The Offensive Line | Page 18 | Barking Hard

The Offensive Line

Brownsfan1956 said:
cam sucks...on one blitz a Titan LB took one arm and shoved him over....I believe at my advanced age I could whip his ass on the field lol


He is the worst center I have ever seen in a Browns uni...that goes back to Fred Hoaglin (who was pretty damn good)
Click to expand...

Perhaps we can keep him on as some kind of public relations person, taking sick or underprivileged high school girls to their proms.

He's good at that.
 
Read a quick blurb that the Browns do indeed love Austin Reiter, liked what they saw in practice and loved what they saw in his only game. They had homed in on him for a while, apparently, in hopes of snagging him off the 'Skins practice squad. He should be ready by Spring to compete. I won't be stunned if he's a find who wins the starting job. He looked really, really good.

The Browns starting OL next year could be Thomas, Bitonio, Reiter, Greco, and Shon Coleman, assuming the team continues to give their draftees ever opportunity to prove it or lose it on the field. Drango and Pasztor will definitely be in the mix. I'm guessing we add another pretty high draftee... but at worst those seven seem pretty set to me. Erving depends on his play the rest of the season but it certainly doesn't look promising from here.
 
If everyone goes back to page 14 of this thread, you can see the video of Joe Thomas saying "Goo Tribe!" in a t-shit. Look at his body/arms, especially when he starts clapping at the end. The man is actually ripped. Very defined muscles, a thick and bulky specimen.

Then Google "Cam Erving" and look at him. Total fucking opposite. The "bingo wings" joke is actually spot on, because even in action shots you cannot see defined muscles on Cam.

I honestly am starting to think it's a legitimate issue. At 6'5" 313, he shouldn't be getting pushed around, he's actually bigger than many fantastic centers. I think he's just fat, straight up fat and isn't gunning it in the gym.
 
I'm wondering if today was the end of Cam. To be pulled with an "illness" mid game is a little much of a coincidence for me. I thought the line performed well enough without him to warrant the continued development of the rookies. Drango wasn't special, but he played well, and certainly wasn't a detriment. I feel like we gain more with Greco at C, too.

I felt terrible for Coleman, to hold him out all this time and then throw him in against Carlos Dunlap is just so damn strange. We're talking about the second best DE in the NFL, second only to Watt, and that's the time for debut? Fuck me. Talk about the deep end.
 
I'm not ready to say that the game is won and lost in the trenches. It's won and lost by the QB on 3rd down, but when the OL is so, so bad that the QB does not have time to throw and the WRs have no time to get open, maybe it IS won and lost in the trenches. Ever since Paul "Butch" Davis signed the "Big Bellied" Kelvin Garmon to play RG in 2004, Cleveland's OL have been getting their QB killed.

I mean, what?:

Sign WRs who can get open quickly and a QB who can get the ball out quickly to cover for shit OL?

Or, sign OL who can give their shit QB and shit WRs all day to get open?

Yea, probably somewhere in the middle. Enough time to block and enough time to get open and enough time to throw ... just barely...

-Al
 
Scam's illness is BS. He knows it. Hue knows it. Browns Nation knows it.

Ya don't start a game and not finish because you have a belly ache or headache or a fucking sore throat.

...then again he sucks so bad if he were compromised in the tinyest of ways..it would be fucking great to tell him GTFO and we'll say you were ill. Now GTFO!

:banhim:
 
The decision to move forward with Cam was a longshot at best and is really looking like a bad, bad FO decision.

Who is our OL coach? You wonder if hes feeling any heat ? JT leaving would be a bad sign.
 
hammertime said:
The decision to move forward with Cam was a longshot at best and is really looking like a bad, bad FO decision.

Who is our OL coach? You wonder if hes feeling any heat ? JT leaving would be a bad sign.
Click to expand...

I doubt he's feeling any heat.

Our issue is purely C and RT. Unfortunately, the injury to Bitonio has also made LG as issue. Now...

1. Cam just outright sucks. I cannot blame coaching because he's shown literally no improvement. That's not on anyone but Cam, and it doesn't help that more often than not Cam is simply thrown around. I'm not defending his technique in the slightest, I just don't think he's an NFL player - period - and coaching can't fix that.

2. Pasztor at RT is a result of need. Unfortunately, Coleman wasn't ready in time. It's not a huge shock because he is a very raw prospect, but it's forced Pasztor out of position.

3. We've got a declined level of play from Greco because he's bouncing from RG to C to LG on a near weekly basis. Not trying to excuse it, but I really can't think of a guy in the NFL who could be forced to make that many changes, including mid-game, and not suffer as a result.

4. The sad thing for Coleman is he just wasn't ready in time. He was so raw that we knew this would be a chance, but it is what it is.

5. I'm not saying the OL is great by any stretch, but it's well known teams are stacking the box on us and we haven't done shit. We're not forcing the ball deep to back them up and we're not taking advantage when teams get overzealous. A large part of helping the offensive line, in my opinion, starts elsewhere. Deep passing is absolutely that.

I'm not pinning it on the coaching, really, just a young team that is injury decimated and not quite yet ready to really take the reigns over another team.
 
Here is an interesting article...and it seems to fit the type of model this FO is likely to have:

https://nflspinzone.com/2016/10/27/cleveland-browns-offensive-line-confidence/

Hue Jackson has reaffirmed what we knew—the Cleveland Browns are excited about the offensive line and doesn’t see it as the problem critics do.

In a press conference this week, Cleveland Browns head coach Hue Jackson made a few notable comments. Perhaps the most interesting theme was that the coach suggested that, despite the 0-7 record and the fact that six different quarterbacks have taken snaps for the team, they don’t view the offensive line as the big problem.

Further, given the number of injuries this team has suffered and the performance they’ve still been able to get, the team likely does not view the offensive line the pressing issue in the upcoming free agency or the 2017 NFL Draft that many critics and fans do.

Despite saying before the season the Browns would not be trading future Hall of Fame left tackle Joe Thomas, Hue Jackson came out again in a press conference this week to reaffirm that point of view. When asked about a rumor that was published by ProFootballTalk that the Browns were looking to get a second round pick for Joe Thomas, Hue Jackson said the following:

#Browns HC Hue Jackson said “we are not going to trade Joe Thomas.”

— Nate Ulrich (@NateUlrichABJ) October 24, 2016

Although less notable, Jackson also talked about how the quarterbacks need to do better in protecting themselves.

Per Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal:

“When we watch this with Cody, we will tell him again, ‘Hey, if you are going to get flushed, maybe throw the ball away just to save yourself a little bit from those hits,’ ” Jackson said. “We don’t want quarterbacks taking unnecessary hits. Cody has proved his toughness. He doesn’t have to do that all the time.

“He can do some things better to protect himself in those situations, but it was a heck of a play that he and Gary made that gave us the chance to go score a touchdown. I don’t want to take the fight out of him, but he also has to understand the situation he is in, too.”

This doesn’t absolve the offensive line of blame for some of the hits quarterbacks are taking, but it does underline an important point. There are a numerous examples where quarterbacks have caused their own problems.

Robert Griffin III’s shoulder injury was caused by a scramble where he took a hit going out of bounds. Cody Kessler’s concussion came on a gritty, competitive play. However, it was not a terribly smart play given the status of the quarterback position and the importance of the play at the time.

There’s no debating the point that the Browns have had issues with pass protection at various points. Cam Erving, in particular, has had some of the most obvious and embarrassing moments, which have been popular fodder on social media. It’s still not nearly as bad as critics make it out to be, though. And while the team wants to eliminate those errors, they seem comfortable with where they are because they believe in where they are going.

The team believes that Erving and Shon Coleman are going to be their center and right tackle for years to come. They need them to get experience and become confident in the mental parts of the game, but love their physical upside and what they can do in this offense. Erving’s issues with his lung and leaving this past game with an illness have inhibited his ability to get more comfortable.

Joel Bitonio is a fantastic left guard and will soon be a priority to re-sign for the long term. John Greco has played well this season, both at right guard and at center when needed. He has one more year left on his contract after this one and it’s possible they extend him but they also have options.

Austin Pasztor has been playing right tackle this year, largely out of necessity. Yes, he can play it and is a good run blocker from that spot. However, he tends have issues in pass protection when he’s out in space against athletic edge rushers. Last year, Pasztor had some great moments as a guard in spot duty and could potentially compete for the starting right guard job but also be a swing guy that can play three spots as a backup when Coleman takes over the right tackle job.

Rookie Spencer Drango filled in at left guard this past week and will continue to get opportunities to show what he can do there. If he can be at least perform adequately, he becomes another player with the versatility to play multiple spots. Conceivably, he could play everything but center, which would provide more depth.

Drango understands what he needs to do but especially from the waist down, he needs to get stronger. In the game against the Cincinnati Bengals, he had some nice plays, but also had to win as a run blocker largely by position and got bullied in pass protection.

The Browns also have Alvin Bailey and recently signed Jonathan Cooper and Gabe Ikard. Cooper, the seventh-overall pick of the 2013 NFL Draft, has dealt with several injuries and is on his third team now. How healthy he is and how much of the promise he has to have made him such a high pick are unclear at this point.

With not even half the season played at this point and injuries mounting, the Browns may be forced to see what Cooper has in live game action. Bailey, Ikard and Austin Reiter (out for the season with a torn ACL) are likely nothing more than stopgap type players. But they may get their shot to prove themselves in training camp next year.

One other player that might have a chance to be a good player in the long term is Anthony Fabiano. The former Harvard offensive linemen missed the Senior Bowl due to an injury, but his athletic testing was outstanding. Fabiano may have played in the Ivy League, but his physical ability is about on par with Bitonio, a tremendous athlete in his own right.

Fabiano is currently on the Browns practice squad as he adjusts to the jump in competition at this level. Currently repping with the scout team, if Fabiano can make that adjustment, his potential is outstanding. In the long term, the Browns could have three tremendous athletes in the middle of their line with Bitonio, Erving and Fabiano.


As much as critics may look at the offensive line of the Cleveland Browns and want to ‘fix it’, the team really seems to like who they have and just want them to get confident and master the details. Erving’s bruised lung has proven to be a real setback as the team needs him to get all the reps he can and that has forced him to miss a few games.

To Erving’s credit, he is doing everything he can to play. This past week, he was good in the first two quarters before illness forced him to miss the second half. The week before, he was laboring through and had some issues related to the bruised lung after the game..

Erving, Coleman and Drango are going to make some mistakes due to their inexperience. Those mistakes can and have resulted in quarterbacks taking some ugly hits and no one wants that to happen. The Browns are hoping these struggles pay off for the future and specifically next year.

The Browns have four, if not all five positions planned out for next season. Joe Thomas at left tackle, Bitonio at left guard, Erving at center and Coleman at right tackle. The question is right guard, which may well mean Greco staying. He’s played well at right guard, though he’s not the ideal gap scheme powerhouse that Hue Jackson seems to want. That’s what he had in Kevin Zeitler with the Cincinnati Bengals.

Pasztor is a more traditional gap-scheme guard, powerful at the point of attack and effective on the pull. His issues in pass protection would be minimized slightly since he’s not asked to cover as much ground. This is the area where Greco has an advantage as he’s more effective in space. That could be a great competition next year with the loser becoming a valuable backup and role player.

As a result, the Browns may not be nearly as aggressive to attack the offensive line in free agency and the draft as critics might expect. If an opportunity presents itself, they should certainly jump on it, but it’s not the quagmire many want to believe.

The one exception to that is when it comes to Joe Thomas. No, they aren’t trading him. But they do need to be on the lookout for his eventual replacement. Thomas has two more years left on his contract and has given no indication that he’s going to retire before that. So the Browns are operating from a position of strength. They don’t have to rush.

Nevertheless, they do need to find someone who can become the left tackle when Thomas is gone. While they are unlikely to provide the level of play Thomas does, the offense can’t be short-circuited by the change either. Having a year or few to learn behind Thomas and get reps in practice when he’s off with the starting unit would be ideal.

A little-known aspect of the offensive line is how united and focused the offensive line room is. As it was put to me, “The O-line room is a bunch of just good guys who love and want to play football.”

Despite the injuries and various setbacks, this group is on the same page, believes in each other and is pushing for each other to succeed. They’re all headed in the same direction and that’s important and likely due in no small part to having Joe Thomas in there as a leader. It also suggests the front office is focused on bringing in the right type of players so they can breed the mindset they want in the trenches.


As much as critics may think the Browns need to focus on the offensive line in the upcoming offseason, the team seems confident in what they have, even if they aren’t there right now. Outside of having an opportunity being too good to pass up, the Browns are betting that this group is up to the challenge and that will enable them to use their resources to attack other areas of the team, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Click to expand...

Erving is struggling, I get it. So are some of the other guys...but there is a TON of potential on this OL and if only 2/3rds of it pay off, they should be a strength of this team in 2017.
 
King of Kings said:
Yeah..... So if Radio truly believes the Oline is great and Scam is the anchor he definitely needs to be shown the door, post haste.
Click to expand...

I'd put money on it being coach speak. As bad as Cam is, we really don't currently have an alternative. We joke that any guy off the street could do better, but I think we're tied to Cam for the year. I don't blame Hue for that - It's almost unfathomable to believe that Cam has somehow got worse, but he's managed to do so.

I don't think Hue is happy with anyone on a line that's pushed him to using a 6th string QB, but unlike us, he really can't just call them fucking trash.
 
I get his point: There's a lot of young talent on the OL, guys with the size and athleticism and skill set to play really well in the league. But we're talking about a lot of very young guys aside from Thomas and Greco. In the personnel game, you have to be careful to resist "churn" when a young player doesn't dominate from day one.

I mean, remember when Mo Claiborne was a bust? Not so much anymore. Every time you give up on a young player in favor of a younger one, you're contributing to that "running in place" mode. I really get the sense this brass and staff want to show patience with young players they like.
 
brownsdownunder said:
If everyone goes back to page 14 of this thread, you can see the video of Joe Thomas saying "Goo Tribe!" in a t-shit. Look at his body/arms, especially when he starts clapping at the end. The man is actually ripped. Very defined muscles, a thick and bulky specimen.

Then Google "Cam Erving" and look at him. Total fucking opposite. The "bingo wings" joke is actually spot on, because even in action shots you cannot see defined muscles on Cam.

I honestly am starting to think it's a legitimate issue. At 6'5" 313, he shouldn't be getting pushed around, he's actually bigger than many fantastic centers. I think he's just fat, straight up fat and isn't gunning it in the gym.
Click to expand...

I found this image of Cam, that was enough for me.View attachment 575
 
brownsdownunder said:
I'd put money on it being coach speak. As bad as Cam is, we really don't currently have an alternative. We joke that any guy off the street could do better, but I think we're tied to Cam for the year. I don't blame Hue for that - It's almost unfathomable to believe that Cam has somehow got worse, but he's managed to do so.

I don't think Hue is happy with anyone on a line that's pushed him to using a 6th string QB, but unlike us, he really can't just call them fucking trash.
Click to expand...

The fact that he is insistent on continually starting Scam tells me he really believes the shit he is spouting, that Scam is going to stop being ragdolled and the fat sack of shit will magically transform into a probowl center.
 
Back
Top Bottom