Manti Te'o - Future Browns Hall of Famer
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Yes.
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I 3rd that shit.
Be interesting to see who would win (Assuming we'd be playing the Terminator outside) the other spot across from D'Qwell between Craig and JMJ.
The offense is coming along nicely so the pick has to go defense. I like that this gives us the chance to move Billy Winn over to RDE and see how he goes in the offseason working with Joe Thomas (Which is something Jabaal said was a blessing for him in his rookie year). Billy is a DE, and he's playing too good to be a backup DT. Use him or lose him.
The Browns will be watching Werner, Te'o & Mingo closely if this awful run D cannot do something.
Be interesting to see who would win (Assuming we'd be playing the Terminator outside) the other spot across from D'Qwell between Craig and JMJ.
The offense is coming along nicely so the pick has to go defense. I like that this gives us the chance to move Billy Winn over to RDE and see how he goes in the offseason working with Joe Thomas (Which is something Jabaal said was a blessing for him in his rookie year). Billy is a DE, and he's playing too good to be a backup DT. Use him or lose him.
The Browns will be watching Werner, Te'o & Mingo closely if this awful run D cannot do something.
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Oh, and on our rule of drafting outstanding young men who are just as valuable in the locker room as they are on the pitch..
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_P1rcOAwEA[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_P1rcOAwEA[/ame]
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Nice vid, BDU. Thanks for posting.
I did some quick research and over the last five years, ILB is one of the safest top 10 picks you can find. LOTS of DE/DT busts up there. Many more Willis and Keuchly types. Te'o is next, almost certainly.
I love this kid for how he's handled himself this year and for his play on the field, and I'm obviously a Domer Homer who is totally biased, but how can you not draft a football player and PERSON like this? Seems like a grand slam pick to me for a team desperately in need of playmakers. (And we could use some REAL LBs, right, Solon?
Which, of course, means he's going to go to the Ravens or Steelers. #pleaseGodforbid
I did some quick research and over the last five years, ILB is one of the safest top 10 picks you can find. LOTS of DE/DT busts up there. Many more Willis and Keuchly types. Te'o is next, almost certainly.
I love this kid for how he's handled himself this year and for his play on the field, and I'm obviously a Domer Homer who is totally biased, but how can you not draft a football player and PERSON like this? Seems like a grand slam pick to me for a team desperately in need of playmakers. (And we could use some REAL LBs, right, Solon?
Which, of course, means he's going to go to the Ravens or Steelers. #pleaseGodforbid
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Are you thinking he doesn't deserve a top 3 pick or?
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Let's explore
I hear what you are saying and I understand why pass rushing is a premium at the top of the draft.
However, every year -- every single year -- one or two of the "premium" pass rushers, OLB or DE, bust. The ILB or MLB rarely flop that high.
So isn't there something to be said for drafting the player LESS likely to flop? The guy who could be your team leader for 10-15 years?
This is where the accepted draft logic fails me. Isn't the point to get the BEST player, who will play the LONGEST? If so, why not take the safest pick?
Te'o seems like not only a safe pick, but a long-term prospect with huge upside. He seems like a Ray Lewis type of impact player. I'm simply not clear on why some long, lanky OLB always gets preference, despite the higher risk.
Alo, when you get a chance in your "free" time, explore this comment with me, if you will.
I hear what you are saying and I understand why pass rushing is a premium at the top of the draft.
However, every year -- every single year -- one or two of the "premium" pass rushers, OLB or DE, bust. The ILB or MLB rarely flop that high.
So isn't there something to be said for drafting the player LESS likely to flop? The guy who could be your team leader for 10-15 years?
This is where the accepted draft logic fails me. Isn't the point to get the BEST player, who will play the LONGEST? If so, why not take the safest pick?
Te'o seems like not only a safe pick, but a long-term prospect with huge upside. He seems like a Ray Lewis type of impact player. I'm simply not clear on why some long, lanky OLB always gets preference, despite the higher risk.
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Thank you SO much for not making me take the heat! I was gonna say, "If he can give us 12 sacks as a rookie, I'm in."
Plus... isn't he a middle linebacker? DQJ is NOT our problem. Frankly, DQJ, Robertson, and Gocong/JMJ wouldn't be a problem in a 4-3. Get Taylor and Rubin back and draft an elite pass rusher, you've got something going with the front 7.
I'll bet two of my three balls that we don't draft a 4-3 linebacker in the first two rounds.
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Another note: Between both CBS guys and Walter, all three have the Browns going pass rusher at #2. Two have us going Jarvis Jones (plays SSLB, rushes passer on 3rd down), other has us going Sam Montgomery. I've also seen Werner and Mingo.
Honestly haven't seen a non pass rusher in weeks.
Honestly haven't seen a non pass rusher in weeks.
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Just to add to what Dama has said here, those guys busting are better prospects than we have in this weaker DE class. Mingo is the best DE in this class and he cannot stop the run AND has another first round DE opposite him to terrorize college lines. Werner is a very good player, but he's not that elite guy we want and isn't BPA with a top 4 pick so he is probably the guy you want if you wish to trade back, however, I'm not entirely sure there is anyone in this class worth trading up for from top 8 or less. Then there is Jarvis Jones, the 3-4 linebacker that Shep wants to play 4-3 RDE.
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I don't think the recent track record for the top ILBs & non-pass rushing OLBs has been very strong. In fact, it's been pretty awful.
Let's look at some recent dudes:
- Rolando McClain, 8th overall, '10 -- He's been so underwhelming in Oakland that the coaches decided to reduce his role: in the last two weeks, he's played 18/56 and 33/65 snaps.
- Aaron Curry, 4th overall, '09 -- To my eternal shame, he turned out to be mediocre at best. The other popular LB that year, Mr. Maualuga, turned out to be awful too (currently Pro Football Focus's lowest-rated ILB).
- Keith Rivers, 9th overall, '08 -- Injuries played a big role, but he never lived up to expectations in Cincinnati. Traded away for a 5th round pick.
- Patrick Willis, 11th overall, '07 -- Absolute stud. But some believe the guy playing next to him, NaVorro Bowman, is even better. Where'd he get drafted? 91st pick in 2010.
- AJ Hawk, 5th overall, '06 -- He's never been more than an above average player. And the other linebacker picked in the top ten that year, Ernie Sims, turned out to be one of Millen's worst picks.
To be clear, I don't think Te'o will be bust -- he should be a very, very good pro. But is he an absolute freak like Willis or an impact cover guy, like Kuechly is supposed to be? That's very much in doubt.- Aaron Curry, 4th overall, '09 -- To my eternal shame, he turned out to be mediocre at best. The other popular LB that year, Mr. Maualuga, turned out to be awful too (currently Pro Football Focus's lowest-rated ILB).
- Keith Rivers, 9th overall, '08 -- Injuries played a big role, but he never lived up to expectations in Cincinnati. Traded away for a 5th round pick.
- Patrick Willis, 11th overall, '07 -- Absolute stud. But some believe the guy playing next to him, NaVorro Bowman, is even better. Where'd he get drafted? 91st pick in 2010.
- AJ Hawk, 5th overall, '06 -- He's never been more than an above average player. And the other linebacker picked in the top ten that year, Ernie Sims, turned out to be one of Millen's worst picks.
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Not overlooking anyone -- I meant popular among the group of guys here. There were a lot of Curry vs Maualuga debates back at the other board: in hindsight, we were fortunate that neither ended up being our pick at #5.
A pass rusher like Clay Matthews or Brian Orakpo would've been wicked awesome. And while Laurinaitis wouldn't have been an ideal fit for Mangini's scheme, he's a good example of how you can get a very good 'backer in the 2nd round: that's another pattern worth looking at.
A pass rusher like Clay Matthews or Brian Orakpo would've been wicked awesome. And while Laurinaitis wouldn't have been an ideal fit for Mangini's scheme, he's a good example of how you can get a very good 'backer in the 2nd round: that's another pattern worth looking at.
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Agreed on the possibility of great talent in the second. I, deep down, had fingers crossed on Lavonte David this year. I think the Buccs got a steal for the future in him.
That said though, a talent like Te'o on a team who is incapable of stopping the run might just be too hard to pass. If his pass rushing really is such an issue, and while I don't have access to full college games I've far from thought he's useless, starting him inside and moving D'Qwell out wide more than solves that. Gocong, JMJ and Craig can push for the other spot which may very well push one to greater heights.
I don't understand the distaste in our pass rushing, to be honest. I think it's been solid for a 4-3 missing our biggest D-line asset and the only shutdown corner this team has. It's the constant 100-200 yards rushing on us that I see as the major issue.
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If you liked Lavonte David, you'll be very fond of Arthur Brown.
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Darn you and your "logic" and "reason", Alo.
As to your list, I factored all these guys in and I'd argue, other than McClain, only McClain is a true bust in the sense of not being even a starter. The rest are playing and contributing, some to a higher degree (Hawk) than others (correct me if I'm wrong).
I'd further argue that the floor for ILBs is much higher than the floor for OLB/DE pass rushers. I could put a list together but I suspect you could do a better job.
Finally, in regards to Te'o, the question will be not if he's a physical freak -- he's not -- but do his intangibles offset any physical limitations? I'd argue they do, and not just because of his personal story, but because of his character and football leadership.
I get that Te'o is a non-traditional top-5 pick. But if I had to bet on any first-rounder who could END UP being WORTH that pick when his career is over, I'd likely pick Te'o.
So how much of a stretch would it be, really, to pick him that high?
Thanks, Alo. Great perspective, as always. Thanks for falling on your sword on Curry but I was with you on that one, so you weren't alone, that's for sure.
As to your list, I factored all these guys in and I'd argue, other than McClain, only McClain is a true bust in the sense of not being even a starter. The rest are playing and contributing, some to a higher degree (Hawk) than others (correct me if I'm wrong).
I'd further argue that the floor for ILBs is much higher than the floor for OLB/DE pass rushers. I could put a list together but I suspect you could do a better job.
Finally, in regards to Te'o, the question will be not if he's a physical freak -- he's not -- but do his intangibles offset any physical limitations? I'd argue they do, and not just because of his personal story, but because of his character and football leadership.
I get that Te'o is a non-traditional top-5 pick. But if I had to bet on any first-rounder who could END UP being WORTH that pick when his career is over, I'd likely pick Te'o.
So how much of a stretch would it be, really, to pick him that high?
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