Browns Game Thread - Washington FC 1-1 vs Browns 1-1 Game 3 | Page 6 | Barking Hard

Browns Game Thread Washington FC 1-1 vs Browns 1-1 Game 3

The Haymaker said:
Baker wont ever be a successful classic pocket QB in the NFL
theres a reason for that
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Maybe. Maybe not. It looks like Stefanski is bringing Baker along at an easier pace though and this is not an RPO offense. It's run heavy and PA pass off of that.

With nine guys in the box defending the run we'll see more out passes like the deep out he completed on the left sideline. I think it was Jarvis. Bottom line is getting Baker right and it's coming along. No INT's. A hair under 70% completion rate and a 117.3 QB rating. And this offense is not complete. I have yet to see a screen pass. I saw an end around for the first time Sunday. There is more stuff coming I'm sure.
 
OconRecon said:
Game grades coming in ...

Bitonio (81.0) and Teller (80.4) lead the offense.
Myles (91.0) and BJG (84.4) lead the defense.

At the moment, Teller is the NFL's #1 right guard, and Bitonio is the NFL's #4 left guard. Tretter is the #3 center. An injured Conklin is ranked as a top-20 OT, out of 100, and Jed is holding his own and growing.

So yep, it's on KS and Bake to scheme it up and execute. The middle is damn solid.
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Teller has been exceptionally impressive, but yeah him, Bitonio and JC Tretter are balling out as well as Conklin. Wills is a little behind, but that's as it should be. He's the rookie.

BJ Goodson had a good game too. Hopefully Mack Wilson will be back along with Greedy and we'll get a better sense of the potential this defense can be. I'm not expecting much, but I haven't seen the starters out there together either.
 
jaydog said:
Maybe. Maybe not. It looks like Stefanski is bringing Baker along at an easier pace though and this is not an RPO offense. It's run heavy and PA pass off of that.

With nine guys in the box defending the run we'll see more out passes like the deep out he completed on the left sideline. I think it was Jarvis. Bottom line is getting Baker right and it's coming along. No INT's. A hair under 70% completion rate and a 117.3 QB rating. And this offense is not complete. I have yet to see a screen pass. I saw an end around for the first time Sunday. There is more stuff coming I'm sure.
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from what ive seen from this offense anytime its a quick game 3 step drop its not reading anything its reading the defense pre snap picking an area 1-2 receivers on a side and making the best throw.

there isnt other reads/ check downs i think when people are seeing baker look quick and then look skidish its because the defense snuffed out where he was going to go and there isn no where else to go with the ball.

Not because he isnt getting to the next read there isnt one its a broken play at that point.
 
EastSideDawg said:
From what i seen some plays have all the routes breaking and the same or close to the same time. check the play at 1:40 the pass that went off Bryant's hands. you can see again at 4:30 and 8:12. i think the only plays that he reads multiple are on longer developing play action at 9:01 you can see he reads the TE to OBJ then hunt would be his 3rd check down read if he gets to it. he can only do what the coaches are asking him.
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Agreed, or you could say the coaches are only asking Baker to do what he can. They are designing the offense to best suit Baker. They know he can't see most of the field. They know he will be lucky to get to a second read and when he does he is usually late and often throws a INT. So, they are giving him as many 1 read opportunities as possible. Also, you are correct on Washington's defense, we knew going in they would make rolling out difficult, broken plays aside. Watching Baker sitting back there in the pocket, desperately trying to see through a crack in the OL while receiver options are running wide open directly in front of him is exceedingly frustrating. I bet it is for him too watching the tape. Has to be demoralizing. Take the OBJ reception on the sideline for example, when Baker did his usual rolling to the right routine. OBJ was jumping up and down in the middle of the field so wide open it was unreal ....Baker couldn't see him. He had to break out of the pocket to get it done.
 
TheBestPlayersPlay said:
Agreed, or you could say the coaches are only asking Baker to do what he can. They are designing the offense to best suit Baker. They know he can't see most of the field. They know he will be lucky to get to a second read and when he does he is usually late and often throws a INT. So, they are giving him as many 1 read opportunities as possible. Also, you are correct on Washington's defense, we knew going in they would make rolling out difficult, broken plays aside. Watching Baker sitting back there in the pocket, desperately trying to see through a crack in the OL while receiver options are running wide open directly in front of him is exceedingly frustrating. I bet it is for him too watching the tape. Has to be demoralizing. Take the OBJ reception on the sideline for example, when Baker did his usual rolling to the right routine. OBJ was jumping up and down in the middle of the field so wide open it was unreal ....Baker couldn't see him. He had to break out of the pocket to get it done.
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So Mr Expert... How much of the field can Kyler Murray see?
 
I'm not saying Baker is perfect... As long as he makes plays necessary to win games... I'm ok with him.... I want to see how he finishes out the year before I make a final judgement of his abilities.... So far he's 2 and 1 this year... Next week will tell us a lot about the ENTIRE team as a whole... But even after next week... The TEAM will NOT be a finished product yet..
 
EastSideDawg said:
from what ive seen from this offense anytime its a quick game 3 step drop its not reading anything its reading the defense pre snap picking an area 1-2 receivers on a side and making the best throw.

there isnt other reads/ check downs i think when people are seeing baker look quick and then look skidish its because the defense snuffed out where he was going to go and there isn no where else to go with the ball.

Not because he isnt getting to the next read there isnt one its a broken play at that point.
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I'm pretty sure the point of a three step drop is to make a quick completion before the coverage and rush can react. Usually there is a slant involved and there really is just one read. Not every single time, but how many three step drops has any QB sat in the pocket for more than a couple seconds?

I'm not saying Baker is a pocket passer. Just that he will be on occasion. A QB that sits in the same spot over and over is bound to get hammered by a decent defense.
 
you guys are all missing the point
you're saying "no his height is not an issue he is a good QB."
nobody is saying hes not a good QB.no one is saying he cant be a great QB
we are really just pointing out something that is GLARINGLY OBVIOUS
he needs coaching and playcalling that enhance his natural advantages/abilities
and try to limit situations where he is prone to struggle.
thats all

what I meant by RPO is simply a run pass option perhaps and not the recognised concept persae
from the bootleg you can now see your 1st down marker and make a quick decision to shake a guy or 2 for a 1st or pass downfield.
no pocket QB's dont want to regularly roll out from their protection.no they dont.
thats why they are called "pocket" QB's
the 3 QB's you listed a very good runners - proving my point.
so why run so many bootlegs with a QB who is not going to run? why is he having so much success doing it?
he has a rifle for an arm but prefers a flat trajectory and so..an open field is ideal
no linemen in the way you see - from either team.
this strategy works for his skill set and his height
how many batted balls at the line do you have to see before you realise bakers height matters and impacts his play?

murray and jackson run a similar style of bootleg heavy offence but run from it much more often.
but to say bakers height is a non issue and does not impact his performance in any way?
somethings shouldn't need to be argued when they are so plain to see
 
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The Haymaker said:
you guys are all missing the point
you're saying "no his height is not an issue he is a good QB."
nobody is saying hes not a good QB.no one is saying he cant be a great QB
we are really just pointing out something that is GLARINGLY OBVIOUS
he needs coaching and playcalling that enhance his natural advantages/abilities
and try to limit situations where he is prone to struggle.
thats all

what I meant by RPO is simply a run pass option perhaps and not the recognised concept persae
from the bootleg you can now see your 1st down marker and make a quick decision to shake a guy or 2 for a 1st or pass downfield.
no pocket QB's dont want to regularly roll out from their protection.no they dont.
thats why they are called "pocket" QB's
the 3 QB's you listed a very good runners - proving my point.
so why run so many bootlegs with a QB who is not going to run? why is he having so much success doing it?
he has a rifle for an arm but prefers a flat trajectory and so..an open field is ideal
no linemen in the way you see - from either team.
this strategy works for his skill set and his height
how many batted balls at the line do you have to see before you realise bakers height matters and impacts his play?

murray and jackson run a similar style of bootleg heavy offence but run from it much more often.
but to say bakers height is a non issue and does not impact his performance in any way?
somethings shouldn't need to be argued when they are so plain to see
Click to expand...
The Haymaker said:
what I meant by RPO is simply a run pass option perhaps and not the recognised concept persae
Click to expand...
I don't know what you're saying here. An RPO is a Run/Pass Option. A bootleg is a bootleg. There is no option in a bootleg. Typically it cuts the field in half and usually the pass rush too.
Explain to me why running bootlegs is obviously for Baker and if so why is that different for other QB's running bootegs? I'm interested to understand the difference.



The Haymaker said:
you guys are all missing the point
you're saying "no his height is not an issue he is a good QB."
nobody is saying hes not a good QB.no one is saying he cant be a great QB
we are really just pointing out something that is GLARINGLY OBVIOUS
he needs coaching and playcalling that enhance his natural advantages/abilities
and try to limit situations where he is prone to struggle.
thats all
Click to expand...

I never mentioned his height. But I have seen Baker make excellent passes from the pocket.
 
The Haymaker said:
you guys are all missing the point
you're saying "no his height is not an issue he is a good QB."
nobody is saying hes not a good QB.no one is saying he cant be a great QB
we are really just pointing out something that is GLARINGLY OBVIOUS
he needs coaching and playcalling that enhance his natural advantages/abilities
and try to limit situations where he is prone to struggle.
thats all

what I meant by RPO is simply a run pass option perhaps and not the recognised concept persae
from the bootleg you can now see your 1st down marker and make a quick decision to shake a guy or 2 for a 1st or pass downfield.
no pocket QB's dont want to regularly roll out from their protection.no they dont.
thats why they are called "pocket" QB's
the 3 QB's you listed a very good runners - proving my point.
so why run so many bootlegs with a QB who is not going to run? why is he having so much success doing it?
he has a rifle for an arm but prefers a flat trajectory and so..an open field is ideal
no linemen in the way you see - from either team.
this strategy works for his skill set and his height
how many batted balls at the line do you have to see before you realise bakers height matters and impacts his play?

murray and jackson run a similar style of bootleg heavy offence but run from it much more often.
but to say bakers height is a non issue and does not impact his performance in any way?
somethings shouldn't need to be argued when they are so plain to see
Click to expand...


My biggest issues with Murray and Jackson is they are running college offenses... DC's will get hip to it eventually.. I just don't see long term success for them.... They are "Run First" QB's... That's not a good recipe for longevity in this league...
 
TheBestPlayersPlay said:
Agreed, or you could say the coaches are only asking Baker to do what he can. They are designing the offense to best suit Baker. They know he can't see most of the field. They know he will be lucky to get to a second read and when he does he is usually late and often throws a INT. So, they are giving him as many 1 read opportunities as possible. Also, you are correct on Washington's defense, we knew going in they would make rolling out difficult, broken plays aside. Watching Baker sitting back there in the pocket, desperately trying to see through a crack in the OL while receiver options are running wide open directly in front of him is exceedingly frustrating. I bet it is for him too watching the tape. Has to be demoralizing. Take the OBJ reception on the sideline for example, when Baker did his usual rolling to the right routine. OBJ was jumping up and down in the middle of the field so wide open it was unreal ....Baker couldn't see him. He had to break out of the pocket to get it done.
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I think he can see the field enough, he just cant read it.
He is looking at one concept at ine side of the field but arter that first read between two receivers, he is unable to quickly read the rest of the field. He starts feeling oressure and rolls. Its a scramble drill from there.

Maybe the problem isnt that he is short, but more that he isnt experienced.
 
Stylepoints said:
I think he can see the field enough, he just cant read it.
He is looking at one concept at ine side of the field but arter that first read between two receivers, he is unable to quickly read the rest of the field. He starts feeling oressure and rolls. Its a scramble drill from there.

Maybe the problem isnt that he is short, but more that he isnt experienced.
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It doesn't seem to be a problem for Drew Brees or Murray whose even shorter..... I think the short thing is over scrutinized...
 
nickers said:
It doesn't seem to be a problem for Drew Brees or Murray whose even shorter..... I think the short thing is over scrutinized...
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i agree...i think the main reason josh Allen is doing well is not because he is tall its because they have been building him in the same system and same OC this will be his 3rd year.

if you switch Allen to the browns 3 systems 3 years and put baker in the same system for 3 years no doubt they would be playing differently.

i couldn't even start to think how baker would look in this system in his 3rd year. we have unrealistic expectations with a short offseason and 3 games in. Just give baker some consistency for gods sake. He probably is still swimming a bit once it becomes second nature and he has ran all the plays 100s of times guess what he will look sharper.
 
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