With the 21st pick in the NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Phil Taylor!

[Solon16]

Hey doom and gloom, I didn't think Hardesty was washed up yet. Do you judge a draft on year one? BTW, Hardesty didn't reinjure a knee, it was a new injury. Heaven forbid if we discounted every player who was ever injured. So, Dr. Bronx, if the CC or our doctors evaluate a guy as clean and healthy, what should the coaches and GM do? Ward had prior injury problems. There is no indication that Taylor has any leg problems. Big boys with bad attitudes are scary also.

Hell let's pass on them all and take a guy with a screw in his foot. I guess that's not a medical issue. Heaven forbid what would you have said if we took a guy who does really have a foot problem and we knew it.

A few extra picks, so what.................who wants to build a team the right way? I'd rather keep picking #6 for the next ten years.

We got to get you a job in this FO because you have all the answers before they even make their second pick in the draft. You are da man.

DUDE...Its not the player...its the GM who jumps the gun when there is NO NEED to... Gave a butt load of draft picks away last year for hardesty(load Blown) and #70 this year(grab the kleenex) This TREND SUCKS and smacks of savage... IMO!

 

[Bronx Cheer]

Hey doom and gloom, I didn't think Hardesty was washed up yet. Do you judge a draft on year one? BTW, Hardesty didn't reinjure a knee, it was a new injury. Heaven forbid if we discounted every player who was ever injured. So, Dr. Bronx, if the CC or our doctors evaluate a guy as clean and healthy, what should the coaches and GM do? Ward had prior injury problems. There is no indication that Taylor has any leg problems. Big boys with bad attitudes are scary also.

I really didn't have much problem with the Hardesty pick, but he was different. He was a "there is nobody left like him on the board, so let's roll the dice" pick. Taylor is more of a "holy crap there are 5 great DLers left and we're only 6 picks away, let's overpay to trade up" pick.

Guys who tip 350 and have leg/foot bone or cartilage problems? That is a REALLY scary type of health concern. So scary it made Bowers drop from potential #1 overall to the second round.

 

[Tobalaz]

I'm hearing a lot of "This year, this year, this year"......
Really?
Since when did we get 1-2 guys away from a Superbowl?
Every year all I hear is "flash" and "impact" but there's nothing there already that allows those high picks to play up to their potential.
Everyone with a grain of sense KNOWS our cupboards are bare and we need good, solid guys.
Ladies and gentlemen, we put the 2x4s down to lay the foundation but there's no concrete on the ground yet.
Fact of the matter is we STILL got a guy we wanted plus 3 extra picks, 2 of those next draft.
We've got 2 1st rounders next draft, something NE seems to manage every season, something one of the best teams in the NFL manages to do year in and out.
And we're going to bitch about it?
Say McCoy isn't the guy we thought he was, we'll be in a perfect spot to trade up and get Andrew Luck.
Still need that big time receiver because McCoy shows himself to be that real deal?
Justin Blackmon is a pick away.
All we can do this season is plug holes with as many solid starters as we can manage because dear god there are a lot of holes to be plugged.

We've been swinging for the fences with our first pick for how many seasons now?
And enlighten me, how has that worked out?

I remember the Jimmy Johnson philosophy, the more picks you've got the better the chance you've got on hitting on them, the better you're team is going to be.
This could very well be our Herschel Walker trade, something that gives us an assload of quality players that we've been missing to this point that is the verification we've turned the corner.

 

[Bronx Cheer]

e've been swinging for the fences with our first pick for how many seasons now?
And enlighten me, how has that worked out?

What picks were swing for the fences types? The LT? Trading back ten times to get a center? The CB?

Please tell me how long of a plan we are on. Three seasons? Five? When someone says be patient, how long are we talking about?

 

[Bronx Cheer]

I remember the Jimmy Johnson philosophy, the more picks you've got the better the chance you've got on hitting on them, the better you're team is going to be.
This could very well be our Herschel Walker trade, something that gives us an assload of quality players that we've been missing to this point that is the verification we've turned the corner.

We got exactly net 3 extra picks out of these trades. Two very low 4ths (1 in 5 shots even to be on your roster in three years, 1 in 10 shots to be a starter), and a pick next year likely in the 25-32 range. Excuse me if I don't really put much value in those 4ths.

One extra pick of any real value! In the immortal words of Derrick Coleman, "whoop-de-damn-doo."

 

[YtownBacker]

I really didn't have much problem with the Hardesty pick, but he was different. He was a "there is nobody left like him on the board, so let's roll the dice" pick. Taylor is more of a "holy crap there are 5 great DLers left and we're only 6 picks away, let's overpay to trade up" pick.

Guys who tip 350 and have leg/foot bone or cartilage problems? That is a REALLY scary type of health concern. So scary it made Bowers drop from potential #1 overall to the second round.

Obviously Heckert, Holmgren ad the coaching staff didn't think that way.

Also, for the tenth time someone has said this to you.................he doesn't have foot or health problems. There is no history or no record of any problems with his feet. What's scary you can't except it even after expert from around the league have said the report was bogus.

 

[YtownBacker]

I'm hearing a lot of "This year, this year, this year"......
Really?
Since when did we get 1-2 guys away from a Superbowl?
Every year all I hear is "flash" and "impact" but there's nothing there already that allows those high picks to play up to their potential.
Everyone with a grain of sense KNOWS our cupboards are bare and we need good, solid guys.
Ladies and gentlemen, we put the 2x4s down to lay the foundation but there's no concrete on the ground yet.
Fact of the matter is we STILL got a guy we wanted plus 3 extra picks, 2 of those next draft.
We've got 2 1st rounders next draft, something NE seems to manage every season, something one of the best teams in the NFL manages to do year in and out.
And we're going to bitch about it?
Say McCoy isn't the guy we thought he was, we'll be in a perfect spot to trade up and get Andrew Luck.
Still need that big time receiver because McCoy shows himself to be that real deal?
Justin Blackmon is a pick away.
All we can do this season is plug holes with as many solid starters as we can manage because dear god there are a lot of holes to be plugged.

We've been swinging for the fences with our first pick for how many seasons now?
And enlighten me, how has that worked out?

I remember the Jimmy Johnson philosophy, the more picks you've got the better the chance you've got on hitting on them, the better you're team is going to be.
This could very well be our Herschel Walker trade, something that gives us an assload of quality players that we've been missing to this point that is the verification we've turned the corner.

It's like talking to the wall dude. This is the way Bill Walsh (49ers), Ron Wolf (GB), the Dallas Cowboys, the Pats and Philly all did it. It's how you build a team. But, to some it's not sexy. This management team we have gets it and are on the right track.

 

[Tobalaz]

Let's see....
Brady Quinn?
Kam Wimbley?
Braylon Edwards?
Kellen Winslow?
Willian Green?
Gerrard Warren?
Courtney Brown?
Tim Couch?

That's 8 of 12 past drafts, 75% swing for the fences, 75% bust rate, all supposed "impact players" at the time.
The Thomas and Mack picks were good, solid picks you start building a team with, problem is we had idiots running the show at the time so those are the only picks we hit on in those drafts.
We've never done well in later rounds since the return, hell, we never did well past the first round, hell, we were pretty much for shit in the first round as well!
We've dafted poorly and we've failed to develop players. Good teams can do both.
Last season's draft we nabbed 3 starters, 3! We all know it took injuries to the decrepit old under-performing has-beens for Mangini to play a young guy, so Lauvao has a good chance to be starter #4 from last season and Hardesty is looking to split the load with Hillis, keeping both healthy. Mitchell was touted as a WCO type wr, maybe he'll do something as well?
And how did that draft start?
With us drafting a corner, remember how we didn't "need" a corner because we already had Sheldon "Lost a Step" Brown and Eric "I'm only better than the worst we've got" Wright projected as starters?
Heckert took Haden and people thought us nuts for doing it.
Looks like Heckert did one hell of a job evaluating the garbage and knew what to go after.
Have some faith!

 

[Greythan]

its the GM who jumps the gun when there is NO NEED to

Says who? Amazing how you completely discount the probability that the sole reason Heckert moved up is because Taylor would have gone before 27 (like maybe to Pittsburgh).

Guys who tip 350 and have leg/foot bone or cartilage problems? That is a REALLY scary type of health concern. So scary it made Bowers drop from potential #1 overall to the second round

Get the facts straight. The rumor about bones in his foot "fusing together" was just that... rumor. The Browns had MRI's done of his foot to confirm that, indeed, there are no medical issues. As for his weight, there are a ton (ha ha) of 335#+ guys playing in the league. Its part of the deal... you have to manage their weight. Heckert knows this and is obviously confident this kid will deal with it.

We got exactly net 3 extra picks out of these trades. Two very low 4ths (1 in 5 shots even to be on your roster in three years, 1 in 10 shots to be a starter), and a pick next year likely in the 25-32 range. Excuse me if I don't really put much value in those 4ths.

One extra pick of any real value! In the immortal words of Derrick Coleman, "whoop-de-damn-doo."

Not quite accurate. In addition to the first rounder next year, we traded a 3rd for a 2nd. That's real value. Also, throwing the two fourth round picks out is silly. Sure, they are of lesser value, but both have currency in either selecting a player or trade packaging.

 

[golfer704u]

before people get too far into one side or the other, make sure your arguing who you are supposed to be arguing with. If I understand Solon's point correctly. he is 100% fine with the trade down from 6 to 27 and all the picks we got. What he's not ok with is trading BACK up and losign a 3rd round pick to move 6 spots and grab a guy where there would be similar talent if we just stayed put.

I tend to agree with him. Again, someone guarantee me that Taylor will be above and beyond better for the Browns than eitehr wilkerson or heyward would have been. And then realize, if you get wilkerson or heyward, you also get another guy in the 3rd round.

So again, it all comes down to, they must have wanted Taylor real bad, which means he better be good.

 

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Love the woe is me types ...all the typical characters. Doesn't matter if it's Mangenius, Heckert, Holmgren, Savage ...etc. It's always one step from being run out of town.


The only guy on the entire board the Browns would have even considered drafting with a trade offer like that in your lap ...was A.J. Green.

We still got who we wanted, a dominating plug in the middle of the line, and a guy who was rated much higher on the Browns board then where we picked him.

Anybody who isn't ecstatic about the fleecing of Atlanta and our future prospects in the draft needs their heads examined.

 

[YtownBacker]

Anybody who isn't ecstatic about the fleecing of Atlanta and our future prospects in the draft needs their heads examined.

And most the draft pundits and analysts are saying the same thing.

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

Guys, they got a king's ransom for Julio Jones.

Think of what the Falcons gave the Browns for Jones and then ask yourself if there's a single WR in the NFL right now that you'd give that up for. Would you do it for Andre Johnson? Roddy White? Calvin Johnson? I wouldn't.

And they gave us that for Julio Jones. A completely unproven man with a highlight reel of drops. Who I think will be good, mind you, but come on.

Take the $200,000 they just offered for your 2010 Honda Accord and be happy.

 

[damajuki]

Good golly, Joe Montana? Really?

Have to disagree with ya bro...Joe montana was a third rounder...We do not know...but bet that I will track the pick we gave away.

Well, as long as we're going to use perhaps the greatest third-round pick in history (from FORTY YEARS AGO, no less), sure, it's a tremendous mistake to trade that 3rd rounder.

And by all means, track #70. If I cared enough, I'd go back and look at every #70 of all time and run the numbers. I'm going to go the lazy route and guess: less than 25% mattered to their original teams, by any measure you choose.

Really, I don't get this fascination with the 3rd rounder, Solon. Between shep and his WR frustration and you and your 3rd round frustration, one could get the impression THE ACTUAL PLAYER WE GOT doesn't matter a bit to you.

As Spock would say: Fascinating.

 

[DeadWombat]

Just posted in the chat, but it should go here:

The more I read about Taylor the more I realized he sounds a HELL OF A FREAKIN' LOT like Shaun Rogers.... Huge, talented, takes up space, requires double teams..... suspect work ethic, character faults, rumored to be lazy, struggles with his weight....

Yea. Don't get me wrong: I loved Shaun Rogers..... especially when he ACTUALLY PLAYED. So, yea. Shaun Rogers. Anywho, I have a reserved hopefulness about Talyor. I'm definitely not sold on this pick yet.... and I'm mad we traded up to get him, losing a 3rd rounder for it.

I love that we fleeced the Falcons out of 5 picks, though. HA!

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

By the way, has someone checked on Shep? I'm worried.

 

[Dan in Florida]

 

[Alo]

I agree with Heck and Dan Shonka <-- that's a really good combo

 

[Solon16]

before people get too far into one side or the other, make sure your arguing who you are supposed to be arguing with. If I understand Solon's point correctly. he is 100% fine with the trade down from 6 to 27 and all the picks we got. What he's not ok with is trading BACK up and losign a 3rd round pick to move 6 spots and grab a guy where there would be similar talent if we just stayed put.

I tend to agree with him. Again, someone guarantee me that Taylor will be above and beyond better for the Browns than eitehr wilkerson or heyward would have been. And then realize, if you get wilkerson or heyward, you also get another guy in the 3rd round.

So again, it all comes down to, they must have wanted Taylor real bad, which means he better be good.

I can only state the same thing 50 times before I give up...

I am not fine with the trade down...I am fantastically ecstatic about it!!

But trading the HIGH 3rd round pick right after to move up 6 spots ....for me equates to....

finding 100 dollar bill on the ground and then getting robbed.

 

[damajuki]

Recent #70s. Warning: DULL

I can only state the same thing 50 times before I give up...

I am not fine with the trade down...I am fantastically ecstatic about it!!

But trading the HIGH 3rd round pick right after to move up 6 spots ....for me equates to....

finding 100 dollar bill on the ground and then getting robbed.

Solon, I'm going to post this here, not to be a pain but to make sure it gets seen. I think you are barking up (ha! punny!) the wrong tree with this #70 thing.

Recent #70s going back five years:

2010 BLT TE Ed Dickson

2009 CIN DE Michael Johnson

2008 CHI WR Earl Bennett

2007 DEN OT Ryan Harris

2006 BUF CB Ashton Youboty

Okay, I'm officially bored already. Do you concede? Are you pumped up by any of these guys?

I agree with your general point about not wasting picks moving around but I can't get behind your #70 point based on this sample.