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Obj 2020

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Obj 2020

brownsdownunder

Fuck Cancer! R.I.P Sean Webb
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I think I'm an outlier here that wouldn't be sad to see him go. I don't dislike him, I just don't think he fits.

Which is fair enough, but the problem is value.

My mum has a fuck ugly bird vase that's worth around $5,000. It's fuck ugly. No idea why she bought it but I don't understand much of any decision making that anyone made in the 70s. I wouldn't even put it in my shed and use it as an ashtray. If I saw it at a garage sale for $1, I wouldn't buy it. But when she kicks the bucket, you can bet I'm not parting with it for $1 just because I think it's shit.

Losing Odell isn't the end of the world, but that doesn't mean we should give him away free. We gotta get our value.
 
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Shep

Shep

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I don't think he's gonna be okay with this offense anymore than Diggs was, doesn't seem to feed the #1 obsessively. But maybe I'm wrong.

My gut says we'll move on from him, try to get one of the two WRs on a rookie deal. If the Browns got a 1st for him (along with Anthony Harris), I'd be good. We'd take a WR with that, get a top 15 value based on the depth.
 

DawgFan

In NFL HELL since 1964
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Well, according to Charles Robinson, that entire trade thing is 'unequivocally' untrue...that the Browns and Vikings didn't even have any calls...and that the Browns do not have him on the trading block.
 

DawgFan

In NFL HELL since 1964
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Because nobody can wrap their head around CLEVELAND not being a shithole that no superstar would ever want to be associated with. I mean, before he got here OBJ even said he thought they were punishing him.
 

Tangelo930

Die-hard Browns Fan
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Sports journalism has gotten so bad. You have guys literally making up stories with zero truth or evidence behind them. Then there are guys like Cowherd who only report inflammatory things to get a reaction from people for ratings. There are clips of him contradicting himself weeks apart. Recently I saw he said that the Packers should absolutely draft a QB with their first pick in the draft and then like 3 weeks later went on the air and said there is no way they should draft a QB. What even qualifies as sports journalism anymore? So annoying that we have to deal with OBJ twitter rumors every few weeks.
 

Greythan

Yin & Yang
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This narrative that he won't fit just rings scary and hopefully false as it has nothing to do with OBJ and everything to do with our new HC.

The Patriots had never seen a receiver even close to Moss when he signed. Brady had been, and became again, a more surgical short/intermediate QB. But guess what? Good coaches and good players adjust to the roster's strengths and weaknesses. If Stefanski's system, which is 2 years old by definition since he's been an OC for that long, can't adjust to take advantage of OBJ's talent then we'll be looking for a new HC in a year, two tops.

Can we stop with this system nonsense? Good (read: winning) coaches don't have rigid systems; they optimize to their 53.
 

Tangelo930

Die-hard Browns Fan
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[FONT=&quot]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">DePo on OBJ: "We’re really build around a core of players that we think have a chance to be a championship-caliber core and the idea that we would take away from that core at this moment just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense and really not something we’re exploring at all." <a href="https://t.co/IH7NKRZ35k">pic.twitter.com/IH7NKRZ35k</a></p>— Jake Trotter (@Jake_Trotter) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jake_Trotter/status/1250856543324700681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 16, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/FONT]
 
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Shep

Shep

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Trading him now seems wrongminded, value's low. I do think the system situation is legit. It's a run-heavy "balanced" offense so we'll throw less, and it seems to spread the ball around a lot. I don't really know OBJ, just shit I read, but I could see him just not being okay with it.

But the more pragmatic element is paying 32m to two starting WRs, which isn't very Analytics-ish. I feel like they'd like to get one of the two on a rookie deal. When we're drafting lower, getting that guy at 28 makes sense.

But it's not a problem for 2020.
 

brownsdownunder

Fuck Cancer! R.I.P Sean Webb
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Trading him now seems wrongminded, value's low. I do think the system situation is legit. It's a run-heavy "balanced" offense so we'll throw less, and it seems to spread the ball around a lot. I don't really know OBJ, just shit I read, but I could see him just not being okay with it.

Did you see the production of Diggs and Thielen? I'm thinking Odell is going to be fine with the numbers.
 

Lou Groza

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Yeah- didnt Thielen & Diggs go gangbusters in 2018.... then numbers dropped in 2019 with injury.

I bet with DIGGS in MIN:
He felt he should be #1 WR.
When Thielen came along, then Diggs felt slighted.

If so, in CLE we shouldn’t have that problem. Landry knows he is OBJ’s #2 and he’s fine with it.

Diggs probably felt MIN was going to hold him back a little if he had to contend with the usage Thielen’s ability demanded.

Maybe we get a slot like Duvernay, kicking Juice out wide. I like Duvernay a lot and he’ll be able to play outside too eventually- I am pretty sure.
But better bet is an athletic big body, 6-3 or better. FOR BAKER, and also that adds something different to the team and sets CLE up for the day they dont have the LSU Bros Tango Tandem at WR.

Baker will likely be LETHAL with a big shit-hit-the-fan, bailout, move the sticks target. At Oklahoma, Baker hit big Mark Andrews over & over again, downfield brilliantly.
 

DawgFan

In NFL HELL since 1964
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The problem in Minnie was that the QB had wide open shots to his WR's in 2019...and didn't pull the trigger. Too tentative. After Diggs/Thielen complained, he started pushing the ball more and Thielen got hurt, so Diggs got his numbers, but he was never a huge part of the offense because the QB checked down too much.

OBJ will not have that problem here with Baker. He took a beating and had a bad INT rate because he is NOT a check-down Charlie.

OBJ will get his.
 

Greythan

Yin & Yang
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The problem in Minnie was that the QB had wide open shots to his WR's in 2019...and didn't pull the trigger. Too tentative. After Diggs/Thielen complained, he started pushing the ball more and Thielen got hurt, so Diggs got his numbers, but he was never a huge part of the offense because the QB checked down too much.

OBJ will not have that problem here with Baker. He took a beating and had a bad INT rate because he is NOT a check-down Charlie.

OBJ will get his.

Good post and I agree. That said, and more for Shep, if OBJ DOESN'T get his the reason better not be the system. That would tell me its a shitty system. Any system that doesn't find a way to capitalize on having a top 10 (top 5?) receiver is just not a system we should hope to employ.

Its really that simple and consistent with what DePo had to say on the matter (Tangelo's post a few prior to this).
 
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Shep

Shep

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I do not think the Vikings offense can be called shitty now (!!!) because Diggs wanted out for too few looks. They were outstanding on offense, accomplished several firsts in the passing game, but if was more about efficiency than tonnage.

Diggs arguably had the best season of his career in a ton of ways but it was on way fewer looks. He wants to ball. Period. It's a very common feeling among star WRs.

I won't be remotely stunned if OBJ feels that way. But I'd love to be wrong. But it remains true: If you get it right at QB, filling a WR room shouldn't cost a mint.

We'll see. Again, I don't think it's an issue for 2020. It would be a discussion in the next offseason.
 

Greythan

Yin & Yang
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I do not think the Vikings offense can be called shitty
Agreed and I never stated anything about the Vikings offense.

A "system" is shitty if it is so rigid as to not be able to capitalize on a top 5/10 receiver on its roster.

Its Stefanski's job to adapt to his player's strengths; not the other way around.
 
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Shep

Shep

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The system, passed down from Shanahan, is really not in question, Grey. It's passed all the tests already. Not feeding a ton of looks to a #1 isn't bad business if you ask an awful lot of offensive coaches.

And WRs aren't the keys to the kingdom, QB is. As DePo put it, everything we're doing is QB-centric, which almost certainly includes keeping OBJ for 2020. And should.

But I won't be at all surprised if the two sides see upside to moving on.
 

Greythan

Yin & Yang
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The system, passed down from Shanahan, is really not in question, Grey. It's passed all the tests already.
Couldn't disagree more Shep and we've all watched enough football to know how dangerous this type of thinking is.

There is no infallible system; no silver bullet. The game evolves and true "systems" only exist for a handful of seasons before the have to, wait for it, evolve or die.

Again, I think of what New England did when Moss arrived in '07. That wasn't a system, that was some pretty innovative coaching taking advantage of its personnel.

I'm arguing the extreme here for discussion purposes and I certainly don't believe Stefanski is a HOF coach just yet, but I stand by the underlying point that if a "system" can't find a way to take advantage of OBJ's ability its, again, a shitty system.
 
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