MEGATHREADmania XXX

[AttackOffense]

I agree that losing those guys would hurt and is a big price to pay right now. However, what I'm dreading now is that 1. With the way the season is going we're going to finish pretty piss poor which will result in another blowup and 2. That the older guys like Mack will choose to leave because of the constant turnover. Mack is going to have the option to void the final 3 years of his contract after this season and right now I'm expecting him to do it.

It's looking like we won't have to worry about trading anything for a top 3 pick anyway.

I think Mack and Gipson are gone after this season. Browns are always in re-build mode. That's why you need to try and win every year, because these 3 and 5 year plans never work out, too much changes every year.

 

[AttackOffense]

will they take alex mack, justin gilbert, and coach o'neal for their 1st rd pick?

Bortles is beginning to get it. Jacksonville has done some dumb things, but they also have made some good picks. They need help on defense, for sure.

 

[DawgFan]

Bortles is beginning to get it. Jacksonville has done some dumb things, but they also have made some good picks. They need help on defense, for sure.

I wanted Bortles....but come on...he has 5 INT's in his last 3 games, still is below 56% completion rate....and only 2 games all year with above an 84 QB rating. He is still FAR from developed. If he were on the Browns...half this board would be crucifying him.

 

[AttackOffense]

I wanted Bortles....but come on...he has 5 INT's in his last 3 games, still is below 56% completion rate....and only 2 games all year with above an 84 QB rating. He is still FAR from developed. If he were on the Browns...half this board would be crucifying him.

Bortles has plenty of work to do but, again, I put more stock in watching players play than statistics and I see improvement from Bortles. just like I see it from Manziel.

 

[Greythan]

If XXXX were on the Browns...half this board would be crucifying him.

You can just change the "XXXX" to literally any name. Hell, Joe Thomas has been crucified. Again, my advice? Don't feed the trolls Dawg. It makes the board much more enjoyable when they are living on a minimalist diet.

 

[Brownsfan1956]

Manziel is best brown qb ever. Him and jim brown are going be biggest stars in nfl history

We are about to legalize weed here in Ohio, can I please get the name of your supplier? Thanks in advance!

 

[Enigmatic Evil]

Meh, I wanted us to draft Bortles and nothing would have changed in the long run. We still would have tried to bring him along slowly and there would be those wondering why that is.

 

[nickers]

We are about to legalize weed here in Ohio, can I please get the name of your supplier? Thanks in advance!

I want to know too

 

[Shep]

A. Manziel had a great scrimmage and played better than McCown from that point on.
B. He's 1-0, 22, and looked great in that game.
C. The Browns seriously seem to not wanna play him. Why? Who knows. Nobody knows. Without an answer, we just look like fucktards.

I think we can agree on A through C. Nobody's really a hater or lover of Josh McCown. He's just a guy playing quarterback for a team going nowhere and clearly not our guy for the long haul. It makes the season unbearable.

I haven't felt so disinterested since Couch got hurt and some right guard played quarterback.

 

[brownsdownunder]

I agree that losing those guys would hurt and is a big price to pay right now. However, what I'm dreading now is that 1. With the way the season is going we're going to finish pretty piss poor which will result in another blowup and 2. That the older guys like Mack will choose to leave because of the constant turnover. Mack is going to have the option to void the final 3 years of his contract after this season and right now I'm expecting him to do it.

It's looking like we won't have to worry about trading anything for a top 3 pick anyway.

Fuck Mack. He can go if he wants. He won't leave though. His play has declined, he's fresh off a broken leg and he's about to turn 30. He's not getting a $45M deal anywhere else. Frankly, we'd be list to let him walk and start Cam Irving at center. He's best in the middle anyway, and he'll be fine after another year of development.

Losing Mack's contract gives us the chance to retain guys like Benjamin, Barnidge and probably still sign a pretty good player in free agency.

Haden would hurt, although Haden didn't look like Haden so far this year. None the less, I wouldn't want to lose that dude.

Unfortunately, I think you're right, we're looking at a top five pick. Personally, I'd rather that go towards a pass rusher either, on the interior or linebacker, than towards a quarterback. Man, if we could get Joey Bosa. Orchard, Cooper, Shelton, Bosa, Kruger sounds tasty with three of them in their second year. If this was my team, McCown plays the rest of the year (Maybe Johnny gets to mop up late) and we see how we go next season - Manziel in his second year in the system, his third training camp, a better team around him (Fingers crossed for Gordon so hard they might break) sounds like a recipe for success, to me.

Oh, and on MTT's comment, it doesn't matter what Manziel does - Otto Graham is the greatest Browns quarterback of all time, and nobody will ever beat what he did. He was a straight up pimp. All that motherfucker did was win. I don't think he ever knew what a loss was.

 

[Shep]

Agree with BDU 100%. Good teams find centers to plug in all over the draft, especially ZB teams. I don't get the Mack fixation, never did. Having the best center in football means about as much as having the best RG... and Mack hasn't been anywhere near the best anyway.

The two dominant QBs right now are Brady and Rodgers. Neither has a superstar WR. How are those teams doing? I'm in Canada, so somebody catch me up.

 

[next2nothing]

Fuck Mack. He can go if he wants. He won't leave though. His play has declined, he's fresh off a broken leg and he's about to turn 30. He's not getting a $45M deal anywhere else. Frankly, we'd be list to let him walk and start Cam Irving at center. He's best in the middle anyway, and he'll be fine after another year of development.

Losing Mack's contract gives us the chance to retain guys like Benjamin, Barnidge and probably still sign a pretty good player in free agency.

Haden would hurt, although Haden didn't look like Haden so far this year. None the less, I wouldn't want to lose that dude.

Unfortunately, I think you're right, we're looking at a top five pick. Personally, I'd rather that go towards a pass rusher either, on the interior or linebacker, than towards a quarterback. Man, if we could get Joey Bosa. Orchard, Cooper, Shelton, Bosa, Kruger sounds tasty with three of them in their second year. If this was my team, McCown plays the rest of the year (Maybe Johnny gets to mop up late) and we see how we go next season - Manziel in his second year in the system, his third training camp, a better team around him (Fingers crossed for Gordon so hard they might break) sounds like a recipe for success, to me.

Oh, and on MTT's comment, it doesn't matter what Manziel does - Otto Graham is the greatest Browns quarterback of all time, and nobody will ever beat what he did. He was a straight up pimp. All that motherfucker did was win. I don't think he ever knew what a loss was.

Haha, I fucking forgot Erving was even on the team. I don't know if that's sadder on my part or the teams part.

I hope that they start giving Bibbs some time because while Barnidge has been tearing it up he's not long for the NFL. Need to have a prospect behind him.

Honestly... I just want to see us get an IMPACT player. Idc if he plays O or D. Get me a guy who can make a legit impact on the game.

 

[brownsdownunder]

Annoying is New England - Tom Brady is going off, and they're starting two rookie guards they got in the fucking fourth round. - Correction, only one was found in the fourth, the other fourth round pick lost out to an undrafted free agent they've developed on the practice squad for the last two seasons.

I'm with Shep, great teams find line talent a little later. #19 was way too high for a guard or center, but oh well.

I'd like to see Bibbs too, but Barnidge is just playing too well and we don't run a lot of multiple set tight ends. Dray's use is still blocking, and Mr. Bibbs, like most young players, struggled there. I expect we'll see more of that kid next season, and perhaps Barnidge will walk and we'll outright start Bibbs.

If the Browns roll with Johnny, I'd like to see Bibbs come in immediately. Johnny has chemistry with him, and we've got to get away from this fucking blocking. Tight ends are better used stretching the field anyway. Why try block a linebacker when you can make him run his ass down the field following an athletic tight end? Even a decoy route is better than a block, in my opinion. Takes away their mismatch, give it to us.

I still disagree with Shep on receiver. Rodgers and Brady might not need them, but I'd rather have one until we find ourselves a Brady or Rodgers. I get a fucking hard on thinking about my vision of 2016 - Manziel, Gordon, Benjamin, a young stud WR and Barnidge/Bibbs. That's a fucking offense. That shit alone WILL make the ground game work because you cannot play the run with those motherfuckers lining up, you'll get burned every single time.

 

[brownsdownunder]

Oh, and this is off topic, but Malcom Johnson's run blocking has really improved the last two weeks. The kid has made some really nice blocks after struggling early. I tip my hat to him. Hopefully his role will start to expand a little.

 

[Brownsfan]

I wanted Bortles....but come on...he has 5 INT's in his last 3 games, still is below 56% completion rate....and only 2 games all year with above an 84 QB rating. He is still FAR from developed. If he were on the Browns...half this board would be crucifying him.

Not a chance. If he was here, he wouldn't be starting. We'd find a journeyman quarterback like Hoyer or McCown to play in front of him. Half the board might be crucifying him, but it wouldn't be because of interceptions because he wouldn't be playing. And half of us would be begging for a chance to see if he could be great just like we are currently begging for a chance to see if Manziel can be great.

 

[AttackOffense]

Agree with BDU 100%. Good teams find centers to plug in all over the draft, especially ZB teams. I don't get the Mack fixation, never did. Having the best center in football means about as much as having the best RG... and Mack hasn't been anywhere near the best anyway.

The two dominant QBs right now are Brady and Rodgers. Neither has a superstar WR. How are those teams doing? I'm in Canada, so somebody catch me up.

Here we go again. You need really good players everywhere, including the center and wide receiver positions.

Guys like WR Cobb and WR/TE Nelson for Green Bay and WR Edelman and WR/TE Gronkowski for New England are elite players.

 

[legerdemain]

Here we go again. You need really good players everywhere, including the center and wide receiver positions.

Guys like WR Cobb and WR/TE Nelson for Green Bay and WR Edelman and WR/TE Gronkowski for New England are elite players.

Cobb was drafted 2nd round 64th overall, Edelman was drafted in like 8th round. Point people are making is that with great QB's, these receivers have achieved elite status (riding on the coattails of their QB's). Other example of top NFL team without top receivers is Seattle. I think people have a point. One could say these are perhaps mitigating factors for Farmers not drafting a WR high in the draft. The pattern of not playing high draft picks also suggests that Browns coaching staff my not be developing players, not so much about Farmer's ineptitude. That's what I strongly suspect. I think the problem is Pett.

 

[brownsdownunder]

I don't think anyone is overly weak at wide receiver, and the positive impact these guys have is noticeable.

Green Bay - Jordan Nelson was selected 36th overall. Randall Cobb was selected 64th overall. Devante Adams selected 53rd overall.

Green Bay's wide receiver situation will always be one of the most bizarre examples of not having receivers that I've ever seen. They've selected three receivers in the second round. That's an incredible investment. They've also got a 2nd round pick at running back, a 3rd round pick at tight end and a 3x pro-bowler at FB.

Aaron Rodgers is also a hall of fame quarterback, or he will be. Even though they have remarkable investment at the receiver positions, at skill positions across the board, Rodgers could get away with less. They just don't want him to, as he doesn't want to do so. He was very public with his desire for Cobb and Nelson to be resigned, which they were to 4 year-$40M and 4 year-$39M contracts respectively. They're not 2nd round picks anymore, they're $10M per-season superstars, and you don't give guys that kind of money if they're expendable.

New England - I always hate the comparisons to New England's receiver group. By now, everyone should be well aware of the fact that Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback of all time and Bill Belichick one of the greatest coaches of all time, and the greatest head coach of the modern era. What they need at wide receiver is vastly different to what everyone else needs at wide receiver. Nobody else has a Tom Brady, nobody else has ever had a Tom Brady. If we start trying to build this team like we've got Tom Brady, the team WILL fail.

With that said, they have the best tight end of the modern era. That's high praise given some of the names that have been running around, but Gronk in his prime is the most lethal tight end in a long, long time. He's even better than Tony Gonzalez. Almost 25% of his receptions this season have gone for touchdowns. Julian Edelman is also elite. Who cares where he was drafted. The guy runs the most crisp routes in the NFL, he catches absolutely everything, he's a fantastic athlete and his intelligence is off the charts - nobody navigates zones better than Edelman, he has made a living of finding space for Brady to hit him. Their cupboard is not bare, in spite of having a guy like Brady. Edelman isn't a late round pick anymore, he's on a 4 year-$19M contract, and Gronk is on a 6 year-$54M contract, the largest for a tight end ever at the time of signing. Also note, I'll HAPPILY take either guy for Cleveland.

Seattle - Seattle now has Jimmy Graham, one of the best tight ends in the game, and he cost them a first round pick. They've also got Tyler Lockett, selected 69th overall. That's on top of already having an undrafted gem in Doug Baldwin, who is an amazing receiver - the Seattle times just wrote that he leads the NFL with 84 consecutive passes without a drop. He himself is on a 3 year-$13M deal that runs out next season, and he's going to make some pretty cash for what he's capable of.

The big salvation for Seattle is also their brilliance on offense. Obviously, they have a remarkable rushing offense, and Russell Wilson has the best legs of any quarterback in the NFL (I think he's overtaken Mike Vick, who still might give him a run for his money (Pun intended)). Their offense is also faltering. Without that elite defense in place, they've not been as good as they once were.

What is worth noting is that these are the three best examples of not having wide receivers in the entire NFL (Minus Cleveland) and they're all pretty weak examples. These are not teams that lack talent, they have it in abundance. Nobody denies that having a great quarterback is your greatest asset in terms of generating offense, but the talent that sounds the quarterback in itself makes up much more than people give credit for. It's understandable, QB is the glamour position, and everyone else is an afterthought - until they're not.

We seem to be overly strict on our offensive weapons. It's unusual after we watched Cameron and Gordon amass 4,000 yards and 20+ touchdowns of offense with Weeden, Campbell and Hoyer all rotating at quarterback. We're currently watching the difference that a healthy Travis Benjamin makes. This weekend we'll be playing a team with two first round picks and a late round gem (Who is quickly establishing himself as one of the best slots in the NFL) and that's an intimidating moment for us. Look at what Derek Carr is doing with Amari Cooper, and Carr is very open with his satisfaction for what an acquisition like Cooper is doing for the team. Brian Hoyer is having a blast with DeAndre Hopkins. The list is almost endless, there are receivers going off everywhere.

Personally, I hope like all hell we get Gordon back as what he was. I'm confused by anyone who didn't notice the impact he had. I hope we can retain Benjamin if he's going to keep playing the way he is. I'd love to see a young stud join those two guys. Imagine trying to contain Travis Benjamin when you've got Josh Gordon and another high end receiver to worry about? Fuck that. I'd hate trying to contain that.

 

[Greythan]

Annoying is New England - Tom Brady is going off, and they're starting two rookie guards they got in the fucking fourth round. - Correction, only one was found in the fourth, the other fourth round pick lost out to an undrafted free agent they've developed on the practice squad for the last two seasons.

Bad example. Take Tom Brady off that football team and they'd be struggling just like anyone else with a shitty, young OL.

Brady makes every single guy on that offense better than he'd be anywhere else. This notion that somehow the 7,300 no-name guys that have cycled through that offense over the past 10+ years have been elite is beyond me. There's one guy that makes that thing work; one guy and a great coach.

That said, I hated the Erving pick.

 

[AttackOffense]

Cobb was drafted 2nd round 64th overall, Edelman was drafted in like 8th round. Point people are making is that with great QB's, these receivers have achieved elite status (riding on the coattails of their QB's). Other example of top NFL team without top receivers is Seattle. I think people have a point. One could say these are perhaps mitigating factors for Farmers not drafting a WR high in the draft. The pattern of not playing high draft picks also suggests that Browns coaching staff my not be developing players, not so much about Farmer's ineptitude. That's what I strongly suspect. I think the problem is Pett.

So what that Cobb was taken in the second round! Anybody who watched SEC football as much as I do knew the kid was the most exciting player in the SEC for two years and it wasn't even close. SEC fans talked a lot about him. He played in obscurity for a bad Kentucky team with a mediocre QB but he himself was electric. NFL execs make mistakes all the time and Cobb definitely should have been a first round pick. Great player in college. Great player in the pros.