The Offensive Line | Page 15 |

The Offensive Line

Freddie's creativity is BACK, and it's made everyone look and be better.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/Tommy_sloms?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Tommy_sloms</a> And Baltimore had one of the highest rates of QB hits in the league over the first three weeks.</p>— Adam Wheeler (@WheelsUpInCle) <a href="https://twitter.com/WheelsUpInCle/status/1179076788921802754?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Absolutely. Having the starting OL available and gelling, plus better playcalls/creativity and getting the ball out WAY faster... and Baker trusting the pocket...

Like I always say: "It's never just one thing, is it?"
 
Browns are tied for 4th in the NFL in "pass block win rate," but basically right at the top (Browns 64%, leader 66). They're pass blocking extremely well, all season long.

The point? Even when it was bad, was mostly on others, not the OL. And the odds that you put up those numbers and don't have a LT playing really well? About zero.
 
Mary Kay just wrote what I've been saying: As a unit, the line functions at a high level when healthy, and that includes Hubbard... but Kush is clearly the weakest link. He's better suited to be a quality IOL swing.

Like me, she thinks the Browns would love to get Wyatt Teller into the starting lineup at RG, they feel (or should feel) like that's their best five and it's pretty damn good.

After seeing the night/day of Hubbard in the lineup, I'm less and less inclined to think Robinson-Bitonio-Tretter-Teller-Hubbard shouldn't be their long-term OL. Eager to see it. Hubbard's on watch, interesting to see how he plays the rest of the season.
 
Update: Noticed that Pluto echoed what Mary Kay wrote, that it wouldn't surprise anybody if the Browns made the switch to Teller soon.

When two writers do that on back to back days, makes me think they're hearing some secondhand chatter. Usually ends up happening, or at least often.

You don't upset the apple cart if it's rolling smoothly, even if one apple is a little less shiny than the others. But I also get that the Browns didn't trade a future possible maybe 7th for Teller, they traded a right now 5 and a right now 6. That's a serious price for a guard who isn't a full-time starter for his current team. That's certainty (and the film earns it).

I think bye week.
 
It's kind of like the Chiefs and Cam Erving last year. He played horrible by every measure and eye-test, but it was working, so they let it go.

Still, agree. Kush is one more bad game away from seeing Teller step in. He better not mildly sprain anything, because that'll be that.

And I bet if Dorsey could get a 7th for Kush, and force Campen's hand, he would. Even like a 2022 7th or something.
 
The interesting thing is, teams that would have been in the running, are now kinda out, due to their record, as there are 8 teams with 0 or 1 wins rolling into week 6.

I'd give Hubbard and a 2nd. Mayyyyybe Avery too.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Now the Redskins need to change their stance and trade Trent Williams. A 7-time Pro Bowl OT is collecting dust right now while Washington spirals to 0-5. Put an end to the stubbornness.</p>— Field Yates (@FieldYates) <a href="https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1181169830403153920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 7, 2019</a></blockquote>
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LT is doing okay though.

I know I use PFF too much on here, but it's at least somewhat of a comparison.

G-Rob is outgrading Bakhtiari, Zues Jr, Villanueva, & Solder to this point.

Of course, McCray is outgrading Hubbard. Ha.
 
I think it was Burns who showed how both tackles are actually a little better this year than they were down the stretch in happier days last year. Still not giving up sacks (I think G-Rob has 1) and hits are way down.

Until last Monday, the starting OL had been consistently good both running and passing. The troubles came when one of them (and Lamm) were down.

Kush had been playing decently until the last two weeks, which he's mostly spent on skates and in the backfield, which is not super cool for any 6' QB. Baker's never had a batted ball issue, seeing a lot more of it this year. His ability to climb the pocket has been greatly diminished, first by his imagination and then by reality.

From a factual, statistical POV, Kush has indeed become the weak link. Some insider-ey digging says those are the reasons we haven't been hearing about Teller, someone the Browns were extremely aggressive in acquiring (2 picks):

- Kush wasn't a problem until the Ravens game, which we won with a lot of offense, and that tends to prevent making changes. He was just horrible last game but we're on a short week now.

- Teller has played way more LG then RG (has played some, and some RT too) and it's not as easy as some people think, unless you're a swing practicing both.

- After this game is our bye. It'll be interesting to see if they go for it. Kush has become the clear weak link, so if you're gonna make a move (you wouldn't make more than one, not in-season), it's obvious now where to make it.
 
It's not about being all-world, Gabe, although I know you're teasing. It's that he actually has been "pretty good," like 22nd out of 64 starting OTs per PFF. He's allowed only 1 sack and 2 hits which is the point of a LT, really.

Kush has been horrible and Hubbard is actually 65th out of 64 and I'm not kidding. If we want to actually pinpoint who's playing well (Tretter and Bitonio), who's playing pretty well (Robinson, holds too much and does allow "pressure" that makes Baker skitty), and who's playing really bad (mostly Kush but also Hubbard).

Now that Lamm is healthy, they're letting him compete at LT, Teller at RG, and McCray at RT. Sadly, the worst replacement is at RT, not LT. Lamm is actually a good fit for Campen, very athletic, and Pete Smith said you'd assume an uptick in pass blocking (at least potentially) but maybe a downtick in run blocking.

I think you'd hope for an uptick on all fronts from Teller.

Sounded unlikely that we get Williams. For my two cents? I'd definitely swap in Teller. I'd tend to be patient with the rest. Lamm has real LT traits, wouldn't hate to see what Campen's done with him.
 
True. But keeping it real on how Robinson is actually performing. MK clarified that too. I have no sway (and don't really care, as long as it works) on what Dorsey does with the line... but I do worry when we fix the parts that aren't broken and leave the parts that are.

Again, nobody really cares what I think and that's the way it should be, but I'd sit Kush for Teller and only make a tackle change if Lamm can play RT. I mean, unless it's Trent Williams coming to town.
 
Just reading this old thread
frustrating how many of us were jumping up and down sayin
we need o-line help in the draft
drew forbes at #189 (6th round)
a tad underwhelming

OconRecon said:
Would be happy with adding any of these OT's. From Matt Miller's big board:

9 OT JONAH WILLIAMS - ALABAMA
20 OT JAWAAN TAYLOR - FLORIDA
36 OT ANDRE DILLARD - WASHINGTON STATE
48 OT KALEB MCGARY - WASHINGTON
52 OT DALTON RISNER - KANSAS STATE
69 OT TYTUS HOWARD - ALABAMA STATE
76 OT GREG LITTLE - OLE MISS
79 OT YODNY CAJUSTE - WEST VIRGINIA
95 OT DAVID EDWARDS - WISCONSIN
101 OT MAX SCHARPING - NORTHERN ILLINOIS
Click to expand...

Risner and McGary are now NFL starters and are playing particularly well
a strong class of o-linemen

max scharping,martez Ivey,tytus howard,bobby evans,wyatt miller and denis daley
all lefties and 1 of them will absolutely be there in the 5th round (and later)
If you want a project going forward - here they are.
I guess it comes down to old fashioned scouting to select the best prospect
and pick accordingly.

I like the idea of doing all that AND keeping robinson

IMO robinson looked better in the 2nd half of the season because
the browns coaches changed the offensive scheme to a "lets not get our QB killed" strategy
max protect schemes(2 te's and 2 rb's),quick crosses/outs,screens etc
which worked wonderfully

but If they go back to a more traditional offensive strategy robinson maybe exposed
bulletproof baker may get cracked pretty well IF that happens
I like the idea of bringing up one of these OT prospects as a plan B
Click to expand...

and not just robinson
but the entire OFF got exposed when we changed scheme's
the o-line is the beating heart of an OFF
not an afterthought

I thought It was a good draft
giving up that 5th round pick (I guess was for an o-lineman)
for greedy was, I thought too expensive for 3 places in the 2nd
none of those teams selected a CB anyway

at any rate only 2 of our drafted players are starting
seibert and wilson (gillan was not drafted)
 
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IMO robinson looked better in the 2nd half of the season because
the browns coaches changed the offensive scheme to a "lets not get our QB killed" strategy
max protect schemes(2 te's and 2 rb's),quick crosses/outs,screens etc
which worked wonderfully

but If they go back to a more traditional offensive strategy robinson maybe exposed
bulletproof baker may get cracked pretty well IF that happens
I like the idea of bringing up one of these OT prospects as a plan B
Click to expand...

That certainly came to fruition.

I haven't seen any of the backups in practice, and very little in games, to know if they would be better than the current starters. I find it troubling that Teller hasn't clearly shown that he should be starting after 8 weeks on the roster.

I read that Dorsey wanted to sign GRob to a longer term contract, but GRob wanted another 1 year prove-it deal. It takes more guts than brains to listen to your agents and bet on yourself, and that's commendable, but it may prove detrimental to his wallet in the long run.

Maybe it would be best to just go back to the "don't get the QB killed" offensive philosophy with a healthy Higgins.

-Al
 
BTW, "The Insiders" backed what MK and PFF both pointed out, that Robinson has definitely been "the best of the worst," suggesting that's the feeling within the building, too. I think Kush has been the worst while the Insiders thought that would be Hubbard.

They said (and I agree) that Robinson isn't as consistent as you'd like. I'd add that he holds a lot, seems to get us behind the chains. But he's definitely our third best OL.
 
I just hope we understand the importance of our line
and draft at least 2 OT's and a guard within our 1st 5 picks

look at pittsburgh
they change QB's and RB's and don't miss a beat
the line is that solid
it dont matter who's in the back field

baker is short
that does not mean he cant play but he does have limitations
he needs an above average o-line
to blast open those passing lanes for him

most of his throws are A gap plays
So the C and G's must be doing ok keeping those lanes open
thats why he mostly throws between the hash marks down the middle
and most TD's are to his tall TE's

the B gaps? not so much
the OT's are struggling (holding penalties just mean you got beaten)
so he doesn't often throw to the outside through the B gap
we need a dominant line for baker - not just a good one.

So when he runs from a "clean" pocket
and we all go "WTF?"
its because those A gaps are closed (like bart scott said)
his only chance now is to get outside his tackle
to make a play

we need some 1st round talent on that line
I would be happy If we used our top 3 picks on the o-line
although S is a big problem too
not as big
 
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