I'm seriously digging Dorsey's approach so far | Page 10 |

I'm seriously digging Dorsey's approach so far

What we had last year was a mixture of some really good players and a lot of great guys with practice squad level talent. On offense, we had a couple of really good players like Joel Bitonio and Kevin Zeitler. Those guys are not backups in any league. David Njoku didn't start last year, but he likely will this year. On Defense, Myles Garrett would start on any team in the league and Emmanuel Ogbah and Jamie Collins would start on most. Larry Ogunjobi is an incredibly promising prospect that in my opinion would start on most 4-3 defenses. None of those guys are backups in any sense of the word. And there were others who performed well such as Christian Kirksey, Joe Schobert and J.C. Tretter and would likely start on most NFL teams.

As I have said before, Sashi didn't leave the team devoid of talent. He drafted well, generally, and he certainly left the team with more good young talent than the over-the-hill gang he inherited. The problem with Sashi was that he got rid of a number of the over-the-hill gang members associated with prior regimes prematurely and replaced them with available talent (which was largely practice squad level) to fill in around the relatively good players he either inherited or acquired. And then finally, as if to drive home a point, he forced the starting of a rookie quarterback who was simply not ready to start by limiting the QB room to Kizer, Kessler and Hogan. It was a prescription for disaster despite his good work in acquiring and drafting some relatively good talent.

Dorsey has largely reversed the problem already with the acquisition and drafting of additional good young players and some good depth that essentially fills out the team and will essentially rid us of most of the practice squad level talent. Most of our starters this year are easily penciled in. A number of others will be determined in training camp. The result will be a significant upgrade in the both the remaining starters and the depth.

I think we have a chance of being pretty good this year.
Yes we had some starters. But...we needed to bring more in because we won one game in 32 tries.
Er have a qb now. The media wouldn't know what to do with it because they're new to it.
Yes the new guys are great but let me please see it in a game that it works . I am only a Browns fan.
 
I'm confident Dorsey and co. have righted the ship, but that doesn't mean anything until we see this group play some games. Real games that count.

Last season we had an undefeated pre-season and it didn't mean jack. ;)
 
I'm confident Dorsey and co. have righted the ship, but that doesn't mean anything until we see this group play some games. Real games that count.

Last season we had an undefeated pre-season and it didn't mean jack. ;)

Well, we can't win real games that count until we play them. It doesn't mean that in the meantime we must view the improvement of talent with disdain. I don't think it is justified to view the addition of players like Tyrod Taylor, Carlos Hyde, Jarvis Landry and Damarious Randall in that manner. I think it is pretty obvious that we can be assured that adding players like those will only improve the team.

As for the undefeated pre-season, it could be argued that we had a better team in the preseason than we had in the regular season.
 
Yeah, kinda kills the idea of a board if you decide we can't talk about the roster until we've played games (!).

I have to think some QBs who left the Cleveland job for Tyrod Taylor will be getting envious real soon. The cockpit is looking real solid from OL to RB to targets.

I think the line settles as Corbett, Bitonio, Tretter, Zeitler, Hubbard, and I think it'll be really good. Then the weapons are Flash, Juice, the Chief, Duke, Carlos, Chubb, Coleman, and Callaway. That's just bursting with possibilities, man. Playmakers out the ass.

I don't see that cockpit in D.C. or SF.
 
It's not disdain just if's.

If Hyde can stay healthy. If Coleman can catch. If Njoku improves overall. If every last rookie pans out. If Duke's contract gets settled will he play up to the contract he's asking for?

It doesn't kill the board either whether you're throwing rainbows and sunshine or not.

I like Njoku, but all I hear is how he can jump and run. Not how well he picks the ball out of the air or blocks like a bad ass. Further a few years ago Dawgfan's favorite bust, and a few others bte, were raving about mother fucking Mingo putting on weight. They could see it by God! Do you know why??!!! Because somebody told them and they bought it. They didn't look at the guy and judge for themselves because if they did they would've seen he was exactly the same as he was out of college. Set the edge my ass!

I'm not just going to buy the company line bull shit. If somebody says a player is this or that then I'll watch for it and respond with what I am seeing.

I know what I've seen from Gordon and Juice. They can play.

I know what I've seen from Coleman and he can't. Njoku improved late, but not enough to say he can be trusted. He needs to show continued improvement.

I have no faith in Coleman, but because he was a high pick he'll get more un-earned opportunities. Like Hue for that matter.

I hear Callaway has impressed. I want to see it. I heard Chubb was a little rough catching the ball too. Not to mention not every single rookie we picked will be a player. Some will get cut. Some of last year's rookies will get cut. But we all have to wait and see.
 
I was such a huge Coleman fan coming out, watched a lot of his tape, it'll take more than two injury shortened seasons to let go of that. Tough, physical receiver with crazy measurables and production. It's very possible that this is his Agholor year but with way more upside.

If not... Callaway. Similar guy minus the 41" vert, but a little faster. When you're as fast as either, you're splitting hairs.
 
I like Njoku, but all I hear is how he can jump and run. Not how well he picks the ball out of the air or blocks like a bad ass. Further a few years ago Dawgfan's favorite bust, and a few others bte, were raving about mother fucking Mingo putting on weight. They could see it by God! Do you know why??!!! Because somebody told them and they bought it. They didn't look at the guy and judge for themselves because if they did they would've seen he was exactly the same as he was out of college. Set the edge my ass!

Just an FYI, Mingo did pretty good in NE and yes, he was setting the edge.

Now, that still doesn't justify his draft position, but I still wonder how much of that was the constant turnover of coaches. Same for a lot of the past draft picks. Without the same system for more than 1 year, they were set up to fail.
 
I've read so many good analysts looking at last year's strong TE class and then saying they think Njoku will be the true star of the group. He's nutty fast and athletic for his size.

As of right now, I just don't put a cap on how this season could go. We have good players all over the field on both sides of the ball, in many cases potentially great ones.
 
Just an FYI, Mingo did pretty good in NE and yes, he was setting the edge.

Now, that still doesn't justify his draft position, but I still wonder how much of that was the constant turnover of coaches. Same for a lot of the past draft picks. Without the same system for more than 1 year, they were set up to fail.

Mingo turned to be a situational pass rusher specialist. Well. Not that special. Completely wasted pick.
 
Mingo turned to be a situational pass rusher specialist. Well. Not that special. Completely wasted pick.

AGain, not disagreeing at all. I think that is what keeps getting lost. I am just more curious as to how much was due to ever changing systems and how much was due to lack of ability. He was undersized for the position (too light), but seems to have filled out a little lately. Wonder if a better and more continuous system might have seen him develop better....that's all.
 
It's not disdain just if's.

"Ifs" are fine Chief, but that isn't what you said. What you said was: "doesn't mean anything" and "doesn't mean jack."

Sounded like disdain to me.

And even after you say it was "ifs" in this post, in your next breath you bring up Mingo as if that has any thing to do with anything. What does Dorsey's football knowledge have to do with Banner's?

Yeah, you want to be shown. Okay, by the by, and you will find out with the rest of us.

Again, I have no problem with wanting to be shown and asking questions. I am right there with you on that. But questions can go either way.

And you're back on a tear about about not buying the company line BS.

That isn't questions. It's disdain. Your not giving Dorsey a chance because Banner's choice for an edge rusher didn't pan out. How logical is that?

Again, disdain.

In the meantime, why don't you take a look at what happened in KC and consider the possibilities.
 
Truth: Dorsey inherited a 2-14 team and remade the so fast nobody can remember how recently they were that bad.

Until I see otherwise, I see that as a distinct possibility. He's actually done way more with the Browns, had way more assets. Hell, we're still fat in the wallet, hosting Kendricks.

Not sure I get that one with two pricey vets and a Pro Bowler all returning. Like Sobo, I'd be looking at Hankins. But hell, bring'em all in, Big John.

(Kendricks brother is a Viking, one of the three teams he's visiting. I expect he'll land there.)
 
I was showing how some here buy the BS and was using Mingo as the example. And this year we are hearing things that have yet to be confirmed, but some will roll with it without looking into it.

I get it. You want to pump sunshine. I prefer looking to confirm your sunshine first so it can shine on my dusty ass awhile.
 
Not big enough for its own thread yet... but now that he left Minnesota, there's a growing sense that Kendricks will be a Brown. Inside buzz is the Browns are the most interested and also the best fit. I'm sure it doesn't hurt that they can back up their interest with bucks.

He's a really good player, even though all three starters return. As Dorsey put it, we're not in a position yet to stop adding good players.

Would add to an epic offseason that's as good as or better than any I've ever seen.
 
but who's he? And what has he done? And is he a game changer? Is he at least better than the guys on our team?

One of the reasons, 2 cents, why I feel Collins could be the surprise vet cut of 2018 (if you don't count the Shelton trade, which was decently surprising). He's expensive, and most importantly, he's a Sashi signing, not a Dorsey signing.

He better be good and durable, vs mediocre and oft injured.

PFF

1 Bobby Wagner SEA 54 96.7 89.9 93.5 74.2 1,022 389 577 56 A
2 Lavonte David TB 54 94.2 93.4 87.0 65.8 814 340 406 68 A
3 Luke Kuechly CAR 59 93.9 92.0 87.4 71.1 973 312 600 62 A
4 Reuben Foster SF 56 90.7 90.9 82.7 68.0 553 235 279 39 A
5 Telvin Smith Sr. JAX 50 90.5 94.1 80.5 52.7 1,065 401 629 35 A
6 Deion Jones ATL 45 89.6 47.0 94.8 52.7 1,148 418 715 15 A
7 Sean Lee DAL 50 88.9 90.8 80.6 55.6 622 219 376 27 A
8 Demario Davis NO 0 87.3 87.7 79.7 68.0 1,115 465 504 146 A

9 Mychal Kendricks PHI 0 86.0 87.4 76.8 68.5 726 283 384 59 A
10 Avery Williamson NYJ 54 85.5 90.1 66.1 65.7 742 350 333 60 A
11 NaVorro Bowman OAK 0 84.8 85.4 77.3 69.8 643 246 357 40 A
12 Vontaze Burfict CIN 55 84.7 85.8 78.2 70.9 589 241 315 33 A
12 Ryan Shazier PIT 50 84.7 75.7 84.6 70.4 671 254 364 53 RPUP
12 Danny Trevathan CHI 59 84.7 48.0 87.5 73.5 714 281 378 55 A
15 Paul Posluszny JAX 0 84.0 77.2 83.7 64.4 520 265 238 17 A
16 Myles Jack JAX 44 83.4 73.4 85.3 60.9 1,223 446 691 86 A
17 Nick Kwiatkoski CHI 44 82.3 79.0 79.6 69.8 382 136 214 32 A
18 K.J. Wright SEA 50 82.2 79.8 80.8 52.7 956 367 527 63 A
19 Jake Ryan GB 47 82.1 81.0 77.2 69.4 506 278 212 16 A
20 Anthony Hitchens KC 53 80.8 83.1 73.2 58.3 544 224 291 29 A
21 Zach Cunningham HST 41 80.6 82.7 75.1 51.8 812 310 406 96 A
21 Nigel Bradham PHI 53 80.6 46.8 86.5 58.2 1,125 345 700 80 A
23 Blake Martinez GB 50 80.2 89.7 44.0 51.3 978 434 468 76 A
24 Benardrick McKinney HST 55 79.7 88.5 51.9 44.8 959 387 343 229 A
25 Tahir Whitehead OAK 59 79.6 87.6 45.5 53.4 950 411 461 78 A
26 Reggie Ragland KC 59 78.9 83.9 54.1 56.7 369 209 154 6 A
27 Manti Te'o NO 51 78.8 69.8 80.3 55.4 621 304 274 43 A
28 Wesley Woodyard TEN 59 78.6 86.7 44.3 51.3 1,153 410 597 146 A
28 De'Vondre Campbell ATL 59 78.6 48.6 80.7 70.7 1,056 403 559 94 A
30 Shaq Thompson CAR 54 77.5 82.5 43.8 74.2 684 290 328 66 A
30 Thomas Davis CAR 58 77.5 74.2 74.8 72.0 849 295 429 125 A

32 Joe Schobert CLV 53 77.4 81.6 70.7 48.2 1,068 460 472 136 A
33 Derrick Johnson OAK 56 77.3 39.9 86.0 49.4 893 344 512 37 A
34 Todd Davis DEN 51 77.1 86.1 45.5 61.6 520 264 236 20 A
35 C.J. Mosley BLT 57 75.7 46.6 79.9 68.4 1,077 411 587 79 A
36 Zach Vigil WAS 56 75.4 74.2 74.2 51.2 394 192 176 26 A
37 Eric Kendricks MIN 54 75.1 47.8 79.8 52.7 1,099 402 623 74 A
38 Jon Bostic PIT 51 74.9 84.0 43.5 54.7 914 395 464 55 A
39 Craig Robertson NO 52 74.6 68.9 76.0 52.6 921 340 487 94 A
40 Patrick Onwuasor BLT 48 73.2 80.3 45.9 58.4 647 331 281 35 A
41 Matt Milano BUF 58 72.9 74.5 63.1 58.6 449 185 232 32 A
42 Jaylon Smith DAL 54 71.7 37.8 80.8 71.9 575 254 295 26 A
43 Preston Brown CIN 52 71.6 71.5 70.4 50.6 1,157 472 627 58 A
44 Anthony Barr MIN 55 71.4 49.3 69.9 74.9 1,050 383 551 116 A
45 Mark Barron LAR 26 71.2 44.9 77.5 53.0 896 350 512 34 A
45 Vince Williams PIT 98 71.2 44.0 70.1 76.2 785 383 321 81 A
47 Jatavis Brown LAC 57 70.8 65.7 71.4 59.9 504 177 303 24 A
48 Karlos Dansby ARZ 0 68.2 66.5 54.5 69.4 921 361 491 70 A
49 Kwon Alexander TB 58 68.0 40.6 76.4 71.2 717 296 375 46 A
50 Zach Brown WAS 53 61.8 87.7 33.4 72.0 834 324 446 64 A
51 Michael Wilhoite SEA 0 61.3 42.5 76.0 60.4 306 200 87 19 A

52 Christian Kirksey CLV 58 59.6 69.7 55.3 52.2 1,068 460 467 141 A
53 Brandon Marshall DEN 54 54.6 66.2 45.4 69.9 910 394 456 60 A
54 Marquis Flowers NE 59 53.5 43.9 78.4 44.8 361 78 178 105 A
55 Nicholas Morrow OAK 50 48.0 53.5 47.6 55.6 553 202 325 26 A
56 Eli Harold SF 57 47.7 55.0 49.6 50.4 452 237 109 106 A
57 Kyle Van Noy NE 53 47.6 43.5 71.9 47.8 894 317 350 227 A
58 Martrell Spaight WAS 50 47.4 74.2 42.4 51.9 414 182 211 21 A
59 Kelvin Sheppard NYG 0 46.5 41.4 71.0 51.8 386 164 203 19 A
61 Jarrad Davis DET 40 46.1 83.4 34.3 71.2 828 357 409 62 A
62 Vincent Rey CIN 57 45.7 41.7 62.1 56.8 607 277 307 23 A
63 Damien Wilson DAL 57 45.5 76.2 39.6 58.1 321 148 136 37 A
64 Christian Jones DET 52 45.3 55.0 45.8 53.5 623 261 316 46 A

66 James Burgess Jr. CLV 52 43.9 67.6 42.5 48.2 646 276 263 107 A
67 Lawrence Timmons MIA 0 43.2 37.1 66.7 66.0 794 363 366 66 A
68 B.J. Goodson NYG 93 42.5 76.0 38.4 49.9 374 134 210 30 A
69 Elandon Roberts NE 52 41.6 40.0 47.9 54.1 670 343 258 69 A
70 Brock Coyle SF 50 41.3 43.5 43.2 54.1 646 305 296 45 A
71 Cory James OAK 0 40.8 40.7 44.0 63.5 455 206 229 20 A
72 Kendell Beckwith TB 51 40.5 41.6 65.6 42.9 847 343 327 178 A
73 Ray-Ray Armstrong NYG 55 39.7 70.5 37.4 62.4 427 213 202 12 A
74 Ramon Humber BUF 50 39.2 46.9 38.3 61.0 629 257 318 54 A
75 Kiko Alonso MIA 47 38.9 62.4 35.5 68.2 1,007 407 551 50 A
75 Alec Ogletree NYG 52 38.9 35.9 39.1 78.5 994 377 513 104 A
77 Calvin Munson NYG 46 38.3 39.1 42.2 55.0 388 201 165 22 A
78 Deone Bucannon ARZ 20 37.9 42.7 38.9 55.5 704 259 385 61 A
79 Hayes Pullard LAC 50 37.2 43.8 37.6 62.6 474 229 237 8 A
80 A.J. Klein NO 53 36.8 32.3 60.0 56.1 664 242 346 76 A
81 Jonathan Casillas NYG 0 36.1 32.1 49.0 52.9 457 216 203 38 A

82 Jamie Collins Sr. CLV 51 35.9 44.7 36.4 49.1 330 141 111 78 A
83 Antonio Morrison IND 44 35.8 36.3 42.8 51.7 813 431 349 33 A
84 Nick Vigil CIN 59 35.1 32.7 44.1 52.3 759 316 392 51 A
85 Jordan Evans CIN 50 35.0 42.5 34.3 61.8 311 137 158 16 A
86 Darron Lee NYJ 58 34.9 40.1 36.8 71.7 1,025 436 528 61 A
 
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