Manziel throws Browns under the bus

[Lou Groza]

Well.... why did Brandon Phillips, at 19, w/supreme confidence coming fast up thru the minors get put in CLE at 2nd Base FOR THE WHOLE YEAR, struggling terribly at the plate, batting around the Mendoza Line... 0.200 ?

By SMART baseball men... Mark Shapiro and, who was Manager back then, who was between Hargrove & Wedge... it escapes me!

I'm not saying Pettine is any guru, btw

...nonetheless

That answer will answer your question
..beat around the bush question, that is: Why was Johnny GIVEN a shot, repeated shots, helpless as he was?

And to nullify your coaching fiasco theory, as THE REASON it wasn't ''the kid" Johnny - wasn't the amazing Kyle Shanahan the asshole's QB Coach? Came in specifically to work with a talent the likes Manziel possessed??

 

[madmadworld]

2014

The last time worth paying attention to. the dreams I had back then. why I found and joined this forum.
Hoyer the 10-6 QB for us. benched for jonny give me a break or whatever jonny was smoking... good grief.

This blaming Hoyer for anything but a bad throw here and there is just ridiculous. that goes for his time here and Houston.

Much Love to you Mr Hoyer


Our biggest hope is if the homeless man takes Jimmy to a bar on draft day.

In my opinion, the real travesty was that Pettine got paid.

After all the really good posts you made in this thread....smh
If there was ever a undermined HC it was Mike, he earned every dollar+. if left alone... we will never know.

As far as jonny goes ... he's telling it best as he can remember it....lol
remember he was pretty sexed up at the time.

 

[Lou Groza]

Pettine was doing some good things, honestly!

In spite of Ray Farmer's botched picks.

THEN.......Swan

I agree with the UNDERMINING of Pettine, too.
.....Our lovely owner :target:


.

 

[Brownsfan]

Well.... why did Brandon Phillips, at 19, w/supreme confidence coming fast up thru the minors get put in CLE at 2nd Base FOR THE WHOLE YEAR, struggling terribly at the plate, batting around the Mendoza Line... 0.200 ?

By SMART baseball men... Mark Shapiro and, who was Manager back then, who was between Hargrove & Wedge... it escapes me!

I'm not saying Pettine is any guru, btw

...nonetheless

That answer will answer your question
..beat around the bush question, that is: Why was Johnny GIVEN a shot, repeated shots, helpless as he was?

And to nullify your coaching fiasco theory, as THE REASON it wasn't ''the kid" Johnny - wasn't the amazing Kyle Shanahan the asshole's QB Coach? Came in specifically to work with a talent the likes Manziel possessed??

First of all, a kid playing second base in the American League is not the same as a kid playing quarterback in the NFL. As we all know, a third baseman could be traded from one team to another team one afternoon and after a redeye flight and learning a few signals can start for his new team the very next evening. When the guy goes up to bat, it is just him and the pitcher battling it out, individual against individual.

Not so in football. Football is a more coordinated team sport and requires a coordinated attack to be successful. That is why continuity is so much more important in football than baseball.

As for Shanahan, I would mention that Shanahan was the offensive coordinator, not the quarterback coach. But regardless, like the QB coach, Dowell Loggains, Shanahan got his orders from Pettine. And as you may recall, Shanahan was not happy with his situation in Cleveland and put together a powerpoint presentation that is said to have specified the reasons for his unhappiness.

I have always wondered what was in that presentation. I have the sense that it was not complementary of Pettine.

 

[Brownsfan]

Pettine was doing some good things, honestly!

In spite of Ray Farmer's botched picks.

THEN.......Swan

I agree with the UNDERMINING of Pettine, too.
.....Our lovely owner :target:


.

I have to disagree with you. I think Pettine was the poorest excuse for a head coach I ever saw. I understand that he has had relative success as a defensive coordinator.

 

[madmadworld]

Powerpoint

I have always wondered what was in that presentation. I have the sense that it was not complementary of Pettine.

How did you get that ?

From all I read back then... I thought is was mostly on the FO.

 

[Brownsfan]

The last time worth paying attention to. the dreams I had back then. why I found and joined this forum.
Hoyer the 10-6 QB for us. benched for jonny give me a break or whatever jonny was smoking... good grief.

Who benched him, MMW? My recollection is that Pettine debated with himself about benching Hoyer during a press conference.

This blaming Hoyer for anything but a bad throw here and there is just ridiculous. that goes for his time here and Houston.

Much Love to you Mr Hoyer

All you really need to remember is that it was Pettine who benched Hoyer. Farmer may have drafted Manziel and Haslam may have had a role in that, but it was Pettine who benched Hoyer for Manziel. And you might as well note that it wasn't because Pettine thought Manziel was better. Replacing Hoyer with Manziel was absurd because Manziel did not know the offense.

Apparently the purpose was to demonstrate his power and punish either Shanahan or Hoyer for some unknown (or undisclosed) sin. It put Shanahan in an awkward position and embarrassed Hoyer.

Our biggest hope is if the homeless man takes Jimmy to a bar on draft day.

After all the really good posts you made in this thread....smh
If there was ever a undermined HC it was Mike, he earned every dollar+. if left alone... we will never know.

Pettine was the power in 2014. Nobody had the ability to undermine Pettine in 2014. He was the man that could not be fired and he was feeling his oats. When Banner fired Chud after one year, Pettine was invulnerable until he had completed his second year. It wasn't until the last half of the 2015 season that he became aware that the tide had shifted and that his two year reign as the Browns kingpin was coming to a close. He told Haslam that he couldn't win with the players he had been given, and Haslam told him that he had been given everything he had asked for.

As far as jonny goes ... he's telling it best as he can remember it....lol
remember he was pretty sexed up at the time.

Forget Johnny. He is at most a footnote. The villain in this story is Pettine.

 

[madmadworld]

I liked Mike

Who benched him, MMW? My recollection is that Pettine debated with himself about benching Hoyer during a press conference.



All you really need to remember is that it was Pettine who benched Hoyer. Farmer may have drafted Manziel and Haslam may have had a role in that, but it was Pettine who benched Hoyer for Manziel. And you might as well note that it wasn't because Pettine thought Manziel was better. Replacing Hoyer with Manziel was absurd because Manziel did not know the offense.

Apparently the purpose was to demonstrate his power and punish either Shanahan or Hoyer for some unknown (or undisclosed) sin. It put Shanahan in an awkward position and embarrassed Hoyer.



Pettine was the power in 2014. Nobody had the ability to undermine Pettine in 2014. He was the man that could not be fired and he was feeling his oats. When Banner fired Chud after one year, Pettine was invulnerable until he had completed his second year. It wasn't until the last half of the 2015 season that he became aware that the tide had shifted and that his two year reign as the Browns kingpin was coming to a close. He told Haslam that he couldn't win with the players he had been given, and Haslam told him that he had been given everything he had asked for.



Forget Johnny. He is at most a footnote. The villain in this story is Pettine.

You must have went for some Fake News
Even I could Feel Pressure Mike was under at that time. he seen jonny for what he was. did not want him.......... let alone to play him. Farmer truly in his Ear.... with Jimmy's voice. lol

 

[madmadworld]

For the record

Joe Thomas says Johnny Manziel doomed Mike Pettine, 2014 Browns

Imagine for a moment, if you will, another time - Practically another world for Cleveland Browns fans. In this world, the year is 2014, and the upstart Browns are 7-4 and in sole possession of first place in a highly-competitive AFC North under first year head coach Mike Pettine. In this world, Browns fans are living in a beautiful dream: A dream that they may very well have found the formula that will make them playoff contenders in the National Football League once more.

That dream, of course, turned into a nightmare by season's end. And most Browns faithful, as well as their most-beloved current player, can take a wild guess as to why.

With both former Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel and Browns head coach Mike Pettine resurfacing in the news, one as a Canadian Football League prospect and the other as the new defensive coordinator of the Green Bay Packers, Browns left tackle Joe Thomas discussed on his podcast with former Browns receiver Andrew Hawkins how Manziel being forced onto the field in 2014 ultimately sank both the Browns' promising season, and eventually Mike Pettine, who was fired after a three-win season in 2015.

"The problem with the Mike Pettine experience in Cleveland as a head coach was Johnny Manziel," said Thomas, as reported by CBS Cleveland. "He was drafted in the first round. He was the heir apparent as the quarterback, and people in the front office wanted to sell tickets and they wanted Johnny Manziel playing."

Manziel had lost the Browns' preseason quarterback competition to veteran Brian Hoyer, who had stabilized the position and had the Browns on the path to a winning season, if not a playoff appearance. But Hoyer hit a snag after the Browns' seventh win of the season, throwing multiple turnovers in the next several games. That led to pressure from the front office for the coaching staff to bench Hoyer in favor of Manziel - A move that the locker room knew was bound to fail.

"Everybody that was on the football side of things that saw him practice, that saw him prepare – or lack of prepare – saw him in the meeting room, saw that he wasn’t mature enough, [knew] he wouldn’t be able to handle it," continued Thomas. "But the first moment that [Brian] Hoyer slips up, now you’ve got those very powerful people in the front office saying, ‘You gotta play this guy, you gotta play this guy’ and it went on for a couple of weeks and finally it got to the point where they won the argument and we had to play Johnny and as soon as that happened it was like everybody on the football side just gave up because they knew what the results were going to be like.

"They knew that while the whole run around and throw the ball up in the air works in college, that’s not something that works in the NFL. You have to have that baseline amount of preparation to be able to go out there and proficiently operate offensively to give your team a chance to win and if you don’t do that it’s just not gonna happen."

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland...iel-doomed-Mike-Pettine-2014-Browns-113589822

 

[Brownsfan]

You must have went for some Fake News
Even I could Feel Pressure Mike was under at that time. he seen jonny for what he was. did not want him.......... let alone to play him. Farmer truly in his Ear.... with Jimmy's voice. lol

Because Banner fired Chud after only one year, Haslam couldn't fire Pettine for two years because it would have been a PR nightmare for Haslam. We all know that. We discussed it ad nauseam at the time. For this reason Pettine was in a particularly strong position in 2014. Yet you seem to think Pettine did absurd things against his will despite his position of strength.

I suppose it is possible that Farmer wanted Pettine to start Manziel. If so, Farmer was an idiot. Why would anybody insist on starting a quarterback who didn't know the offense? It makes no sense. What we do know is that Pettine benched Hoyer for Manziel despite the fact that he knew Manziel did not know the offense. And you want to blame anybody for that except Pettine.

The funny thing is that you and others insist that a kid like Johnny Manziel should accept full responsibility for his own actions and denounce any suggestion that Browns management might have had some role in his failure, and yet you desire to absolve the head coach of responsibility for his actions and point to supposed pressure from Farmer. And this at a time when Pettine was in a particularly strong position.

Whatever.

 

[madmadworld]

Whatever

Because Banner fired Chud after only one year, Haslam couldn't fire Pettine for two years because it would have been a PR nightmare for Haslam. We all know that. We discussed it ad nauseam at the time. For this reason Pettine was in a particularly strong position in 2014. Yet you seem to think Pettine did absurd things against his will despite his position of strength.

I suppose it is possible that Farmer wanted Pettine to start Manziel. If so, Farmer was an idiot. Why would anybody insist on starting a quarterback who didn't know the offense? It makes no sense. What we do know is that Pettine benched Hoyer for Manziel despite the fact that he knew Manziel did not know the offense. And you want to blame anybody for that except Pettine.

The funny thing is that you and others insist that a kid like Johnny Manziel should accept full responsibility for his own actions and denounce any suggestion that Browns management might have had some role in his failure, and yet you desire to absolve the head coach of responsibility for his actions and point to supposed pressure from Farmer. And this at a time when Pettine was in a particularly strong position.

Whatever.

but Joe Thomas ???? .......... a liar
he knows nothing... tooo many hits to the head ?

What is ... Hillary POTUS... Trump ... hitler .......lol

 

[Enigmatic Evil]

The truth made us better...

We realized Ray Farmer was a fucking moron and fired his ass.

 

[OzDawg]

but Joe Thomas ???? .......... a liar
he knows nothing... tooo many hits to the head ?

What is ... Hillary POTUS... Trump ... hitler .......lol

Lou rubbing off on ya mate?

 

[twizbuck]

FO, coaches, most of the players... they've all been awful these last two decades. Plenty of blame to go around. Of course, it all starts at the top. But this circus isn't limited to one person or one season. It's a systematic issue that we have yet to even begin to fix since the return. We can argue all day and night about whose fault it was and who started it, but since there's blame to be placed on just about everyone, I'd rather focus on what can end it.

 

[madmadworld]

What ?

Here I thought he was just talking about the ..... and more ....... and more .......... LOL

 

[Stylepoints]

So the front office and coaching staff are not on the same page, Manziel is obviously the wrong pick but they take him anyway, so yeah, lets put our fingers in our ears and yell "nananana I cant hear you!!" and blame everyone but the Browns leadership (lack thereof) and blame everyone else and keep this shitshow going.
Sure hope this FO is smarter, but Hue sure isnt.

 

[hammertime]

looks like Lou passed out for 6 hours and got right back on the horse.....

use the appropriate sections of the forum Lou, or don't. Your choice.


Besides the way you flippin rant your not a good frontman .....

 

[Greythan]

Its actually sort of scary in a way.

 

[Brownsfan]

The truth made us better...

We realized Ray Farmer was a fucking moron and fired his ass.

Well, if Farmer knew that Manziel didn't know the offense (And how could he not know?), but nevertheless insisted that Manziel start, then that is exactly what he was, a moron.

However, that I have seen no direct evidence to support that contention. I am generally aware that Farmer and Pettine had some disagreements, but I don't know that that was one of them. The Mary Kay article I linked a number of posts ago seemed to imply it by the quoting Hoyer as saying that he didn't know at the time that Farmer wanted to start Manziel.

The implication of not previously knowing something is that one now knows it. If Hoyer now believes Farmer wanted Manziel to start, maybe it is true. But if he has a plausible reason for now believing it, I haven't see it, and Haslam firing Farmer is not a reason to believe anything. Haslam has fired any number of people for any number of reasons, valid or not. One of the reasons I now find myself incredibly surprised that the dysfunction in Berea has apparently ended is that Haslam was apparently involved in fixing it.

So give me some credible evidence that Farmer was pressuring Pettine to start Manziel and I will be in full agreement with you that Farmer was a moron.

But even if Farmer was pressuring Pettine, it does not absolve Pettine of responsibility for what Pettine did. We all know two things for sure: first we know that Pettine benched Hoyer for Manziel and, two, we know that Manziel did not know the offense. What Pettine did put Shanahan in an awkward position and embarrassed Hoyer for no good reason. I don't know if Farmer was a moron, but I do know that Pettine was an arrogant bastard.

 

[Brownsfan]

but Joe Thomas ???? .......... a liar
he knows nothing... tooo many hits to the head ?

The first thing to note is that Joe referred to "powerful people in the FO" in his podcast. He does not refer to Farmer specifically by name. I suspect that the reason is that while he may surmise that Farmer and/or Haslam wanted Manziel to start for the purpose of ticket sales, he really has no concrete information or evidence of same.

We do know that Farmer and Pettine had disagreements. For example, the one about Terrelle Pryor was obvious. When Farmer signs a player and then Pettine releases him to sign a running back that Pettine never used, and then Farmer later again signs Pryor, there is good evidence of a disagreement.

Maybe a disagreement about starting Manziel also existed. Just because I haven't seen evidence for it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But as far as I know, neither Pettine nor Farmer (nor Haslam, who presumably would know) has ever addressed this issue directly. And neither of them have ever explained why Pettine held a quarterback competition between Hoyer and Manziel in 2014 when at least the coaches knew that one of the participants, Manziel, did not know the offense and was just winging it.

How stupid was that?