With the 21st pick in the NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Phil Taylor! | Page 6 | Barking Hard

With the 21st pick in the NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Phil Taylor!

Let's at least be honest here... and let me say it for everybody: Phil... fucking... TAYLOR?

I love the second round. And we're all hoping Heckert is a genius. But he wasn't on our radar, period. So let's not front.

We're all pretty stunned, whether we wanna be honest or not.
 
Speak for yourself.

I love the pick and was not really all that surprised at all. He fits what we want to do to a "T".. Stuff the run, collapse the pocket with him and Ruben.. If the QB cannot step up to throw.. he's screwed.. Sheard to put pressure from the outside..It's a smart way to build a team. We are changing defensive systems to a 4-3 in a physical division that will run the ball down your throat for 45 of 60 minutes if you show you can't stop it. It fills both needs.. pressure on the QB and stuffing the run.

I was more surprised we actually picked Little.. very pleasantly surprised.. I'm so glad we did not get Cobb or one of the other shrimpy recievers.. Very solid draft and we have an extra #1 and #4 to work with next year to keep building this thing.. We still have holes to fill, but no way to do that in just one draft anyway.. We covered a couple well this year.
 
Well... okay. Then you stand alone. I read maybe 400 mocks and didn't ONCE see Taylor to a 4-3 team, period, let alone the Browns. He was in the first round about 33%, I'd say, usually to the Chiefs.

He was never, ever, ever associated with the Browns. Not only was he seen as a 3-4 NT, it was assumed that the Browns had an "over" in Rubin and wanted an "under," like Fairley, Austin, Nevis, etc.

BUT... I realize it wasn't an accident. The Browns traded a third round pick to move six spots to make sure they got Bob Smith (I actually forgot his name for a second). So assuming they were working their asses off, and I do assume that... this is a guy they wanted pretty bad.

So I'm keeping an open mind. But I'd never hard of the guy until he showed up in mocks a month ago or so, always late one to late two, always as a NT to a 3-4 team.
 
Brown Warrior said:
Let's at least be honest here... and let me say it for everybody: Phil... fucking... TAYLOR?

I love the second round. And we're all hoping Heckert is a genius. But he wasn't on our radar, period. So let's not front.

We're all pretty stunned, whether we wanna be honest or not.
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A little over a week ago, I was the Browns' GM in a 7 round draft simulation. Look who I picked.
 
Alo said:
A little over a week ago, I was the Browns' GM in a 7 round draft simulation. Look who I picked.
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A. As a second rounder? That's where I usually saw him.

B. Why Phil Taylor, A? Why did you see him as a fit?

C. I hate your mock. But you would've guessed that. Love you... hate your mock. You'd hate mine right back.

D. I read 400 mocks. No Phil Taylor to a 4-3 team. You know I'm right.
 
I go by what I see on tape, not mock drafts. Sorry if that sounds snotty, but it's true.

He's been in the 1st round of some mocks ever since Rob Rang said in November that scouts were predicting he'd end up there. And I personally considered giving him to the Saints in my mock because he's not a pure 3-4 guy and seemed like a good understudy to Shaun Rogers: they're similar players.
 
Brown Warrior said:
Well... okay. Then you stand alone. I read maybe 400 mocks and didn't ONCE see Taylor to a 4-3 team, period, let alone the Browns. He was in the first round about 33%, I'd say, usually to the Chiefs.

He was never, ever, ever associated with the Browns. Not only was he seen as a 3-4 NT, it was assumed that the Browns had an "over" in Rubin and wanted an "under," like Fairley, Austin, Nevis, etc.

BUT... I realize it wasn't an accident. The Browns traded a third round pick to move six spots to make sure they got Bob Smith (I actually forgot his name for a second). So assuming they were working their asses off, and I do assume that... this is a guy they wanted pretty bad.

So I'm keeping an open mind. But I'd never hard of the guy until he showed up in mocks a month ago or so, always late one to late two, always as a NT to a 3-4 team.
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Thanks for making my point for me:


Exactly why you and I don't work in the nfl as scouts or GM's. So youre not familiar with the guy. So what. Your not paid to be familiar with him. The Browns pay people to be familiar with these guys. Face it, we don't know what they do. You assume too much my friend. You put too much credit into mocks and the info they provide. These guys collectively put thousands of hours into film study..and you??


We don't get to see the actual GM's big board..We get to see an analysts big board who is looking at all players for all teams..Not ONE GM, looking for guys, for ONE team. They are much more focused on what they are looking for. We never see that angle. That's why I say you assume too much and you put too much stock into mocks and trusting people to tell you where guys fit and where they don't.


Taylor played on a 4-3 team.. It's logical to me he would again into a 4-3 team in the NFL. Sure he also looked promising for a 3-4 team as NT..that's how good he was.. and DT's for 3-4 teams are harder to find..the analysts assumed a 3-4 team would be the one to grab him. That never meant he was not a fit for a 4-3. You don't know what you think you know. I don't know much, but I do know that a guy who was a beast in a 4-3 in college, who can also project to play a 3-4 NT.. can play the middle on any DL.


I look at our team unit by unit. It's obvious we needed help bigtime across the DL at every spot. I've been begging for DL picks on this team for 8 years now..it's been neglected up til now..and it's a huge part of the reason we have sucked. The couple picks we took in the past were busts and otherwise the DL has been highly neglected. With the transition to this new 4-3 defense, it could not afford to again be neglected.. So picks across the DL were no brainers in my book.
 
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damajuki said:
Nice list. No doubt guys are available in the 3rd.

I picked 70 for a reason, though. That's our pick. If you went up and done the 3rd round, OF COURSE you will find guys. There's no argument there.

I'm really only picking on you because you seem to have given ZERO credence/time/thought/electrons to the key point here: PHIL TAYLOR IS UNIQUE IN THIS DRAFT.

There might be other players who are good, but there weren't many (if any) or are as big and fast. So you keep saying "We could have waited and gotten someone in the 1st and 3rd" but you discount completely the fact there was only ONE Phil Taylor.

Do I expect you to like every pick? Of course not. But I would love to hear WHY you didn't like THIS pick besides just repeating you wanted to keep the 3rd round pick.
And am I sheep/apologist? Of course! What choice do I have? What the hell do I know about how good these guys are? And why would it matter anyway? I'm a fan. I'm excited about new hope. That's what the draft is for, after all.
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Dude NEVER EVER did I say I didn't like Phil Taylor...I am the only person on this board that touted Phil Taylor pre-draft. I am the one who said I'd love Phil Taylor next to Rubin...and I had Alo and shep say he's a NT...I said he played in a 4-3 and was athletic enough to play 3 technique...JESUS....! Whoosh I'd NEVER give up a HIGH 3rd rounder to move up 6 spots unless I was moving from 16 to 10...No fucking credit on this board at all.
 
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Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about a young Indian's promotion, the spotlight on LeBron and impressions of a big new Brown

About the Browns ...


1. After sitting through Phil Taylor's press conference, it's obvious the Browns' first-round pick is one massive man. He is listed at 6-3, 337 pounds. He doesn't seem fat, just enormous. He answered questions without adding a lot of detail, mostly coming across as guy who seems sincere and doesn't think you need to talk a lot about what he does.

2. Can he play? I find it impossible to evaluate these huge guys in the middle of the defensive line. You need to know the defensive schemes, the talent around him. I don't know a lot about Baylor football.

3. But I tend to favor what this front office does. Tom Heckert has a record of solid drafting. New coach Pat Shurmur is an offensive guy, but he really seemed thrilled by the pick. The Browns obviously need defensive linemen. I sense this guy is their T.J. Ward, the player they targeted last season -- someone they rated higher than many other teams.

4. Kansas City definitely had an interest in Taylor, and the Browns believed the Chiefs would take him -- unless they could make a deal. So they offered the third-round pick. There also were concerns that Baltimore or Philadelphia would take Taylor -- all picking before the Browns at 27. Taylor was definitely the Browns' main target, so they decided not to gamble and wait.

5. Taylor's value was helped by the fact that he has the classic size for a 3-4 nose guard, but has always played in the 4-3 defense. That means he could play in either defensive scheme. As for second-rounder Jabaal Sheard, he fits into the pass rushing defensive end in the 4-3 defense that Heckert likes. He believes those 250-pounders who are supposed to become outside linebackers in the 3-4 are much better suited to stay at their natural position and go get the quarterback in the 4-3.

6. Here is a reality that the Browns are facing -- their run defense has been awful ever since the franchise returned in 1999. In the last seven years, they never ranked better than 27th against the run. Their highest rating since 1999 was 23rd in 2003.

7. This team hasn't even had a mediocre run defense since 1999. The hope is that with a 4-3 anchored by Ahtyba Rubin and Taylor in the middle, that can change. But they also will need a play-making middle linebacker. Not sure Chris Gocong is that type of player.

8. I do give the Browns credit for not playing to the crowd, as most fans would have loved to see them grab receiver Julio Jones at No. 6. Or if they had picked someone besides a nose tackle at No. 21. Da'Quan Bowers would have been the popular choice, but the Browns seem to think Taylor is a better bet.

9. Of the final eight teams in the 2010 playoffs, all but Seattle ranked in the top eight of the fewest points allowed. In terms of yards allowed, five playoff teams ranked in the top 10: Pittsburgh (2), Jets (3), Packers (5), Bears (9) and Ravens (10). For good reason, the Browns are focusing on defense.

10. It was nice to see Peyton Hillis be the one announcing the choice of Taylor on draft night. It would be great if Hillis can have another 1,000-yard rushing season, because this franchise is really looking for players whose jerseys they can proudly wear. Perhaps that will happen with the emergence of Joe Haden, Colt McCoy, Joe Thomas, Ward and of course, Joshua Cribbs.

Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about a young Indian's promotion, the spotlight on LeBron and impressions of a big new Brown | cleveland.com
 
Brown Warrior said:
Well... okay. Then you stand alone. I read maybe 400 mocks and didn't ONCE see Taylor to a 4-3 team, period, let alone the Browns. He was in the first round about 33%, I'd say, usually to the Chiefs.

He was never, ever, ever associated with the Browns. Not only was he seen as a 3-4 NT, it was assumed that the Browns had an "over" in Rubin and wanted an "under," like Fairley, Austin, Nevis, etc.

BUT... I realize it wasn't an accident. The Browns traded a third round pick to move six spots to make sure they got Bob Smith (I actually forgot his name for a second). So assuming they were working their asses off, and I do assume that... this is a guy they wanted pretty bad.

So I'm keeping an open mind. But I'd never hard of the guy until he showed up in mocks a month ago or so, always late one to late two, always as a NT to a 3-4 team.
Click to expand...

Thanks for making my point for me:

Exactly why you and I don't work in the nfl as scouts or GM's. You say your not familiar with the guy. You're not paid to be. You assume too much my friend. You put too much credit into mocks and the info they provide. These GM and scout team collectively put thousands of hours into film study..and you?? They are looking at how guys fit on THEIR team.. analysts are looking more at the nfl as a whole.

An analyst is ONE guy putting a mock together for all teams. They cannot do the film study that a GM and an entire scouting department can do. It's humanly impossible.. So the teams are going to do a better, more detailed ,and intensive job than these analysts have the capacity to do. We don't get to see the actual GM's big board..We get to see an analysts big board who is looking at all players, for all teams.. We never see the GM angle and how they build their board from an entire department of guys doing research for spots on ONE team. That's why I say you assume too much and you put too much stock into mocks and trusting people to tell you where guys fit and where they don't.

Taylor played on a 4-3 team.. So why would not not again fit into a 4-3 team?? Sure he also looked promising for a 3-4 team..that's how good he was.. and DT's for 3-4 teams are harder to find..the analysts assumed a 3-4 team would be the one to grab him. That never meant he was not a fit for a 4-3. You don't know what you think you know. I don't know much, but I do know that a guy who was a beast in a 4-3 in college, who can also project to play a 3-4 NT.. can play the middle on any DL.

I look at our whole team unit by unit. It's obvious we needed help bigtime across the DL at every spot. I've been begging for DL picks on this team for 8 years now..it's been neglected up til now..and it's part of the reason we have sucked. The couple picks we took in the past were busts and otherwise the DL has been highly neglected. With the transition to this new 4-3 defense, it could not afford to again be neglected.. So picks across the DL were no brainers in my book.
 
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There are strong, but of course unable to confirm, rumors that KC and probably Baltimore were very interested in Taylor. Glad the Ratbirds didn't get him - could you imagine trying to run up the middle against Ngata, Taylor, Lewis?!
 
Jax Dawg said:
rumors that KC and probably Baltimore were very interested in Taylor
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Phily as well.

Here is a video lifted from another board of P Talylor vs OklaSt:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meAiMwXMCCs&feature=related]YouTube - Phil Taylor vs. Oklahoma State (2010)[/ame]

It's a mixed bag vs the run. Sometimes he is in postion, sometimes he is pushed around. Now considering the score he could have been on the field a ton of plays. I see on pass plays he get great push back and almost lands some sacks. Down on the GL he gets collapsed by the o-lineman (G or T?) and then some plays he makes the tackle. All in all I don't see a high motor or a guy that is tough to move every play, but he is a big man playing a lot of snaps. We'll see how this motor runs on game day.

I did read something about a tweet from him: "can't wait to get big money" or something like that. Cleveland fans don't like that kind of stuff.
 
Brown Warrior said:
Well... okay. Then you stand alone.
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Two words: Jimmy Clausen. Not many wanted him here - you stood alone. You most likely will stand alone on that pick for quite some time. I watched every single ND game with passion. I am a big ND fan. I tried to tell you he wasn't first round material. I tried to tell you he had better players than Quinn. I tried to tell you he played weaker opponents.

But the 400 mocks you read told you different.
 
Solon16 said:
Dude NEVER EVER did I say I didn't like Phil Taylor...I am the only person on this board that touted Phil Taylor pre-draft. I am the one who said I'd love Phil Taylor next to Rubin...and I had Alo and shep say he's a NT...I said he played in a 4-3 and was athletic enough to play 3 technique...JESUS....! Whoosh I'd NEVER give up a HIGH 3rd rounder to move up 6 spots unless I was moving from 16 to 10...No fucking credit on this board at all.
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In Fact here you go... dated 3/26/11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solon16
love love love to land phil taylor...he might sneak into the first

Y-town; Isn't he a 3-4 NT simular to Rubin. I thought he was more of a two gap guy team were looking 3-4 were looking at for NT. I saw somewhere in a mock that he was projected to go to NE at the end of round one.

Solon16; Coveted as a 3-4 NT...But can play both NT and DT! BIG BIG BOY...And athletic for size.

Shep; Not quick enough to play the under tackle next to Rubin. Liuget would be great if he fell. I like that South Florida kid in three, or Casey. I'd take the RDE over the under tackle myself.

Solon16; Then you haven't seen Taylor play play! He wont make it to the second. he's very quick for a big man...he's "shaun rogers motivated" quick. If we trade back I'd love to get him. Just like my preference for bookend Tackles on O ...I have a preference for "closed Book end DT's"as well...in a 4-3

5 weeks ago!
 
Solon16 said:
Solon16; Then you haven't seen Taylor play play! He wont make it to the second. he's very quick for a big man...he's "shaun rogers motivated" quick. If we trade back I'd love to get him. Just like my preference for bookend Tackles on O ...I have a preference for "closed Book end DT's"as well...in a 4-3
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Mad props for that one, dude. There is no question you have some chops doing this stuff. I don't have the time. LOL.

Seriously, that is good stuff.
 
Vegasdogg said:
Two words: Jimmy Clausen. Not many wanted him here - you stood alone. You most likely will stand alone on that pick for quite some time. I watched every single ND game with passion. I am a big ND fan. I tried to tell you he wasn't first round material. I tried to tell you he had better players than Quinn. I tried to tell you he played weaker opponents.

But the 400 mocks you read told you different.
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You're misunderstanding me and trying to make an argument out of air. I'm not saying it was a bad pick. I'm not qualified to talk about DTs much or how Jauron wants to staff up his team.

I'm saying it was unexpected. Nobody from Kiper to McShay to Mayock to Banks to whoever the hell else had him going anywhere but 3-4 teams. That's all I'm saying.

Not everything is an argument, Veg. You drew too fast and fired that Clausen bullet again.
 
That's right: Props to Solon.

I would say all of the draftnick universe was looking at 3-tech for the Browns, someone to go next to Rubin. The vast majority of us figured that made sense.

But the points about his massive Chicago DTs and the Vikings Williams Wall or whatever it's called are interesting.

Again, Veg... that's all I'm saying. Put those things back in their holsters, big fella.
 
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