SUP class=versenum>3 </SUP>And they said among themselves, “Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?”.......Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons

Again confirms Sunday..the day after Sabbath was the day of the resurrection..

SIX.. ok now 4th different gospel account.. Book of John. I hope this clinches it for you

"Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath, the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. <SUP>3..................</SUP>Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. <SUP>2 </SUP>Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.”


So I have provided texts from all 4 gospels which show he was killed on preparation day..which would be Friday; and rose the day after Sabbath.. Sunday the first day of the week.. Ask any Jew or Sabbath keeper they will confirm what preparation day is.. Friday .. I'm sure you can google it and confirm it in a multitude of sources. ... which means he rose on the first day of the week...Sunday.

This also supports what I was saying to Fatkid..the Bible interprets itself.. I did not choose just one text.. but use all 4 gospel stories to confirm what then appears to be a clear pattern... I think the verse in Mark is the most compelling as it declared preparation day as the day before the Sabbath and then confirms he was risen on the first day.

** If for some reason I am mistaken and it's entirely possible..I'm no theologean.. just a layperson tring find his way.. I don't believe my salvation is dependent on the day.. but that he died for my sins and I am saved by faith, in Him and his shed blood and by His grace. Just trying to follow the light I am given...but all 4 gospels seem to say the same thing clearly to me.
 
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I am so far from mistaken.go learn about all Sabbath days.
the one you need (hint) is the high Unleavened Bread Sabbath which falls the day after the Passover in this year is a Thursday.
this is a known fact unless one has preconceived ideas. no way to cram three days and three nights between sunset on Friday and sunrise on Sunday. please...... don't just believe what your told.
 
To add. the Passover week was a very busy time for them. with all the Sabbath days & Passover.
here see this it would take me a week or more to put this together(see below) I'm not of this Church but this is the truth as i know it from studies in the last centruy pre internet for me.
http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/169/Is-high-day-weekly-Sabbath.htm


My confession I'm a terrible speller & typist. pretty good reader. spent years trying to disprove Hebrew/Christian teachings see post #2.
and studying not just the Bible all the other studies just made the whole Bible (81 books) more convincing. we can thank the geniuses... not... of The British and American Bible Society for that.

On a side bar don't you find this count of 66 books........ just a bit contrived ?
imo they missed the right one to remove James. My man Luther did not think he even wrote it. i think he did. more on James ...my reasons if you ask. maybe even if you don't sometime. lol
 
Mad.. I was looking into the "High Sabbath".. and there may be something to that...because that may fall on a different day than the weekly Sabbath..Thanks for the insight.. I'll be looking into that more sometime. I''m not saying I agree or that you are right, but that I'll look into it. .. This really has nothing to do with belieiveing what I am told. I am trying to go by the Bible.I showed you the Bible verses in the above post. I look at the book myself.. ..but as I said..Christians, even Sabbath keeping Christian, don't keep the ceremonial Sabbaths. I understand are seven. So I'm trying to go by the Bible, not on what people tell me. As I said. I'm no theologian.
 
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To add. the Passover week was a very busy time for them. with all the Sabbath days & Passover.
here see this it would take me a week or more to put this together(see below) I'm not of this Church but this is the truth as i know it from studies in the last centruy pre internet for me.
http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/169/Is-high-day-weekly-Sabbath.htm


My confession I'm a terrible speller & typist. pretty good reader. spent years trying to disprove Hebrew/Christian teachings see post #2.
and studying not just the Bible all the other studies just made the whole Bible (81 books) more convincing. we can thank the geniuses... not... of The British and American Bible Society for that.

On a side bar don't you find this count of 66 books........ just a bit contrived ?
imo they missed the right one to remove James. My man Luther did not think he even wrote it. i think he did. more on James ...my reasons if you ask. maybe even if you don't sometime. lol

I know Luther did not like James because he felt it placed emphais on being saved by works..but if you read James he says a whole lot about faith, and that faith should be put into action..not that the actions save you..but if you believe.. your life should be changed with puts you into action...Good works are not required, but a natural outpouring of our love because God loved us first. But I get why he didn't like it. As for the 66 books..I'm good with that. I can connect with God based upon whats there. I'm not out to prove people wrong like you say that you are .. I am seeking to connect with God.
 
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I'm not out to prove people wrong like you say that you are .
EJ
What i am about is the truth. plain and simple truth. that comes from studying and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.



I am seeking to connect with God.
imo the only way to do that is to know as much as i can about the Truth. that said Truth was hidden away for 1500 years due to the actions of the church in Rome. some Truths were hidden by God himself for his own reasons.

now for James

The first church council meeting as recorded in Galatians 2 1-10 (also in Romans 15)
We find a deal took place between James & Paul. James would teach the Jews, Paul everyone else.

Who were/are the Jews ? at that point in time and today only the tribes of Judea,Benjamin & Levites were ever Jews.

The other 9 tribes were described as Israelites or tribes of Israel/Jacob were never Jews. to the Jews they were lost tribes.

Yet in James book he breaks this deal opening with
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.
just another tidbit.

then the case of James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
that is a plain misunderstanding at best of the event.
Genesis 22
And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
note he said
I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
that was a act of Faith saying they both would come back. no works ! Faith

Just to add James stayed in Jerusalem 17 years at least and was unharmed. Paul goes up there in what seems like a small amount of time and is stoned to near death.

Him being martyred is worth speaking of his Faith.
 
and studying not just the Bible all the other studies just made the whole Bible (81 books) more convincing. we can thank the geniuses... not... of The British and American Bible Society for that.
Made a mistake there meant 80 books
my old brain went all Ethiopian Christian Bible that consists of 81 books.
sorry
 
My issue with free will is scientific really.

The Bible tells us (I dont have a passage but, it tells us as I have been taught) that we have free will..

However.. the leading theory as to how OUR was created was the bing bang.. from nothing.. came a huge explosion of matter and time and light.. Newtons laws state every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and matter cannot be created nor destroyed..

Therefore Something had to cause this.. an infinite mass on a higher plane or other dimension that we cannot perceive or understand.. Infinite is interesting.. as far as word choice is concerned because god is always referenced to be infinite.. therefore infiniti=god

How does this tie into free will?

Well if it all started with explosions, and a chain reaction.. its like a pool table.. God racks em up.. sets the que ball and BAM! God hit that que ball in a very specific place at a very specific angle with a very specific amount of force in a very specific direction...

Everything that happens afterwards, it a result of that strike, that initial action.. or EXPLOSION..

there is a destiny so to speak.. the actions those balls take on the table.. are all based on everything that came before it.. every bounce.. every collision.. every final destination..

What is a human decision? Physically what is the act of choosing?

It is a series of electrical impulses firing in the brain.. it is chemistry which is an exponentially detailed reaction stemming from the big bang.. the atoms that make us up are constantly bounding.. colliding and moving in a way that makes what we call existence!

If god were to rack the balls up the same way... strike them the same way.. with everything the exact same as before.. the result would be the exact same on the pool table..

Therefore.. Free Will CANNOT exist.. it isnt PHYSICALLY possible.. our choices are predestined by our chemistry, and the chemistry of all environmental factors around us.. EVERYTHING is one giant pool table... with balls that almost amount to infiniti.. boucing off each other.. yet they all have a path.. a path based on what came before them.. and NOTHING can change that path..

Nothing but the hand of God himself..

Therefore.. scientifically speaking God exists... most certainly... free will however.. cannot.. it is an illusion.. and illusion meant to give you some sort of semblance that you have control

Appreciate this post, PGL... most definitely. It is so important for us ALL to think through these greater things pertaining to LIFE, and our accuser has used myriad ways to keep us from taking our time to go there. It is so important.

There are some great minds, such as that of Ben Franklin and of Thomas Jefferson, that dared to reason a God that set things in motion, then took a big siesta.

One question I'll submit to think through:

Can LOVE and Free Will exist apart from one another?

also,
do you have a God that personifies Love?
If not...
how are we capable of the beauty we behold/are capable of?
 
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PGL.... life and this existence from creation isn't just the "break" that begins billiards... our decisions are the continued shots in the game, causing collisions--some planned & intended, some unforeseen or even unintended. (To go ahead with your analogy)

But what's crazy is, nothing ever stops--everything keeps moving, we don't always take turns with shots. It's really crazy.

One of the most important things is to keep playin':
If you scratch, shoot again...
If you pocket the 8-ball, rack a new set & split 'em...
keep on learnin' & rest. Rest is Good for thought & promotion ;)
 
I see what your saying.. I understand your point of view

But I still fail to see how we can truely "take/choose shots"

Because running with the same analogy.. the "spot" we are taking our "shot" from is per-determined by everything that played out before it, and our "skill" at taking such "shot" is predetermined by whatever comes before it int he chain.

I went to Benedictine High School, taught by Monks... VERY progressive monks actually. I hate it when people have such mis-conceptions of the Catholic Church (for some reason everyone think we are the bible thumping condemners).

It was one of our very own Theology teachers that flat out admitted and proclaimed that the Bible has 2 truths. Religious truth, and Historical truth. Many things in the bible arent meant to be taken literally, they are allegories.

Many people would be offended by that, but they shouldnt..

Just because something is an allegory, doesnt make the truth it represents any less.. TRUE
 
I remembered this the other week lol

All we know in this life is like a parade to God he has a 50 yard seat can see the beginning and the end that part is predetermined to the most part. we are there in the parade we can do whatever dance we choose within that. that is our free choice.

And that's where i deffer with the Catholic Church.
I would ask what part is a allegory ? never found one. parts are limited by the then knowledge of the person who is seeing the prophecy for example... 2500 years ago a person seeing a large steam ship on a ocean or a Satellite in the sky, may describe something we would not understand today as they did not fully understand what they were seeing. there we have the advantage by looking back at word usage of their days.

imo what they told you is nothing more than lack of understanding on their part or just some standard lingo there are taught to tell people. you must remember for centuries the Catholic Church members were mostly illiterate and treated as such. but those days are long gone now.
 
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And that's where i deffer with the Catholic Church.
I would ask what part is a allegory ? never found one. parts are limited by the then knowledge of the person who is seeing the prophecy for example... 2500 years ago a person seeing a large steam ship on a ocean or a Satellite in the sky, may describe something we would not understand today as they did not fully understand what they were seeing. there we have the advantage by looking back at word usage of their days.

If im not mistaken that exactly what an allegory is..

7 days could mean 700 billion years in gods eyes.. biblical vs historical truth
 
If im not mistaken that exactly what an allegory is..

7 days could mean 700 billion years in gods eyes.. biblical vs historical truth

English is a troubling language.

allegory, a symbolic fictional narrative that conveys a meaning not explicitly set forth in the narrative. Allegory, which encompasses such forms as fable, parable, and apologue, may have meaning on two or more levels that the reader can understand only through an interpretive process
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/16078/allegory

fictional
written stories about people and events that are not real : literature that tells stories which are imagined by the writer
something that is not true
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fiction

See now why i did not like the word ?
 
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