The Offensive Line | Page 25 | Barking Hard

The Offensive Line

Just looking at the league's offensive tackle rankings this morning.

Schwartz is grading out at 77.5 vs Pasztor at 76.1 for the season (the grades range from 90.5 to 28.7 for reference). They're both ranked in the 30's out of 80+ tackles. Plus, Pasztor can play guard - and is actually better at it than tackle.

Pasztor, along with Taylor, Terrelle, and Collins, should be a priority UFA signing this winter.
 
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OconRecon said:
Just looking at the league's offensive tackle rankings this morning.

Schwartz is grading out at 77.5 vs Pasztor at 76.1 for the season (the grades range from 90.5 to 28.7 for reference). They're both ranked in the 30's out of 80+ tackles. Plus, Pasztor can play guard - and is actually better at it than tackle.

Pasztor, along with Taylor, Terrelle, and Collins, should be a priority UFA signing this winter.
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C'mon Ocon. The individual analytics say 1 thing but the eye test says another. Do we now ignore what our eyes are telling us and believe everything analytics tell us? It's akin to "I read it on the internet so it has to be true" ;)
 
Eye test often lies. For one thing, the guys doing PFF have a far greater understanding of play calls and OL assignments....so while we may watch a DE go around Pasztor...we may not realize that the TE was supposed to chip the guy and it was on him...not Pasztor.

Besides which, Schwartz has been made into some pro-bowl type player by many hear...not remembering that he was a turnstile on this OL until just last year. He has recently started to give up sacks again...so there is that.
 
Nope, not buying it on Pastzor at RT Dawg.

The "eye test" doesn't lie when we watch Pastzor, in space, routinely struggle. I mean we can't have a tackle on either side that constantly requires RB/TE help on every pass play. Its not quite that extreme, but you get the point. He just doesn't have the "feet" to play out there.

We need an upgrade at RT which is different from saying Pastzor shouldn't be on the roster.
 
And the grades can lie just as much as the eye test. Firstly, PFF have no greater understanding of the assignments than anyone else. They're guessing. Secondly, our interior OL is giving up a heap of sacks and pressures which is certainly helping Pasztor keep a clean sheet, but I would argue his blocking isn't satisfactory in spite of the interior simply being worse.

That's not to say Schwartz is anywhere near as good as some people have overrated him to be, or to suggest that Pasztor is terrible, but RT is still a legitimate concern. He's not the weak link on a bad OL, but I'm not sure he's a starter on a good OL.
 
Oh, I am not saying Pasztor is a great RT by any estimation. In fact, I am all in on him moving in to RG or as the swing. I am just saying he is not nearly the HUGE dropoff from Schwartz some seem to believe. RT needs to be upgraded...and if we can get a guy that eventually can take over at LT in a few years all the better.
 
Whoa, I'm not saying he's probowl level or anything. I'm just saying he's at least playing average-ly (not terribly), is flexible in that he can play guard and tackle, and thus I'd put him in the "keeper" category. He's NFL young too, as his career started with some injuries.

He does not deserve Schwartz money, but maybe 1.5 to 2 mil or so wouldn't be unreasonable for a serviceable guard/tackle with experience in the NFL and Hue's system.

He's one of our top 5 O lineman, maybe sad to say. JT, JB, JG - then Pasztor is about the pecking order. And Cam, Bailey and the rest are distant 5ths.

And I'm in the minority on Schwartz, but he and his blow-hard brother wanted the Browns to overpay him and we told him to stick it up his ass. The bitter pill part of that is Schwartz was right, and Schwartz at RT with Pasztor subbing in for our oft injured guards could have helped this team.
 
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I hear you but as porous as the OL has been this year; it would seem criminal to see the fourth best guy in the unit starting next year.

JT and JB are the only two locks in my book. Greco's a probable unless we kill it with player development and/or new talent. I want a new RT/C combo unless Cam suddenly lives up to the Giant's sense of him. ;)
 
There it is. Cooper is an FA after this year. He has 4 weeks to impress. It'd be stunning if he did, but hey, might as well.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Browns?src=hash">#Browns</a> O-line coach Hal Hunter said Jonathan Cooper will start at right guard with John Greco (foot) out for season.</p>— Nate Ulrich (@NateUlrichABJ) <a href="https://twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ/status/803654942691119106">November 29, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
DawgFan said:
Eye test often lies. For one thing, the guys doing PFF have a far greater understanding of play calls and OL assignments....so while we may watch a DE go around Pasztor...we may not realize that the TE was supposed to chip the guy and it was on him...not Pasztor.

Besides which, Schwartz has been made into some pro-bowl type player by many hear...not remembering that he was a turnstile on this OL until just last year. He has recently started to give up sacks again...so there is that.
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When I watch a line that cannot run block, and qb's getting killed back there and see an 0-12 record, I'm sorry but I'm gonna trust my eyes over what PFF is telling me ;) although I will tell you I love your positive outlook and keeping some semblance of hope alive. ;)
 
Said it before, Dallas's record sucked when they had no QB, with the exact same O-line they have now.

All of this is hard to judge when our QB's stand back there forever AND Cam allows free-runs up the middle.

A good QB and a good center, and everyone else would look way better.
 
Bingo Ocon. Again...all 3 of our QB's tend to hold the ball too long...Kessler the least so..and it shows with his completion percentage. That puts a lot on an OL that hasn't had the same 5 on the field for more than 2 games in a row all year. It also doesn't help that our WR group is so inexperienced...they aren't getting separation fast, so that leads to the QB holding the ball. All of that then allows teams to stack the box and blitz the shit out of the OL.

Synergy...when things are good, it is great to have. When things are bad...it's a bitch.
 
Masters said:
PFF is putting up grades for every team and everyone within hours of games being over. Little stock can be put in their grades these days
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As of just under 2 years ago they had 80 employees...and that was when they were being used by only 13 teams. They now are being actively used by 24 NFL teams...so my guess is the employee number is much higher. You have that many people focused on multiple (per website 140+ points of data), it can be done quickly and accurately.
 
Pasztor has good value as a swing man 6th Olineman. He can start at Guard for sure, but is avg. at Tackle.

I think the plan was for Shon Coleman or Bailey to be able to play ahead of Pasztor and have Pasztor compete at Guard, but Coleman and Bailey must really blow and now we're stuck with Pasztor there and he's worked himself up to be adequate.

I'd give him 3 mil. Hell we have who to replace him?
 
Pasztor was damn good at guard last year, decent at tackle this year. PFF is HIGHLY respected around the league and has the time to break down every play by every player. I wouldn't dismiss it freely... or at all, for that matter.

We have a lot of young players to develop in Pasztor, Drango, Coleman, and Reiter. We have veterans in Thomas, Greco, and Bitonio. I don't think one of those guys "sucks." If we can get it right at center and QB, I think we'll have a very good line.

The one game Reiter started we had an excellent line, actually. Bitonio was still playing at that time.
 
OconRecon said:
Said it before, Dallas's record sucked when they had no QB, with the exact same O-line they have now.

All of this is hard to judge when our QB's stand back there forever AND Cam allows free-runs up the middle.

A good QB and a good center, and everyone else would look way better.
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Did a little research. Ya might want to rethink the Dallas statement. From 2015 and 10 years prior, the Cowboys are # 8 in wins. Sounds like Romo isn't as bad as you're making him out to be. ;)
 
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