The Offensive Line | Page 9 |

The Offensive Line

Doubt any of this happens, but lunchtime food for thought...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Possible Browns Trade Scenarios: Targeting the Offensive Line<br><br>Let us know what you think, and which one you'd prefer!<a href="https://twitter.com/ChandlerAdamss?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ChandlerAdamss</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Browns?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Browns</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ClevelandBrowns?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ClevelandBrowns</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DawgPound?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DawgPound</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Dawgs?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Dawgs</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLTrades?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLTrades</a> <a href="https://t.co/MqnNfiXuim">pic.twitter.com/MqnNfiXuim</a></p>— The Lake Effect with Chandler Adams (@LakeAdams) <a href="https://twitter.com/LakeAdams/status/1166015834453610496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2019</a></blockquote>
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OconRecon said:
Doubt any of this happens, but lunchtime food for thought...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Possible Browns Trade Scenarios: Targeting the Offensive Line<br><br>Let us know what you think, and which one you'd prefer!<a href="https://twitter.com/ChandlerAdamss?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ChandlerAdamss</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Browns?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Browns</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ClevelandBrowns?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ClevelandBrowns</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DawgPound?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DawgPound</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Dawgs?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Dawgs</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLTrades?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLTrades</a> <a href="https://t.co/MqnNfiXuim">pic.twitter.com/MqnNfiXuim</a></p>— The Lake Effect with Chandler Adams (@LakeAdams) <a href="https://twitter.com/LakeAdams/status/1166015834453610496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Click to expand...

3rd and 7th for Tunsil? Make that happen now.
 
Give the same OL four games to play with each other and if they haven't improved enough, make a change. Let's hope that Kitchens continues the quick hitters that don't force the OL to have to do a ton to protect Baker early.

My concern is the times Baker doesn't get the ball out super quickly. They will happen and we can't have errors or big hits to our QB.
 
On the OL, I suspect we're not as perfect as we looked the first few series of the PS or as bad as we looked that first half of the third game. We're okay to pretty good, I'd say, likely to add another piece at a pretty high level in the offseason, ready to welcome Drew Forbes to the starting lineup by 2020.

But could Dorsey shake up that gee-shucks approach with a trade? Uh, he's John Fucking Dorsey. Of course he could. I'd even say it feels likely because he may not wanna risk that shitty narrative: "He put all the pieces in place... but he didn't protect the franchise. Did he not learn from the Colts?!"
 
It's pre-season..things are never as bad as they seem or a good as they look. ( OL.. Bad..DL great) Generally it's somewhere in between.. allthough I'd lean more t o the the as good as they look side on the DL.. and the somewhere in between for the OL.
 
Ya know, a quick condensed game re-watch this morning, the back-up O-line protected Gilbert & Blough pretty darn well.

The Lions back-ups, by comparison, were owned by our 2nd string DL.

Compared to teams like the Redskins, Texans, and Titans ... maybe we aren't as in as bad as shape as we thought. Like us, 2 of those 3 have pretty high hopes this season.

Add Teller, who Bills Mafia claims we'll love, and grades continue to trend upward, we might be okay here.

Betting Forbes to IR (MCL's, if that's what it is, take a month or so), and Teller upgrades nicely.

Pete Smith, fwiw, who doesn't like Corbett, says you hang on to him. He's young, highly drafted, and these preseason games are proving OL depth doesn't grow on trees.

I'm totally fine with an IOL room of (G) Bitonio, (C) Tretter, (G/C) Kush, (C/G) Corbett, & (G) Teller.

Add two starting OT's and a swing OT and let's roll.

==•••


(Teller is built AF)


View attachment 1421
 
Said this elsewhere but Lamm played well all preseason, good PFF grades, has the team feeling good about its swing tackle. He could step in and play. If he and Kush end up the primary backups, that's not bad at all.

Starting line by week three will be G-Rob, Bitonio, Tretter, Teller, and Hubbard... and that's pretty damn good. Certainly shouldn't be a problem. Forbes figures into the future and I'm betting we draft another pretty high, R1 or R2. Keep feeding Campen's beast, because it's all about the unit.
 
Keep seeing hints that Browns and Packers might be talking. They have a screaming need at ILB. Adkins said it would take a blockbuster to get one of our starting LBs... but I don't know if that's true of Kirksey. Although I should say that he's been getting good reviews, always more excitement for a rookie 5th-round steal.

It's as big to them as our RG sitch, like something they're sweating. Non-core positions can fuck you if they aren't actually "good enough."

Yes, Taylor would instantly be the 2nd best OG on our team, no doubt... but like Teller, he's mostly a LG, so it's another transition. And we don't seem that guard needy anymore (Bitonio, Teller, Kush, Forbes, Witzmann).

If he comes in, somebody else likely goes out. I assume Witzmann. Maybe somebody else, too. I'd be looking to keep Taylor, Wyatt, and Forbes... and they'd be locks... but Kush has actually been practicing the position. How many IOL does a team dress?
 
Might not happen. Vibe is that the Browns aren't as worried about their line as fans, and that's mostly just having something to talk about.

Worth a reminder: We're replacing one player from a very good 2018 line, ranked in the top five by PFF. One guard. We now have two legit guys competing to start there, Kush and Teller. Team has made it clear by trading TWO picks, a five and a six, that Teller is in line to be a starter, potentially long-term. They feel the same way about Forbes.

I think Kush likely starts next Sunday and then it's week to week. If Teller takes over, that could be your line for a long time if we're willing to pay Tretter and Robinson. The line is all about continuity so if Robinson is median or above, you do everything you can.

Kush and Lamm are great as primary backups, add Forbes when he's back. We're in good shape.
 
I do not think the Browns disagree, Phil. Fans tend to make a lot of noise, especially when they don't have much to complain about.

The Browns had a top five OL last season. That's just objectively true, one of the great things about PFF, removes "feelings" fans might have, replaces them with facts.

They're replacing exactly one player from the line and they have valid candidates in Teller and Kush... and then more competent primary backups (Lamm, Kush, Forbes) than I can recall us ever having.

By all indications, Robinson is still ascending as a player, still getting his technique to catch up to his combination of size, strength, and athleticism. He's was just fine last season but by all accounts, he's expected to be better than that in 2019.

Agree to disagree... but I recall hearing how horrible our line was last season, right up until we installed way better humans at OC, QB, and RB. Suddenly our line was damn near perfect, Chubb ran wild, and Baker didn't get touched. Oh, and we got way better at OL coach, who might be the most impactful position coach, so much about scheme and continuity.

Reminded me of 2007, another horrible line that got good real suddenly. Hmm.
 
The Browns traded away THE top RG. The only pluses on the line are LG and maybe C when healthy. The tackles are extremely vulnerable to speed rush. The RG and depth are unclear. I have yet to see the OL win individual battles or move bodies which to me is a red flag. The fact that Freddy Kitchens has said “right now” every time Kush is mentioned should clue you in that they are not “happy” with the OL.

I think you see one more significant move on OL in next 24-72 hours before week one, especially if Forbes heads to IR
 
I'll agree on Forbes and IR, that would force a move. I have no idea what his situation is but it's not a serious injury, clearly.

We don't have to analyze vulnerabilities in a predictive way because we've already seen the line play... and for the back half of last season, they were one of the very best OLs in football. We're returning 4 of 5 starters and adding one of the best OL coaches in the game.

Having the best or highest paid guards in the league (or the best/richest OBLBs) is horrible team building, and it can doom you to mediocrity for years. You have to do what the Browns did, tear it all down and then do it right.

Trading Zeitler for Vernon was exactly the right thing to do, shift dollars away from a position that doesn't impact that modern game a lot... to someone who absolutely does, who combine with Garrett can just destroy an entire offensive game plan. They look devastating together.

It makes sense. You replace one of your two elite and highly paid guards with a "good enough" guard. With Kush in, the line looked terrific for a few series in the first two games and then not so good last game. That's literally the sole source of any panic, one half of your QB not getting hit. At all.

Either Kush or Teller will provide baseline or above guard play and the line will be perfectly sound, especially with a mobile, quick-release QB. Getting Campen and (say) Teller in and Zeitler out? Feels like the right move for the cap over the expansive playoff window.
 
I didn’t comment on the cost of the guard play what I said was that you replaced the top player in the league with a subpar player. The offensive line is what is we’ve seen, there’s been no push there’s been no run blocking and the pass protection has been awful. Players all around Mayfield’s feet. This season goes as Mayfield’s health goes.
 
Forbes does not go on IR, must just be a sprain.

Not sure who ends up on the OL roster by game day, but I think I like what we've done. Teller was a really strong acquisition who likely gives us the long-term "above baseline" RG we need to round out the starting five. He's got that nastiness and absurd strength I like in a RG.

We should be roughly the same OL we saw last season, which was really good. Baker was clean most of the time. Phil, the line has been really good both in most preseason games (including the last one) and in practice where Joe Thomas and others have remarked on how good G-Rob looks.

I get that RG was kind of that one spot on the team worthy of discussion. But having Teller and Kush makes it a really low stakes issue. Both are very good pass blockers, if you're worried about Baker, who still hasn't taken a hit since getting here.

You're a terrific poster but I'll respectfully say you're being alarmist here. As Browns fans, we've seen "bad lines," and this isn't that.
 
I’ll be fine when I see this team run block week 1. Sobo seems to think these moves push Forbes to learn RT. My worry will be when we play a team like Seattle who will eat our tackles for lunch and have Baker losing his accuracy. I hope I am wrong.
 
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