The Offensive Line | Page 7 |

The Offensive Line

I would certainly check into it and I wouldn't be all that wary of trading a premium pick (we just don't have a lot of needs). The window is right now with Baker's rookie contract.

But like McCoy, I see it as a luxury add. I think we have a high functioning line and a great OL coach, not to mention nice depth. I do not think we'd suddenly die if G-Rob got hurt and Lamm or Forbes played. We ask less of G-Rob than we ever asked of Joe Thomas... again, the Packer way.

It's just a way smarter way to think of the OL when you're gonna be paying your QB 36 mill a year real soon. Patriots let their high-end starting LT walk and nobody batted an eye, picked for the Super Bowl again. Having the highest paid OT or OG is not the winning recipe these days.
 
Premium picks are future players on cheap contracts, possibly GOOD players on cheap contracts. I would very wary of trading a premium pick.

You can't draft for backups like the Cowboys did in the late 90s because they had Aikman, Novacek, Smith, and Irvin. I still remember Jerruh saying he needs to pick backups and selecting some worthless backup TE in the late 1st round who never amounted to anything, let alone backing someone up.

The Browns will be very, very old in 3 years when OBJ and Landry hit 30 years old, and the RBs will be commanding top dollar. Premium picks will need to be selected with much carefulness to keep Baker surrounded with enough talent to maintain a dynasty.

-Al
 
Agreed with your post so damn much, Geech... until you said we're gonna go from really young to "very very old" in three years. Although I've had hangovers that felt like I got very, very old in one night.

We won't be old in 3 years, or even close. And I'm betting only one of those 29-year-old WRs will be on the team. But 26-year-old Baker will definitely be there. My call would be to extend Higgins and move Landry after the season.

Oh, and great point on the pick. Browns are drafting future starters so they can retain the core (Baker, Beckham, Myles, Ward). They could well have found several last draft even without a first round pick (Greedy, Takitaki, Redwine, possibly Wilson and Forbes).
 
Ocon said:
Yep, breaking down video game grades during the dead period.
It’s where I am.

It could be worse.
You could be rummaging around in Otto Graham's dirty laundry from the mid fifties.
Check out the uniform thread.:hugegrin:
 
Zac Jackson’s depth chart:

Left tackle:
Greg Robinson
Kendall Lamm
Brad Seaton

Left guard:
Joel Bitonio
Drew Forbes (R)
Bryan Witzmann

Center:
JC Tretter
Eric Kush*
Kyle Kalis*
Austin Corbett*

Right guard:
Austin Corbett*
Eric Kush*
Kyle Kalis*

Right tackle:
Chris Hubbard
Kendall Lamm
Drew Forbes (R)

* denotes a player in a co-starting role at the start of camp or with some other unique circumstance
 
I think this is about right. Corbett is an unknown, the OT's (by themselves, so to speak) are average, but made good by Baker, leaving Bitonio and Tretter as the two KNOWN studs.

Having said that...

G-Rob + Campen has potential
Hubbard improved as the season went on.
Corbett may or may not work out, but Kush is in the wings as the PFF #1 passblocking guard from 2018

Campen has decent clay to work with here. No, he's not stepping into a room like the WR and RB coaches are, but he's made fantastic lines out of similar talent in the past.

20. CLEVELAND BROWNS
PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: Greg Robinson
Left Guard: Joel Bitonio
Center: JC Tretter
Right Guard: Austin Corbett
Right Tackle: Chris Hubbard

Cleveland’s interior offensive line was the major reason why the line was widely touted as one of the league’s best in 2018, but the front now looks much different after shipping Kevin Zeitler to New York in exchange for Odell Beckham and Olivier Vernon. Second-year guard Austin Corbett, who has logged just 14 NFL snaps, will step in alongside right tackle Chris Hubbard. The Browns’ offense is now lightyears better following an exciting offseason, but it will be intriguing to see how the offensive line fares given their losses.

 
I have no problem with saying our line talent is average. As a unit under Campen, I expect they'll operate at a level where we don't have to think about them very much, like a Packers OL.

Really nice veteran depth. We could get dinged and keep humming. Just keep drafting guys like Forbes for the pipeline, again like the Packers. Grab another guy in R3 next year, just a little higher. Rinse and repeat.

Rams do it really well, too. Quietly draft OL in rounds 4/5 and then a year or two later they're starting, playing well, and you have to go back and refresh your memory. Love it.
 
 
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Kinda hope Duke can get us a quality young OL, a guy drafted in R5 two years ago who has starter potential but guys in front of him. But a 5th rounder we USE on an OL next April is fine in theory too.

We're in a relatively safe position on the OL. If Corbett doesn't pull it together, Kush, Kalis, and Witzemann (?) are waiting and capable. As Jake said, you just need NFL average play from your guards for the unit to function at a high level. Just do your job, as Belicheck said. Nobody needs to know your name.

I think Robinson is going to work out quite well with Campen helping him continue to edge his game upwards to his potential. I just hope he doesn't expect a massive deal because I don't think that's gonna be our approach to the OL anymore.

Draft and mold, draft and mold. That's what the 4th round is for.
 
Super good article over at BrownsMaven, a.k.a., Pete Smith.

Points out Campen likes O-lines with movement, i.e., pulling the guards.

G-Rob is a force if he's asked to block down on a DT, and that's vs every DT in the league.
This allows the more athletic Corbett to pull and kick-out a defender, which is something Zeitler didn't do very well.
Bitonio is good at pulling as well.
Tretter is too.

Look for Campen to use G-Rob's force in down-blocks, and combine it with the pulling of the "athletic interior 3", to create holes for Chubb, who has innate vision and patience when carrying the ball.

F'n' great O-line stuff. Love it. This is where Campen's coaching will definitely matter.

https://footballmaven.io/browns/bro...veland-browns-offense-wn5Irw0x1kWU3UIS8yjzKA/
 
The Zeitler trade also allowed lesser of a cap hit at the guard positions. We were spending too much money with both Bitonio and Zeitler getting top dollar. It didn't allow for money to be spent at other more critical positions.

Also a point of contention regarding Duke as the highest paid 3rd string RB in the league. I could be wrong cause I didn't fact check it, but I'm pretty sure he is.

Dorsey's alleged weakness was spending properly when he came here. Well, I don't see it. He's made the right moves to alleviate high salaries at lesser positions while bringing in talent. The OLine is a beneficiary and if Campen gets GRob to be more physical and not allow guys to get into him off the edge we could have an excellent LT to go with a RT that can pull in the run game.

I suspect a ton of traps and pulls in the run game is in the future.
 
Fantastic 1-2 punch of posts, Ocon and Jay. Corbett is WAY more a Packers/Campen guard than Zeitler, more zone athlete like Bitonio and Tretter, an actual former Packer and one of the more athletic centers in the league.

And on Dorsey recreating our cap distribution: Yes he certainly has. Trading Zeitler for an edge was huge, for instance. Today, in 2019, you pay guys who cover or rush the passer... and guys who throw and catch the football. It's the new core.

The days of trading down to draft first round corners and nose tackles is behind us. Hell, drafting a quarterback #1 overall is revolutionary after 20 years of taking none higher than 22. Paying a "top few" WR like a top few WR. Talk about dragging a team into the 21st century.

Oh, and dropping overpaid Jamie Collins, always touted to have pass rush skills that never showed up. He's a pretty good off-ball LB, AKA flippable.
 
Guard is well known to be the least important position on offense. It's still important, but it's the least important. It may be the least important position on the entire team (and as an ex-O-lineman, that's painful to type).

Dorsey has said his ranking of positional importance goes:

1. QB (has Baker)
2. Edge/pass-rusher (has Garrett, swapped out Zeitler for Vernon)
3. CB (has pro-bowler Ward, added (this draft's) coverage-CB1 in Greedy)
4. LT (G-Rob successful under Freddie, now add Campen)
5. WR ("drafted" OBJ with a 1st rounder)

Like PFF said today. Defend the pass + pass the ball = winning.

3 fairly expensive vets at G,C,& G didn't make much sense. Especially with a highly drafted G on the roster.


Following that up with ...

Kush - the only guard in the league above Zeitler last year in pass blocking grades,
&,
Kalis - who has impressed thus far (and the icing is he's CLE born & raised)

... & I'm just not worried about our interior 3. Weird enough, despite losing Zeitler, it's still a deep room with prototypical workman-like personalities in it. We're good there.

===

And speaking of grades (+ an embed test)...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NFL O-Line coach chimes in <a href="https://t.co/rbbbytMQ9Y">https://t.co/rbbbytMQ9Y</a></p>— Steve Palazzolo (@PFF_Steve) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/1151528869784170498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 17, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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Interesting. Risdon going with Kalis....

Offensive line

  • Starters (L-R): Greg Robinson, Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, Kyle Kalis, Chris Hubbard
  • Reserves: Austin Corbett (G-C), Eric Kush (G-C), Kendall Lamm (T), Bryan Witzmann (G-T), Drew Forbes (G)
  • Practice squad: Brian Fineanganofo
 
It will not surprise me if that's not our final OL group. With Duke around and a couple extra picks we don't really need, could flip what we have for something better as the summer drags on.
 
The O-line after day 2:

LT1 - G-Rob
LG1 - Bitonio
C1 - Trett
RG1 - Kalis
RT1 - Hubbard


LT2 - Seaton
LG2 - Witzmann
C2 - Corbett
RG2 - Kush
RT2 - Lamm

LT3 - Forbes
RT3 - Fineanganofo
 
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