The Josh Gordon Epic Continues

[AttackOffense]

This is best group weve had since early 90s. Especially if you consider Cameron probowl TE in the group. We have to find way keep Austin healthy not overuse him, and dont overwork him in practice. Hes good, he dont need a shit ton of reps as long as he can go on Sundays thats all I care about. Keep his snap counts on lower ends. Bring him in on passing situations and in 4th quarters if we are behind. We need use Benjamin on end arounds and screens, hawkins too. Gordon will be back bye bye week if he is even suspended. Tiredmhearing about that. Our oline be better and no more 7 step drops with slow qbs and slo2 developing norv turner plays. Weeden and Campbell cant make decisions quick enough. Bess and Little are gone. They were both in top 5 in drops per attempt. We can sign Holmes to 2 year deal, but we have Johnson and Krause/snead. Snead has dropped few balls in ota so I rather he not make team. I dont wanna have guys dropping balls on 3rd down killing drives. We could make a trade we have ammunition if right opportunity presenrs itself. Moore for 6th or 5th id be ok with as last resort, but id rather get Andre johnson or Jimmy Graham. Not giving 2 1sts for Jimmy but Cameron will want high money and we have to resign him. we have best rb depth and talent since before we moved to Baltimore. But one realllll difference is our qb we have and Kyle Shanahan. I hope Shanahan never leaves. He is one of if not best OC in this league. His offense is fit for todays league not what it was 10 years ago. Pettine defense is going be amazing. He says this group is better than Buffalos. He just raves about it. The positive changes we have made since last season anything short of playoffs is major disappointment. We are going to run the ball and playaction cant cover gordon cameron and still cover hawkins austin burelson benjamin johnson. I can see dion lewis catching balls out of backfield. Hopefully West is good as advertised and can catch balls on screens too. Manziel if he comes in will completely open everything up. Hoyer offense will be steady and effiecient, Manziel can do it on his own and defenders will leave their assignments to get Johnny and leave deep balls open that he can throwmon run 50 yard bombs no problem. Kid has a cannon.Quit bitching and see that we have upgraded. Anthony Armstrong has looked good. If he doing it against our secondary I know he will against steelers and ravens. Our schedule is top 5 easiest in league. Its a cake walk for most part.

I continue to say and believe Johnny Party Animal has the ability to be a pretty good NFL QB. But he is not perfect and has his weaknesses. But to be good in the NFL you need to work at it.

I still do not believe he gets it about how hard the NFL will be. When you have weaknesses and you are in a desperate battle for the starting QB job of the Cleveland Browns against a highly motivated Brian Hoyer you better get your ass in gear and focus on football instead of your weekend fun.

 

[KJP]

Didn't more than few Browns fans say that last summer about Bess and Little?

And how many people on this board told us they were high on Earl Bennett who has already been released.

Yep, it's Realist vs. Fantasizer time. Break out the beer! Believe me, I hope the fantasizers are right and I'm wrong! I'm tired of losing Browns teams!

Back in 1972, there was a Steelers fan who went by the name AttackOffense, too. But instead of an Internet forum, he had the local bar. There he sat, night after night for 40 years, complaining about the Steelers that had never won a playoff game. Meanwhile, just up the road were the upstart Browns who, in their very first year in the NFL, won the league championship. And then they won it again. And they won it again. And they won it again. Four times those Browns won the championship and the Steelers couldn't win a single playoff game. Only in Pittsburgh....

The Steelers would never win, he said, because they had never won before. The past is prologue, he reasoned. So it didn't matter that they brought in a coach from Cleveland several years earlier who had learned the game under the master, Paul Brown. Nor did it matter to him that they drafted this hick quarterback. Then a top-rated running back had to serve in Vietnam and got his legs wounded and might never walk again. That's the Steelers for ya, he said. Nothing good ever happens to the Steelers. He cried into his shot and a beer.

So if we act like Pittsburgh's AttackOffense fan from 1972, and we only looked back to define the future, we might never notice what is changing around us to cause a turnaround in fortunes. Nor would we be able to appreciate it as it's happening. Turnarounds happen all the time, even to a Steelers team whose four decades of futility made the Browns' most recent missteps looks like a happy dance.

Are the Browns about to embark into a decade-long dynasty and win multiple championships like the Steelers did? Who knows? Neither you or I can't say for sure. And that's what's so wonderful about the future. It's a blank slate with all the possibilities, imperfections and pitfalls that go with it. You get to see it being written in the present and understood in the past. So as the future is being written, it makes for a great show right here, right now. And it's a lovely ride because you never know what crazy turns it can and will take. Enjoy!

 

[KJP]

5 Reasons The Browns Will Be Okay With Josh Gordon Suspended
http://dawgpoundnation.com/2014/06/25/5-reasons-browns-will-okay-josh-gordon-suspended/

 

[MalcolmBrown]

I think people tend to forget Washington, when they went to the playoffs a couple years back, had a 1300+ yard receiver in 6' 0" Pierre Garcon.

Would any of you consider him to be a "true" #1 receiver?

Who was the OC?

If the shoe fits, you might be looking at Cinderella.

 

[KJP]

I think people tend to forget Washington, when they went to the playoffs a couple years back, had a 1300+ yard receiver in 6' 0" Pierre Garcon.

Farmer was referring to a Super Bowl winning team. There's been a decent number of playoff teams with mega receivers.

 

[AttackOffense]

Back in 1972, there was a Steelers fan who went by the name AttackOffense, too. But instead of an Internet forum, he had the local bar. There he sat, night after night for 40 years, complaining about the Steelers that had never won a playoff game. Meanwhile, just up the road were the upstart Browns who, in their very first year in the NFL, won the league championship. And then they won it again. And they won it again. And they won it again. Four times those Browns won the championship and the Steelers couldn't win a single playoff game. Only in Pittsburgh....

The Steelers would never win, he said, because they had never won before. The past is prologue, he reasoned. So it didn't matter that they brought in a coach from Cleveland several years earlier who had learned the game under the master, Paul Brown. Nor did it matter to him that they drafted this hick quarterback. Then a top-rated running back had to serve in Vietnam and got his legs wounded and might never walk again. That's the Steelers for ya, he said. Nothing good ever happens to the Steelers. He cried into his shot and a beer.

So if we act like Pittsburgh's AttackOffense fan from 1972, and we only looked back to define the future, we might never notice what is changing around us to cause a turnaround in fortunes. Nor would we be able to appreciate it as it's happening. Turnarounds happen all the time, even to a Steelers team whose four decades of futility made the Browns' most recent missteps looks like a happy dance.

Are the Browns about to embark into a decade-long dynasty and win multiple championships like the Steelers did? Who knows? Neither you or I can't say for sure. And that's what's so wonderful about the future. It's a blank slate with all the possibilities, imperfections and pitfalls that go with it. You get to see it being written in the present and understood in the past. So as the future is being written, it makes for a great show right here, right now. And it's a lovely ride because you never know what crazy turns it can and will take. Enjoy!

Well written post. But the past has nothing to do with my evaluation of the 2014 Browns.

You cite the 1970s. The Steelers, on their rise to glory, were smart enough to draft quality receivers like Stallworth and Swann. And that was in a run oriented NFL.

Today the league is much more quick-strike, pass oriented than in the 1970s and the Browns act like it is 1970 and the Larry Csonka era putting all their eggs in the running basket and almost nothing in the passing basket. This year's draft was maybe the best in NFL history for wide receivers and the Browns passed on it -- a mistake of colassal proportions in my estimation.

The Browns, without Gordon and counting on a bunch of aged injury-prone receivers and several no name, untested kids, have in my opinion one of the worst passing attacks in the NFL headng in to the 2014 season. This glaring weakness will bring down the whole season for Cleveland. And that's a shame, becasue the squad has solid talent in many positions

The majority of observers of football around the country agree with me. Pat McManamon who covers the Browns for ESPN wote about our pitiful Gordon-less receiving situation yesterday and noted, like I have, that teams will just jam up the line of scrimmage and dare the Browns rag-tag receiving corps to beat them. It looks glum at this point unless a miracle happens and somebody emerges or some major trade occurs.

 

[MalcolmBrown]

Farmer was referring to a Super Bowl winning team. There's been a decent number of playoff teams with mega receivers.

I wasn't referring to anything Farmer said, I was just noting that not having a big play receiver is not necessarily to the detriment of our team and its success.

 

[AttackOffense]

I think people tend to forget Washington, when they went to the playoffs a couple years back, had a 1300+ yard receiver in 6' 0" Pierre Garcon.

Would any of you consider him to be a "true" #1 receiver?

Who was the OC?

If the shoe fits, you might be looking at Cinderella.

The irony for me, Malcolm, is we keep hearing in Cleveland that having good receivers isn't important yet in our offensive coordinator's offense last season in Washington, Garcon was the leading receiver in the entire NFL in number of receptions!

I wonder what Shanahan really thinks, having no one anywhere near Garcon's ability in his Browns receiving corps for 2014. Good luck with that!

A lot of people on this board live in a make believe world. Even as Mary Kay Cabot writes that Gordon is on the brink of being banned from the NFL for at least a year, we have people on this board still writing that he may get off or only get a few games suspension because they hear rumors that this is all about Gordon missing a drug test because he was in Europe. Pur baloney in my estimation, a story likely circulated by his agent who, by the way, usually is out loudly spouting forth all kinds of things in favor of his client and has been remarkably quiet on the Gordon situation. That's a sign of bad news coming in itself.

 

[AttackOffense]

5 Reasons The Browns Will Be Okay With Josh Gordon Suspended
http://dawgpoundnation.com/2014/06/25/5-reasons-browns-will-okay-josh-gordon-suspended/

Nobody says you need all pro receivrs. But you do need GOOD receivers -- and more than one of them-- who are close to their prime. Two of the Seahawks receivers, for example, were courted by other teams and one of them, Tate, is replacing a china-doll guy named Burleson, who Detroit dumped and Cleveland picked up and is counting on to be one of the top receivers this year! Good luck with that!

And the champion Seahawks, recogizining that good receivers are important, drafted two of them last month!

If the Hawks and 49ers are a model for Pettine, why didn't they foillow Seattle's and San Fran's example and draft one or two receivers?

 

[KJP]

Garcon didn't help Washington win. But to be fair, they had a good rushing offense -- yet a porous defense.

And I think the Browns do have some good receivers, albeit with injury histories. Burleson is being counted on to be a mentor who can also produce. He's not being counted on to be a top receiver. If he was, the Browns would have given him more than a 1-year contract.

As has been said repeatedly, they stuck to their draft board and drafted the best available player of need. At the time they were picking, they had a non-WR player rated more highly than a WR.

And had Buffalo not made the offer they did, the Browns would have selected Watkins at #4. But that's over and done with. It's been chiseled into the stone of history and can't be unwritten (or at least partially, depending on who we draft next year with the pick from Buffalo). Since we can't change the past, what do you think the Browns should do next?

 

[PlaygroundLegend]

Nobody says you need all pro receivrs. But you do need GOOD receivers -- and more than one of them-- who are close to their prime. Two of the Seahawks receivers, for example, were courted by other teams and one of them, Tate, is replacing a china-doll guy named Burleson, who Detroit dumped and Cleveland picked up and is counting on to be one of the top receivers this year! Good luck with that!

And the champion Seahawks, recogizining that good receivers are important, drafted two of them last month!

If the Hawks and 49ers are a model for Pettine, why didn't they foillow Seattle's and San Fran's example and draft one or two receivers?

AO

I understand you think WR is a weakness.. but (and just for the sake of debate) why?

They way I view it..

We have a Pro Bowl Pass Catching Tight End
A potential TOP NOTCH Slot Guy in Hawkins
Then Miles Austin, who at one point was once a #1WR in the NFL and who could resume that level of play at any time as long as he stays healthy (he hasnt had any damaging injuries, just pulled muscles).


Austin is capable of 1200 yds and 9 TDS as he's done it twice before.


Im looking at the best case scenario, and believing that is what will happen

 

[brownsdownunder]

We have a Pro Bowl Pass Catching Tight End
A potential TOP NOTCH Slot Guy in Hawkins
Then Miles Austin, who at one point was once a #1WR in the NFL and who could resume that level of play at any time as long as he stays healthy (he hasnt had any damaging injuries, just pulled muscles).

Cameron, fuck yeah, he's elite. But the rest?

Gotta love Hawkins. He's come from averaging 28 yards per game, 4 touchdowns in 35 games and never playing a full season healthy to being called top notch when he arrives here. Let's remember, Cinci didn't really want to re-sign him. He's talented but durability and past production HAVE to be a concern before he's anointed top notch .

Miles Austin was phased out in Dallas because he cannot stay healthy and hasn't been the same player for some years due to it. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Browns still are holding him back in the hopes it manages to stay healthy.

Charles Johnson is being touted as a breakout guy but he is coming off an ACL, has zero career catches and was a 7th round pick. I also hate seeing him lifted to Gordon potential - he's 6'2 and 215 which is NOT Josh and is frankly pretty average. He has potential but he's far from a sure thing. I certainly was not blown away by his college play.

The UDFA crew we have seems talent but they are all smaller guys who went undrafted for a reason. They're talented, and I believe they're the reason Earl Bennett was expendable but I'm far from ready to expect them to carry the load. Besides, none of them stand above 5'11.

Burleson - I don't even want to get started on him all over again. I'm tired of being bashed around here for pointing out he isn't the fucking second coming of Jesus.

I know you're already eying Jaelen Strong so you can't say you're satisfied with a receiving corps when you've already supported upgrading next year. There is really no denying the Browns need to upgrade the position sooner rather than later. I'm inclined to agree with AO, though not quite as chicken little, that our current standing at the position is so far from ideal it isn't even in sight. No amount of 'potential' or 'if he can stay healthy' lines can change that.

 

[AttackOffense]

AO

I understand you think WR is a weakness.. but (and just for the sake of debate) why?

They way I view it..

We have a Pro Bowl Pass Catching Tight End
A potential TOP NOTCH Slot Guy in Hawkins
Then Miles Austin, who at one point was once a #1WR in the NFL and who could resume that level of play at any time as long as he stays healthy (he hasnt had any damaging injuries, just pulled muscles).


Austin is capable of 1200 yds and 9 TDS as he's done it twice before.


Im looking at the best case scenario, and believing that is what will happen

Appreciate your view and always enjoy your posts but I think medicore play at WR is going to kill what could have been a promising season for the Browns. We still have time to add receivers? Yes, but a receiver new to a team requires time to build a rapport with the QB so you begin the season, game 1, in a smooth and efficient fashion. Time is running out to add that additional receiver!

Ken is a very good poster but his whole argument about not needing good recievers is based on the Seattle Seahawks. In fact, the hawks had good receivers last year.

But beyond that, look at the prior 9 super Boelw winners before the Hawks. ALL of those teams -- Green Bay, Pttisburgh, Baltimore, New York, New Orleans, Indianapolis, New England -- had fine wide receivers. The one excpetion might have been Balt., which had a terrific receiver in Bolton, and some average ones behind him.

So when you look at the recent history of the Super Bowl winners, the model that normally wins is the team with several good receivers. Farmer and Pettine may be working under a false premise of what it takes to win a Super Bowl and should have drafted Sammy Watkins last month, even though I think Gilbert has all pro potential. Or, at the very least, taken a good WR with the first pick in round 2, even though I like Bitonio.

 

[Enigmatic Evil]

I think it's pretty clear to see, as we have in the past, the defensive coach came in and wanted to fix the defensive problems he saw. That's where we focused our attention. It really sucks that we had to do that, essentially, at the expense of the offense ANOTHER season but I think that in the end I agree with you. The Browns did the best to pick the scraps of the FA pool and bring in some veteran talent but I am skeptical of how well it will translate, especially without Gordon.

 

[hammertime]

has Gordon been suspended?

has the NFL officially made a statement even regarding Gordon?

hmmm. Is it actually possible that when 1 guy is on our roster all of sudden we will have respectability?

A lot garbage being spewed about something we have zero credible evidence on.

Lets at least get to a preseason game before we declare how stupid the Browns are and how smart we are....

 

[Shep]

I can't think of a team that played great defense, ran the ball really well, got it right at QB, but sucked because they didn't have Calvin Johnson, Josh Gordon, Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, etc.

In fact, none of the top teams had a WR anybody seriously thinks of as "elite." Generally we talk about the Big Four as Seattle, SF, Denver, and NE. They're the top four with Vegas once again. None of the superstar WRs play for any of those teams.

With a healthy Aaron Rodgers, I have to think Green Bay is close to that group. They never bother to take a WR in round one. So let's not start thinking Gordon, CJ, or Watkins are the commonalities of great teams. They clearly aren't.

We simply can't get better #1 WR play than we got from Gordon last season. And we were 4-12. Ka-blam.

 

[AttackOffense]

I think it's pretty clear to see, as we have in the past, the defensive coach came in and wanted to fix the defensive problems he saw. That's where we focused our attention. It really sucks that we had to do that, essentially, at the expense of the offense ANOTHER season but I think that in the end I agree with you. The Browns did the best to pick the scraps of the FA pool and bring in some veteran talent but I am skeptical of how well it will translate, especially without Gordon.

The Browns should have a good defense. To be a good defense they need to: rush the passer better from the OLB position; keep Dansby healthy; have Gilbert play like a #1 pick. If they can achieve these goals, they'll have a top 10 defense. But while I see a little improvement coming from Kruger, Sheard and Mingo, I don't think it will be a dramatic step forward. We'll see.

 

[Shep]

It'll be dramatic.

First, Pettine likes to get sacks from a lot of different people, not one. He gets a lot of sacks from the DL, unusual for a "3-4," but he doesn't exactly run a "3-4." He shows a lot of different fronts.

Guys like Desmond Bryant, Jabaal Sheard, Armonty Bryant, and Billy Winn are awesome fits for Pettine.

Also, a huge part of our dropoff in sacks in the second half of the season had to do with our failure on third downs because we lacked depth in the secondary for packages and had ILBs and a safety who were outright liabilities in coverage.

Drafting a top 10 CB to pair with a Pro Bowl cornerback is a HUGE commitment to coverage. But we're also adding Desir, Whitner, Dansby, and Kirksey to cover backs and TEs, a huge issue last year.

We have plenty of talented edge rushers, plus guys who can break through the middle of the pocket (Taylor, Dansby, Robertson, etc.). I fully expect this defense to be one of the five best in the NFL next year. I really do.

 

[AttackOffense]

I can't think of a team that played great defense, ran the ball really well, got it right at QB, but sucked because they didn't have Calvin Johnson, Josh Gordon, Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, etc.

In fact, none of the top teams had a WR anybody seriously thinks of as "elite." Generally we talk about the Big Four as Seattle, SF, Denver, and NE. They're the top four with Vegas once again. None of the superstar WRs play for any of those teams.

With a healthy Aaron Rodgers, I have to think Green Bay is close to that group. They never bother to take a WR in round one. So let's not start thinking Gordon, CJ, or Watkins are the commonalities of great teams. They clearly aren't.

We simply can't get better #1 WR play than we got from Gordon last season. And we were 4-12. Ka-blam.

Maybe in your eyes. But to me guys on 2013 playoff teams like AJ Green, Hilton, Jackson, Bowe, Welker and Thomas are very good receivers who can really hurt you.

Green Bay? Rogers' main target now, Randall Cobb, may have been a third round NFL choice but anyone who watched his dynamic play in the SEC when he was at Kentucky considered him the best offensive player in the league. If Cobb had played at Alabama or LSU, he would have been a first round draft choice for sure.

If Burleson and Austin are hurt a lot and the kids don't step up, the Browns are in real trouble at the wide receiver position. And that's the likely scenario as I see it.

For the 50th time, I'm not saying that WR is the end all be all for an offense, but I am saying you need good receivers to have a good offense. A running game, QB, OL and a TE can't do it all themselves. All elements of an offense need to click. The Browns attitude that we can be really competiive with oft-injured, old receivers is the kind of nonsense spewed forth by the loser Inidans for many years to fool fans. It never worked.

 

[AttackOffense]

It'll be dramatic.

First, Pettine likes to get sacks from a lot of different people, not one. He gets a lot of sacks from the DL, unusual for a "3-4," but he doesn't exactly run a "3-4." He shows a lot of different fronts.

Guys like Desmond Bryant, Jabaal Sheard, Armonty Bryant, and Billy Winn are awesome fits for Pettine.

Also, a huge part of our dropoff in sacks in the second half of the season had to do with our failure on third downs because we lacked depth in the secondary for packages and had ILBs and a safety who were outright liabilities in coverage.

Drafting a top 10 CB to pair with a Pro Bowl cornerback is a HUGE commitment to coverage. But we're also adding Desir, Whitner, Dansby, and Kirksey to cover backs and TEs, a huge issue last year.

We have plenty of talented edge rushers, plus guys who can break through the middle of the pocket (Taylor, Dansby, Robertson, etc.). I fully expect this defense to be one of the five best in the NFL next year. I really do.

Where you and I disagree is that you feel the Browns have excellent talent at OLB and I think it's very average in relation to the rest of the league. Robertson? Probalby wouldn't make the roster of most teams. Taylor? Average -- one of the most underachieving players in pro football. We'll see about the easily pushed around Kirksey. It seems Pettine was the only one high on him. Hope he is right.