MEGATHREADmania XXX | Page 14 | Barking Hard

MEGATHREADmania XXX

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I read that article just an hour ago BPP.

IMO, Manziel will never be an NFL caliber QB. Ever.

The Browns need to either;

1) Jettison this guy before next season starts.

or

2) Start him the rest of the year so there are no more questions about him.

This organization can't go into next off-season with people inside the FO wanting to "see" about Johnny.
 
I will admit that part of the article really caught me off guard.

I thought that the whole manziel only doing scout team was a shannahan thing.

I didn't know Pettine kept that shit going even though it was adamantly pegged as an issue.

Maybe all teams do it that way.. but for some reason I thought the 3rd string runs scout team.. and the 2nd string runs with the second team offense.

But instead they put manziel on scout.. and who knows with Austin Davis... maybe they have him playing scout team safety like shaw.

The other part that pissed me off is when they said Pettine is refusing to start certain players.. not due to their ability, but due to his personal feelings on them, and whether or not he trusts them.

It also pointed out Pettine clamored for Gilbert and Shelton.. but gave up on gilbert early.. once again not due to his ability, but due to his Character flaws.

The problem is that we really don't really know much of what is going on inside. But there seems to be enough leaking out with such a bad smell that we are left wondering about the source of the smell. Last year, I thought Shanahan was the bad apple. Now I am not so sure. Is it possible that he was the only good apple of the bunch?

Something certainly seems wrong. One of my questions is: can we trust Adkins?

Others are: how long will it be before the "truth" is confirmed of discredited? Is it really possible that both Farmer and Pettine are lying through their teeth: indicating perfect harmony in public while attempting to plant daggers in each other's heart privately? If so, how long will it be before the situation is resolved? How will it be resolved? Will it ever be resolved? Is it fair to ask if the Browns will ever be competitive on the field?
 
I read that article just an hour ago BPP.

IMO, Manziel will never be an NFL caliber QB. Ever.

The Browns need to either;

1) Jettison this guy before next season starts.

or

2) Start him the rest of the year so there are no more questions about him.

This organization can't go into next off-season with people inside the FO wanting to "see" about Johnny.

Actually, it is quite possible that the organization will go into the off-season with people inside the FO wanting to "see" about Johnny.

All that has to happen if for Pettine to continue to play McCown.
 
I feel that it's not "fair" to ask when:
-we're relying on a journeyman at QB
-will not give our first round QB a decent shot for whatever reason.
-have inadequate skill position talent
-underachieving defence
and most importantly
- fans are frustrated and emotion is getting in the way of rationality. But this is the fan condition.

but then again... maybe that just provides the answer "yes" to your question Cliff. Will it ever be resolved... I don't believe it will be with this regime.

TIME and again. We have seen the media perpetuate drama and lies for the sake of internet hits and time and again this fanbase has chowed down on the bullshit. I wish we could detach ourselves from agenda and take an objective look at the situation. Our offense is not good. Josh McCown is having statistically his best season but in spite of that, the team ON THE FIELD cannot score points, and is not winning. Manziel, statistically, is very mediocre. ON THE FIELD. He has not looked that great, but yet we are so despondent that it is encouraging none the less.

Manziel has accrued 1/3 the requisite starts to meet the minimum of the Quinn Rule, but I'm starting to wonder if I haven't seen enough already to know what others have concluded when they question if he can start in the NFL. Maybe the head coach has made the same determination... but that's grounds for his being fired. Why fire Pettine when the next regime is likely to make the same determination and bring in their own prospect, creating another meaningless competition, continuing to stifle the supposed greatness of Johnny Football...

It's a ridiculous cycle beginning to repeat itself but there is precipitation of necessity here... I feel like channeling Shep in saying when you know you do not have a QB, you need to find one.
 
Actually, it is quite possible that the organization will go into the off-season with people inside the FO wanting to "see" about Johnny.

All that has to happen if for Pettine to continue to play McCown.

Hence why I said they need to come to a decision on either side.

Doesn't really matter because I'd bet $ that this regime is all but over with.
 
The 2014 draft looms large in the rear view mirror at this point.

The Browns pass on very tempting impact players by trading out of the 4th pick which Buffalo's uses to draft Watkins. Still a controversial move for many, the stockpiling of another first rounder in 2015 at least makes this an understandable if not shrewd trade.

The Browns burn a 5th round pick in a trade-up of one slot with the Vikings and select Gilbert.

Later, the Eagles are the on the clock at 22; the Browns next to pick at 26. Only one QB has been selected thus far (Bortles) and the big 3 of Manziel, Bridgewater, and Carr remain on the board. Free falling some if you will. The Browns burn the 85th pick (a third rounder) to move up to 22 and select Manziel.

I know we beat this to death in the past, but in retrospect its a fascinating chain of events. Clearly, the Browns who were in desperate need of a QBOTF, were not convinced that any of "the 3" were strong prospects. If they had been, they would have taken one of them with the Gilbert pick. Instead, they watched all 3 fall another, what, 14 slots before they acted. Any QB needy team who had conviction for any of the 3 could have jumped them. If you had high conviction, there's no way a team in the Browns situation allows that risk to persist all the way down to the 22nd pick. Its illogical.

If you'll buy the logic so far, it gets weirder in my view.

Bridgewater came into the draft as the most NFL ready prospect. He's gone on to pretty much live up to that "floor" with his play thus far. Some may not see Bridgewater as ascending to a top 10 QB but there's no doubt he's played pretty solid football as a young QB. Carr probably had the best physical skill set of any QB in that draft (my view). Big, big arm, just prototypical. He's certainly playing good football in his second year.

The Browns staff is probably not surprised per se by Bridgewater and Carr's play so far. I guess, unless, they really are just shitty at player evaluation.

But, they took Manziel. And they didn't just take him, they burned a very valuable 3rd round pick (85th overall) to ensure they got him at 22. They took the guy with the most questions at least in terms of how his game would transition to the NFL. They took the biggest "chance".

What dialogue actually occurred amongst the decision makers on this choice? No one really knows. Rumors of Haslam's influence, Farmer's level of autonomy (or lack there of), and Pettine's thinking are all just rumors.

It seems clear they understood that Manziel was going to need time. Development time. The immediate positioning was purposeful and clear: We are not going to just throw Johnny in. We're going to take our time, carefully develop his NFL game, and play him when he's ready. Some hated the choice of terms ("he's the backup") but that messaging seemed pretty clear to me.

And? Well, here we sit at 2-7 in year 2 with no sense that Manziel is really any closer to being given the reins.

In light of the recent rumors alluding to a lack of cohesion (again) between FO and Coaching make the 2014 draft decisions even more stupefying. Maybe its mostly on Manziel. Maybe he just isn't developing. Maybe its just on the talent evaluation of Farmer and Co. Maybe Manziel just doesn't have what it takes.

Or, maybe, it is the organization as the primary problem. Disfunction, lack of commitment to Manziel, whatever.

I'll close with this though: Why would a newly assembled trio (owner, GM, and HC) take the riskiest of the three QB's? Why not just take the safest (Bridgewater) or the most prototypical (Carr)? Why take the biggest boom/bust prospect considering the newness of the staff, organization, and culture? Did anyone raise this point or did massive ego's just skip past this rather obvious consideration?

This really has nothing to do with my, or anyone's, views on Manziel's ultimate potential but the thinking behind his selection in the first place.

It just seems even odder now than it was when it happened.
 
The 2014 draft looms large in the rear view mirror at this point.

The Browns pass on very tempting impact players by trading out of the 4th pick which Buffalo's uses to draft Watkins. Still a controversial move for many, the stockpiling of another first rounder in 2015 at least makes this an understandable if not shrewd trade.

The Browns burn a 5th round pick in a trade-up of one slot with the Vikings and select Gilbert.

Later, the Eagles are the on the clock at 22; the Browns next to pick at 26. Only one QB has been selected thus far (Bortles) and the big 3 of Manziel, Bridgewater, and Carr remain on the board. Free falling some if you will. The Browns burn the 85th pick (a third rounder) to move up to 22 and select Manziel.

I know we beat this to death in the past, but in retrospect its a fascinating chain of events. Clearly, the Browns who were in desperate need of a QBOTF, were not convinced that any of "the 3" were strong prospects. If they had been, they would have taken one of them with the Gilbert pick. Instead, they watched all 3 fall another, what, 14 slots before they acted. Any QB needy team who had conviction for any of the 3 could have jumped them. If you had high conviction, there's no way a team in the Browns situation allows that risk to persist all the way down to the 22nd pick. Its illogical.

If you'll buy the logic so far, it gets weirder in my view.

Bridgewater came into the draft as the most NFL ready prospect. He's gone on to pretty much live up to that "floor" with his play thus far. Some may not see Bridgewater as ascending to a top 10 QB but there's no doubt he's played pretty solid football as a young QB. Carr probably had the best physical skill set of any QB in that draft (my view). Big, big arm, just prototypical. He's certainly playing good football in his second year.

The Browns staff is probably not surprised per se by Bridgewater and Carr's play so far. I guess, unless, they really are just shitty at player evaluation.

But, they took Manziel. And they didn't just take him, they burned a very valuable 3rd round pick (85th overall) to ensure they got him at 22. They took the guy with the most questions at least in terms of how his game would transition to the NFL. They took the biggest "chance".

What dialogue actually occurred amongst the decision makers on this choice? No one really knows. Rumors of Haslam's influence, Farmer's level of autonomy (or lack there of), and Pettine's thinking are all just rumors.

It seems clear they understood that Manziel was going to need time. Development time. The immediate positioning was purposeful and clear: We are not going to just throw Johnny in. We're going to take our time, carefully develop his NFL game, and play him when he's ready. Some hated the choice of terms ("he's the backup") but that messaging seemed pretty clear to me.

And? Well, here we sit at 2-7 in year 2 with no sense that Manziel is really any closer to being given the reins.

In light of the recent rumors alluding to a lack of cohesion (again) between FO and Coaching make the 2014 draft decisions even more stupefying. Maybe its mostly on Manziel. Maybe he just isn't developing. Maybe its just on the talent evaluation of Farmer and Co. Maybe Manziel just doesn't have what it takes.

Or, maybe, it is the organization as the primary problem. Disfunction, lack of commitment to Manziel, whatever.

I'll close with this though: Why would a newly assembled trio (owner, GM, and HC) take the riskiest of the three QB's? Why not just take the safest (Bridgewater) or the most prototypical (Carr)? Why take the biggest boom/bust prospect considering the newness of the staff, organization, and culture? Did anyone raise this point or did massive ego's just skip past this rather obvious consideration?

This really has nothing to do with my, or anyone's, views on Manziel's ultimate potential but the thinking behind his selection in the first place.

It just seems even odder now than it was when it happened.

Yes, it is odd. Really odd. And what followed is even odder.
 
The problem is that we really don't really know much of what is going on inside. But there seems to be enough leaking out with such a bad smell that we are left wondering about the source of the smell. Last year, I thought Shanahan was the bad apple. Now I am not so sure. Is it possible that he was the only good apple of the bunch?

Something certainly seems wrong. One of my questions is: can we trust Adkins?

Others are: how long will it be before the "truth" is confirmed of discredited? Is it really possible that both Farmer and Pettine are lying through their teeth: indicating perfect harmony in public while attempting to plant daggers in each other's heart privately? If so, how long will it be before the situation is resolved? How will it be resolved? Will it ever be resolved? Is it fair to ask if the Browns will ever be competitive on the field?

Im so happy that I can answer with a yes.

Adkins is one of the VERY rare reporters, who reports information that goes for and against his personal bias.

Actually, OBR said they are doing a follow up article with the source being someone from the other side of the coin (the coaching side). Which is really interesting.

However, this all distracts from the fact that.. people are leaking all types of stuff everywhere in that building. Players, coaches, officials, front office..

I'd say I hate it, but I dont because it allows us to hear about whats going on in there..

but the leaks make it obvious that theres internal disagreement and discontent to a high degree
 
Adkins has been just as susceptible to reporting erroneous stories positioned as "fact" in the past PGL. You know that.

You also know how desperate you are for anything that exonerates Manziel. We know it too. ;)

It sure does look like there's some smoke in Berea I guess. Rather wait a bit longer to start tossing around words like "fact" though.
 
Not true at all Grey

Adkins says repeatedly he didnt and doesnt think Manziel has very good chances at making it in the NFL.

Adkins went off about how awful Manziel was last year out of the building, and even alluded to stories that never hit the mainstream.

Adkins had been backing Pettine and supporting the coach up until literally about a month ago.

Im specifically citing Adkins as a proponent of the "it looks like it might be Pettines fault" agenda because of his personal bias against Manziel.
 
Im specifically citing Adkins as a proponent of the "it looks like it might be Pettines fault" agenda because of his personal bias against Manziel.
Which directly supports your Manziel-is-the-messiah bias. ;)

I'm just giving you a hard time PGL, that's all.

There certainly is more circumstantial evidence to support the notion that Berea is a mess vs. the alternative.
 
Lane is being fed information by someone with an agenda. We can speculate on what that means but we as fans are so quick to believe everything reported and begin the witch hunt. Tired of chasing every good coach we have out the door due to gossip.
 
Lane is being fed information by someone with an agenda. We can speculate on what that means but we as fans are so quick to believe everything reported and begin the witch hunt. Tired of chasing every good coach we have out the door due to gossip.

This is a great post! it's important to realized that all these media people are trying to make a living and have an agenda that may include info true, false, embellished, speculative. I take it all in with with a grain of salt. But Terry Pluto seems to get it right more than most.
 
It would be interesting to know who Adkins new source is. I had no idea he had one since his last insider (Dawn Aponte) was shipped off.
 
It would be interesting to know who Adkins new source is. I had no idea he had one since his last insider (Dawn Aponte) was shipped off.

Well if we knew his source, he wouldn't have a source very long. AO suggested that the source had an agenda. I am not sure I would go that far, but most people do have a point of view, and sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference.
 
Im so happy that I can answer with a yes.

Adkins is one of the VERY rare reporters, who reports information that goes for and against his personal bias.

Actually, OBR said they are doing a follow up article with the source being someone from the other side of the coin (the coaching side). Which is really interesting.

However, this all distracts from the fact that.. people are leaking all types of stuff everywhere in that building. Players, coaches, officials, front office..

I'd say I hate it, but I dont because it allows us to hear about whats going on in there..

but the leaks make it obvious that theres internal disagreement and discontent to a high degree

Like I've said before, I think Adkins is the only Browns reporter who won't post his biography so we can see his background. Suspicious to me.
 
Well if we knew his source, he wouldn't have a source very long. AO suggested that the source had an agenda. I am not sure I would go that far, but most people do have a point of view, and sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference.

It would be interesting if someone did an analysis of all the articles we've read/heard about over the past two years and fact check which ones turned out to be accurate and which reporters were most accurate. We get exposed to a lot of noise that often is not true or only half true.
 
That full Johnny interview they posted in the other thread was great. It had stuff in it the media didnt release in tweets or in video clips.

The part where he explained why he wasnt hitting the "outlet" or "checkdown" was really interesting and it would have been great for BDU to post the film so we can see the defensive tendencies.


What Johnny said (in case u guys didnt hear it) is that Cinci showed ALOT of short zone on the perimeter, and the fact that he saw a pattern and them constantly doing that, it scared him away from looking to the flat. So the plays where we saw someone wide open in the flat, was because Johnny didnt even look there because he was conditioned by past coverages that the play wasnt going to be there.

Its sort of the Quarterback equivalent of "Jumping a route" (like a CB would) but guessing wrong.
 
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