The Offensive Line | Page 11 |

The Offensive Line

First lesson in golf is if your changing your game with lessons stay off the course!
Dawson is here to retire, let him
No need to screw up a rookies head before opening day.

I was at the ravens game last year and my heart skipped a beat on Joseph’s kick,I thought for sure the ball would go under the cross bars it was so ugly.
 
We see you Wyatt Teller. The NFL's best LG of the preseason.

116 snaps over the first 3 preseason games (didn't play preseason game 4, as he was traded to us right before the game).

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NDneighbor said:
They would be wise to call Phil Dawson to get some input.
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I don't know if you missed it, but Dawson was at training camp talking to the kickers. It was when he announced his retirement. And I saw video where he was talking with the kickers. Immediately after that Seibert started making his kicks.

:eyebrows:
 
Shep said:
This Teller pickup is gonna get added to Dorsey's HOF introduction. I can feel it.
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Agree. I'm digging #77 already, and haven't even seen him play a down for us, although I like his VaTech tape.

Bitonio + Teller is better than what KC has.


2018:

KC
Wylie 27th
Erving 76th

CLE
Bitonio 5th
Teller 56th

BUT, Teller is young & ascending. I/we really think he is.



2019 preseason:

KC
Wylie 157th (although, he's better than this)
Erving 95th (but he's now at back-up RT, as he's lost his starting LG spot, it would appear)
Duvernay-Tardif - 63rd (their new LG)

CLE
Bitonio 55th (but Joel is an established top 5 guard in the league)
Teller 9th - and that's a good sample size, 100+ snaps.

(edit, Wyatt is now at 20th, out of 200+ guards, as PFF has put some low snap count guys ahead of him)
 
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Shep said:
This Teller pickup is gonna get added to Dorsey's HOF introduction. I can feel it.
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I bet he'd get cut sooner than show up in any Hall of Fame Speech. I love how you always find the positive in everything, I really do, but sometimes you just gotta accept that a cast-off from a super shit team like the Bills is just a cast-off from a super shit team.

RG is a problem ... a big problem ... and I hope that Baker and Chubb's abilities can overcome that problem. That's the only positive that I can try and find.

-Al
 
Geech, I think you're negging your own team, man. The Teller trade got huge love all across the league, national and local media. THE film study guy right now is Jake Burns... and after seriously digging in, he says it was a terrific move and thinks Teller could very well be the Browns longterm RG.

Where exactly do you think guards come from? Look around the league. If you're focusing dollars in the right places, you have to be shrewd at the other ones. With Bitonio as one of the league's highest paid guards, there was never any chance of the Browns restructuring their cap away from that nonsense... and then inexplicably returning to it. They meant what they did.

There's no reason to shit on Teller (or rationale). He was really good last year for the Bills, pressed into service as a rookie and handled himself very well. Then he continued it through the preseason. He's literally never been anything but a pleasant surprise for them and it netted them some picks.

You like Dorsey, right? He just sent two picks out for a guard, so he likes Teller a ton (he and the Avengers of Personnel), just like Jake Burns. But you're asserting that both are dimwits and Teller is already doomed to fail. Why?

He looks athletic on tape (great pull ability) in addition to his well known gorilla strength. Is it a guarantee? Nope, as is true for the other 31 teams not starting a pair of 1st round guards on massive second deals. But there's a ton to like.

Choose your coach and system... and draft for it. Keep the pipeline filled. Aim for continuity but don't break the bank on one guy. Pay attention to the Rams because in many ways they're the Browns two years ahead.

Again, it's seen far and wide as a major positive, the Teller trade. No reason to spin it negative for your own team.
 
I am still struggling to see why everyone thinks our OL is this big mess.

Last year the Browns gave up 38 sacks...not very good...but ONLY FIVE (5) in the final 8 games of the season!!!

I agree losing Zeitler will have an impact, but Kush isn't exactly chump change. In 344 snaps last year he gave up exactly ZERO sacks. He isn't on the level of Zeitler, but he isn't a turnstile either.

In week 3 of the preseason the Browns OL struggled, but the first team OL still only gave up 1 sack for the half. Part of the benefit of having Mayfield is he doesn't need as much time. Go back and look at the pass plays...the Browns were running deep/slow developing routes and the WR's were not where they were supposed to be.

I am not worried about the OL that much. It can improve for sure, but it I don't see it as something that will overly hinder the offensive play.
 
DawgFan said:
I am still struggling to see why everyone thinks our OL is this big mess.
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The only thing I can think of is we have no super big names at OT. And although Bitonio is a big name among football gearheads, guards just rarely get known. Same for centers.

PFF has us ranked, I think, at 21, which isn't bad since we lost Zeitler, their #1 ranked guard last year.

Bitonio is still a top 5 guard
Tretter is top 10
RG is a downgrade (it is what it is)
Hubbard is underappreciated, but he's reliable

G-Rob has a Baker friendly skill set that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, but a guy who never gets bull-rushed is something Baker can do. It's what he had at OU.
 
I don't see much (if any) let down in pass pro with the one change, from Z to Kush. They're both very good at it. Zeitler is better in the run game, which is where I think Teller would more or less put that back to even.

I, too, am a little lost on the fairly sudden angst about the line. I just don't get the sense anybody's terribly worried about it in Berea. We have a really nice group.

Agree on the "names" thing, part of building your cap around QB/WR/EDGE and so on, doing it more like Rams/Packers/Patriots. Anybody gets too big for their britches, Pats let'em walk. Like Joe said, Brady makes that work, just like Baker.

If you don't have the QB, you can pay linemen all you want, you're still not winning anything.
 
As much as I love what John Dorsey has done, his inattention to the OL is baffling. The only high selection we used on the line is a healthy scratch, and we're realistically only good at C and LG.

The sad part is, I'm not sure what can be done this season to address it. At this stage, the first round pick the Redskins want for Trent Williams is a great fucking start.

Outside of that, Hubbard is crap and RG is still very much up in the air.

But, as much as I am usually against desperation trades, we need to go get Trent Williams.
 
plenty of posters early in this thread voiced concerns about this line
good on you guys
well spotted
when we face a serious rush
we are going to have serious problems
can I take out a policy on an nfl qb?
surely in florida it can be done:eyebrows:
 
Hubbard was so bad. Kush was fine. G-Rob was tossed. I don't really know what to say, I still don't understand what happened. Baker had like a 93 PFF in the first three quarters... but man, once the wheels came off, they came off.

It's impossible to wrap one's mind around 183 yards in penalties, and how many conduct type calls? 4? 5? What the fuck?

Felt like we should've taken a big early lead but it just didn't happen. Energy off that first drive, I thought the stadium would take off into space. Then... a lot of head scratching. Oh, and we had the 3rd best pass rush day in the league.

Robinson and Higgins getting hurt clearly didn't help. I just hope it's an anomaly because agreed, tough to bring in OL in season. Could do some shuffling if it keeps up, get Hubbard off the field somehow.

I honestly feel like I can't bring myself to talk about it for more than like 3 minutes.
 
Shep said:
...I honestly feel like I can't bring myself to talk about it for more than like 3 minutes.
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Same. The fan side of me is still recovering.

Baker was 21 of 28 for 264 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT’s to start the 4th Q. Then the wheels came off.

I mean, if we lost the way the Texans lost, then fine. But damn that was hard. And I used to respond to a loss with a big list of positives, even when were were losing. At least I felt like I did.

Kinda running out of silver lining fuel after the last few years.
 
OconRecon said:
Kinda running out of silver lining fuel after the last few years.
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No silver lining?

Consider that Greg Robinson will be fined but not suspended.

Consider that Kush played will. If somebody had told me that he would play well before the game, I would have been delighted with the news.

Consider that Baker was off and still had relatively good numbers until the fourth quarter when he took some chances he would likely not take otherwise. The X-Rays of his arm were negative and he had no wrap of his hand or wrist at practice Tuesday. He is throwing well in practice.

Consider that Nick Chubb rushed for 75 yards on 17 carries even though we were down two scores for over half the game. Generally, teams do not run the ball as much when they are down in the score. Compare Conner's 23 yards on 10 rushes for Pittsburgh in their game with NE.

Look, guys, we no longer have a problem with subpar talent. Considering individual talent only, we probably have the most talented team in the league. Being the most talented team does not make us the best team, of course, and we certainly are not at this point. But it bodes well for the future.

Our problem used to be talent. Only a couple years ago, we were one of the least talented teams in the league, but that is no longer the case. Our problem in the game last Sunday was a lack of preparation and focus which results basically from a lack of maturity, both individually and as a team.

But a lack of maturity is fixable merely by allowing these talented kids to play together until they have the maturity both individual and as a team to be dominate in the league.

No silver lining. BS.
 
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I mean, it's not bullshit: We came out roaring, lost our starting LT, had penalties on almost every play, lost our momentum, still seemed like we were gonna win the game (to me) until everything just went to shit all at once.

I got that 183 yards in penalties is gonna stop you from taking that lead you want so badly... but I still thought we were gonna overcome it. Baker looked good.

Bottom line: Kush and the starting OL as a whole looked good. The first drive was spectacular. We won't have 183 yards in penalties for another 70 years or whatever I read.

Hubbard is not a left tackle and we need to get this young and fiery team to chill the fuck out. And we need to get a win Monday night.
 
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