Stray Dawg
Journeyman; Local '56
Dead man walking.......
I'm seriously digging Dorsey's approach so far
- Thread starter OconRecon
- Start date
Dead man walking.......
DawgFan
In NFL HELL since 1964
...but they are already talking with Duke Johnson!!!
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/browns_and_duke_johnson_workin.html
Starting this early, they will get the money done. Another move to forge continuity...even if he HC ends up gone.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/browns_and_duke_johnson_workin.html
Starting this early, they will get the money done. Another move to forge continuity...even if he HC ends up gone.
Brownsfan
Continuity Please!
There is every reason to believe that Hue and Zampese may have preferred a kid they knew and liked and there is also every reason to think that Dorsey thought Taylor made more sense in the current situation than McCarron (assuming we plan to draft a quarterback #1 in the draft which seems rather obvious).
Maybe we could have gotten McCarron and maybe not. Taylor is sure this way and also sends a message in FA. Assuming also that the article is actually based on reliable sources and was not merely made up from whole cloth, it is not unreasonable to suspect Haley might have preferred Taylor. Put it all together, and Dorsey was obviously justified in making the decision he made to go after Taylor (as I think most of us would likely do also).
However, for all you Hue haters out there, I would just like to mention that if Big John is successful with putting together a team with which the coaches can win, which seems to be happening, it is very likely that Hue, Haley and Gregg will have an extended stay in Cleveland.
And I could not be more pleased with the prospect of actual continuity and stability. Cheers.
DawgFan
In NFL HELL since 1964
Actually, I hated Hue's offensive play calling. If he can keep his mitts off the offense and let Haley do his job...hell, I am ALL FOR CONTINUITY!!! My biggest problem with Hue is that he has come across as someone willing to throw anyone under the bus. Not sure if that is true, but it sure comes across that way. With that said, a winning HC can do that as long as he continues to win...so I hope Hue puts it all together, lets his coordinators do their jobs...and the Hue led Browns are perennial playoff/SB contenders.
Brownsfan
Continuity Please!
I think the success of a play caller has a great deal to do with the players executing the plays. Hue seemed to have a lot of success in Cincinnati to suddenly become a blockhead in Cleveland. The test for Haley will be if he can be as successful in Cleveland as he was in Pittsburgh with Ben, Bell and Brown executing his plays. I think his success post 3 Bs will depend in large measure on how successful Dorsey is in bringing in players who can execute his offense.
I can only second your hope for the Browns as perennial playoff/SB contenders.
Stray Dawg
Journeyman; Local '56
Hues playcalling sucked out loud for all to see! Poor play selections for a rookie QB, no running game, poor game preparation, no discipline etc etc etc........
KJP
Well-known member
Enigmatic Evil
Mr. Censor
The biggest thing was abandoning the run as soon as the team fell behind (which didn't take long some games).
I'm with Cliff that we can't ignore execution. We had hot ass on the field and it showed. 0-16 is a collective effort and no one deserves to be singled out. Hue was rewarded by the Browns firing a GM who he had more sway than and also hiring coaches who could take his job in a heartbeat.
I'm with Cliff that we can't ignore execution. We had hot ass on the field and it showed. 0-16 is a collective effort and no one deserves to be singled out. Hue was rewarded by the Browns firing a GM who he had more sway than and also hiring coaches who could take his job in a heartbeat.
Brownsfan
Continuity Please!
All I am saying is that play selection works a lot better when the play caller has a veteran quarterback like Andy Dalton throwing to guys like A. J. Green, Marvin Jones and Tyler Eifert instead of a rookie quarterback like DeShone Kizer throwing to the likes of Ricardo Lewis, Rashard Higgins and Seth DeValve.
It was just not the same thing.
And as for the running game that people keep talking about, Crowell is simply not a RB who can move defenders in order to move the chains. Holes have to be opened up for him in order for him to be successful. When defenses load the box, Crowell generally gets caught behind the line of scrimmage. So when defenses load the box and all you have is Crowell, you have to pass. Granted, Crowell is probably about as good as Jeremy Hill was, but in Cincinnati, defenses couldn't afford to load the box because Dalton would kill them throwing to A. J. Green.
That is really all I am saying. Hue Jackson, the offensive genius in Cincinnati didn't just suddenly become a blockhead in Cleveland.
But we need to get past that. Todd Haley is the new OC and play caller and Hue Jackson is the head coach. And if Dorsey provides Hue's coordinators with the players they need in order to win, Hue is likely to be our head coach for a long time to come.
I think people might as well get used to the idea.
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Greythan
Yin & Yang
Was he ever really a genius? You may have been being hyperbolic, but after watching last year its hard to see him as some type of offensive genius. And yes I realize what he had to work with but that only goes so far in its explanatory power.
Brownsfan
Continuity Please!
His success in Cincinnati as an offensive coordinator was the reason he was a hot property in 2016 for head coach.
DawgFan
In NFL HELL since 1964
His offense ranked 15th in yards for both 2014 and 2015...his only years as their OC. He did rank 7th in scoring in 2015...but that was as much about the D stifling other teams and taking the ball away (21 INT's) as it was about him.
Hue got the hot property thing because Dalton had his best year of his career up to that point in 2015...but then had even a better year the year he left...so there is that.
Greythan
Yin & Yang
Yeah, I know that (as you knew I did). The question still stands and Dawg's stats hint at a narrative other than being the "hot property": Was he ever really a genius?
(I do hope the answer is yes, btw.)
Brownsfan
Continuity Please!
You are pretty good at getting me off track with statements like Dalton having a better year in 2016 than in 2015. I suppose it depends on what you are looking for (read my signature), but I would note that Dalton's yards per passing attempt was higher in 2015 and his passer rating was 14.5 points higher in 2015 than in 2016. (And, yes, I freely admit that Simon's line from "The Boxer" works for me too. Indeed, I put it there mainly for my own benefit.)
The bottom line is that Hue was the hot property for head coach in 2016 mainly because he was perceived as having been particularly effective as an OC in Cincinnati in 2015. Nothing you can say will change that.
TheBestPlayersPlay
Die-Hard
Hue was propped up and marketed by certain organizations, the media eats up that shit, and then some fans do too. (see, Cliff)
Never a genius, nor a QB whisperer. Might be a decent OC. But we know he blows as a HC, so does Raiders fan.
Now that he is a figurehead, maybe he gets to ride the wave again.
Never a genius, nor a QB whisperer. Might be a decent OC. But we know he blows as a HC, so does Raiders fan.
Now that he is a figurehead, maybe he gets to ride the wave again.
Brownsfan
Continuity Please!
Yeah, I know that (as you knew I did). The question still stands and Dawg's stats hint at a narrative other than being the "hot property": Was he ever really a genius?
(I do hope the answer is yes, btw.)
All I am really saying is that he is the same Hue Jackson today that he was in Cincinnati in 2015. The difference was the players he had to work with there and here. I had no problem with him hiring an OC like Todd Haley and turning the play calling responsibility over to him. But, my point is that, like Hue, Haley will need good players in order to succeed.
It is my expectation that Dorsey will endeavor to give Haley the players he needs to succeed and I am sure he intends to do the same for Gregg on defense. He has already made a good start with the acquisition of Taylor, Landry and Randall. We shall see what else he is able to do in FA and the draft.
DawgFan
In NFL HELL since 1964
Oh...come on BF...Green was out 6 games in 2016 otherwise that year would have been EPIC!!! 1000 yards more than 2015, his lowest INT% of his career, all while getting sacked 2x as often as in 2015. You think 6 more games of Green may have affected his stats just a touch...and they were STILL better in most areas.
Kegeratorz
Well-hung member
Exactly why he should be happy to be employed. He thought he was smarter then then everyone and failed miserably, you need to know the temperature of the room and adapt to be successful. I will say now that we are stuck with him I hope having to hire an OC with give him much needed humility, everyone needs it at times.
Brownsfan
Continuity Please!
Seriously, DF, are you trying to make Andy Dalton into a Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers? He is a good quarterback, but hardly epic. Dalton made a significant jump under Hue (from a 83.5 to a 106.3 passer rating), but he is hardly a top quarterback in the league. And are you saying that the Bengals' offense was as good in 2016 and 2017 as it was in 2015?
Brownsfan
Continuity Please!
Oh, I am sure that he prefers to be employed than unemployed. Fortunately, he had an owner who understood the situation that he was put into (some of it needlessly) by Sashi Brown and decided that in the interest of continuity and stability that he should be given a chance to work with a competent GM like John Dorsey.
So far, it looks to be working. It is good that he got the OC he wanted to go with the DC he was able to hire last year. If he can't be successful with Todd Haley and Gregg Williams as his coordinators and with Dorsey providing the players, he needs to be gone. It seems that he is finally in an ideal situation with all he needs to win. If he can't win now, there can be no excuses.