NFL Draft - Who do the Browns want for a Receiver from the 2022 draft. | Page 4 |

NFL Draft Who do the Browns want for a Receiver from the 2022 draft.

The Haymaker said:
why do you think KS is running his OFF this way?
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It's how he runs his offense. Diggs wanted out because Stefanski was gearing the offense in a more run-heavy direction. We've limited Mayfield since day one. It's the worst aspect of Stefanski - he prioritises the passing attack way less than everyone else.

If you're suggesting he's running the offense this way because he's not thrilled with Mayfield, then he's only hurting himself. Putting the most important player on the offense in a bad situation because Kevin doesn't trust him is an insurmountable flaw in coaching.

He needs to open it up, and we need to add personnel who put him in a more comfortable position to do so.
 
open it up? last game he played in he threw 38 times. Is that open enough?
everyone knows baker needs perfection around him because he is not very good. Its been 4 years.Its no secret.
12th best QB in the league is about his best year in 2020. a little above average.this OFF is centred around baker.100%.
you blame KS for having a running team?
 
The Haymaker said:
open it up? last game he played in he threw 38 times. Is that open enough?
everyone knows baker needs perfection around him because he is not very good. Its been 4 years.Its no secret.
12th best QB in the league is about his best year in 2020. a little above average.this OFF is centred around baker.100%.
you blame KS for having a running team?
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Passing attempts does not equate to opening up the offense. It's about scheme and concepts which are designed to get the ball in the hands of the receivers.

Even if it did mean opening it up, we had the 5th fewest passing attempts in the NFL and were 9th most in rushing attempts - which is a little misleading because five of the teams with more rushing attempts had mobile quarterbacks who like to run and almost all of them were winning teams which benefit from running the clock down.

So, one of the least balanced offenses in the NFL. And when we do pass, most of the time we're targeting a running back, right end or fullback because they dominate the personnel packages.

I get you're not a Mayfield fan but he's got a cannon of an arm and in college was a prolific downfield threats throwing to elite receivers. If that's not enough to at least try fitting in with the modern game, then we'd be wise to move on to someone who will. This isn't 1956 and Kevin has to learn that.
 
BDU said:
I get you're not a Mayfield fan
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Its not personal. Im a browns fan. an I do agree with the gist of what youre saying.
2 out of 5 of top running teams made the playoffs (PITT by the skin of Its teeth)
4 out of 5 of top passing teams made the playoffs (the chargers barely missed)
the colts have a similar problem and style to us. Its just not baker.we also have a great RB room and OFF line.so we run the ball.
blaming it on KS OFF philosophy? no, hes playing the hand hes been dealt making the most of the talent he has.
he won COTY for his ability at doing that.If he had peyton or rodgers do you think we run 25+ times?
FK ran the "air raid" OFF. shotgun,empty sets classic passing OFF.It didnt work. baker is not a pocket QB and never will be.
 
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The Haymaker said:
Its not personal. Im a browns fan. an I do agree with the gist of what youre saying.
2 out of 5 of top running teams made the playoffs (PITT by the skin of Its teeth)
4 out of 5 of top passing teams made the playoffs (the chargers barely missed)
the colts have a similar problem and style to us. Its just not baker.we also have a great RB room and OFF line.so we run the ball.
blaming it on KS OFF philosophy? no, hes playing the hand hes been dealt making the most of the talent he has.
he won COTY for his ability at doing that.If he had peyton or rodgers do you think we run 25+ times?
FK ran the "air raid" OFF. shotgun,empty sets classic passing OFF.It didnt work. baker is not a pocket QB and never will be.
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I'm not the only one blaming Stefanski's philosophy - he himself acknowledged he needs to make changes and adapt. He specifically mentioned a process of looking around the NFL and college to find what we could incorporate. That direction should take him away from his current offense, which has become antiquated in the modern NFL.

It's wonderful to have a great OL and RB room. Nobody is saying don't run the ball, or even that we need to forgo our rush scheme. We do need to dial it back on being so aggressive in marching out packages most teams save for inside the five on red zone opportunities. We also need to cut out the misdirection nonsense which frequently has us passing from sets with running backs and tight ends wider than the receivers. It's not clever, it isn't fooling anyone and it isn't even creating the mismatches he thinks it will.

Yes, Mayfield was injured this year. But even last year we predominantly played out of run-first concepts.

Example:

247sports.com

OBR Analytics: 2020 Browns Offensive Personnel Grouping Review

Looking back at the Browns' success based on personnel groupings in the 2020 season.
247sports.com 247sports.com

In looking at the data, you can clearly see that this grouping is the league-wide favorite, as teams used “11” on around 60 percent of offensive plays in 2020 (the Cincinnati Bengals led the way at 76 percent). 26 of the league’s 32 teams favor “11” over any other grouping. One of those six exceptions is the Cleveland Browns, who used the grouping on just 41 percent of offensive plays, which ranked 30th. The Browns did however find success out of “11” personnel in both the passing and running game while using a 60/40 pass-to-run ratio.

In the passing game, quarterback Baker Mayfield ranked in the top-10 across a wide variety of metrics. In fact, he finished 1st in on-target percentage (83.0 percent) and 2nd in points earned per play (0.281), as well as 7th in both adjusted net yards per pass attempt (7.4) and passer rating (103.5). He also pushed the ball downfield out of the grouping, finishing 9th in average throw depth (8.7 yards).

Article TL;DR - We've got a top 10 QB when running a more modern NFL personnel package, and we're pretty good running from it, but we used it just 41 per cent of the time - around 20 percent less than the rest of the league. We were 2nd in the league in using 12 personnel and 1st in the league in using Jumbo - which we're excellent running from but not as good passing from because it's not a great package to pass from.

That article is far more positive about it than I am, probably because the Browns had a great year, but it highlights that we're actively hurting our QB with sets he doesn't perform as well from just because we run really well from those sets - despite the fact we still run really well from the sets Mayfield does perform better from.

Yes, Kevin won coach of the year. He's a damn good coach and he deserved it. But he needs to evolve and catch up with the rest of the league because we're getting left behind while he tries to run an offense which literally no other team is running - for a reason.

Side note - Kitchens sucked. His vertical offense relied on long-developing concepts our OL couldn't sustain and our players didn't fit. There's a reason he went from HC to tight end coach. Pinning that failure on Mayfield makes no sense.
 
so 2019 was FK fault. 2021 was KS fault. how many coaches do we have to go through?
blaming bad QB play on packages or formations is BS bro. rodgers cant make it work? brady would have similar stats? come on man
baker can come back from this.It wont be easy, the schedule is going to look great for us.baker has not played well in 2021.
no amount of stats or contortion can change that but If he can bounce back to 2020 form? we can still make the tournament.
after 4 years the opinion "bakers being held back by bad coaching and playcalling" Im sorry. no bueno.no dice.incorrect.
he threw all those picks because he was in jumbo? It doesnt hold water my friend.
 
The Haymaker said:
so 2019 was FK fault. 2021 was KS fault. how many coaches do we have to go through?
blaming bad QB play on packages or formations is BS bro. rodgers cant make it work? brady would have similar stats? come on man
baker can come back from this.It wont be easy, the schedule is going to look great for us.baker has not played well in 2021.
no amount of stats or contortion can change that but If he can bounce back to 2020 form? we can still make the tournament.
after 4 years the opinion "bakers being held back by bad coaching and playcalling" Im sorry. no bueno.no dice.incorrect.
he threw all those picks because he was in jumbo? It doesnt hold water my friend.
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I'm not blaming everything on one person or one aspect of the game in any season.

With all due respect, that's you. You're blaming Mayfield entirely and don't want to hear anything else. This week you've disagreed with me on the role the scheme played, the role our injuries played (Both to Mayfield and the overall roster), the role Odell played, the role the overall talent of the roster in general played, etc. Not just in 2021, but now also 2019. It's just all Baker in your eyes. The only time we've agreed this week is when I'm looking at quarterbacks due to Mayfield's role in the struggles.

I'm looking at EVERYTHING, and I'm not going to pretend Baker is the only problem because he's not. The numbers don't lie, the tape doesn't lie. Baker is not the sole to blame for our struggles and we will continue struggling if we don't address multiple issues this offseason.
 
BDU said:
the role our injuries played (Both to Mayfield and the overall roster)
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where? I never did and If so It must have been a mistake by one of us because that is funny.of course injuries were a factor
I have said I believe baker can and will take us to the PO's this year too.why would I say that If I didnt think he was hurt this year?
I mean Im in another thread arguing his injuries are so bad its going to take 6-9 months for him to fully recover after TJ planted him.
I agree with you.yeah, I think and Its only my opinion bakers play this year lost us the 2-3 games we needed to make the PO.
that is what I think. other factors sure but the lions share must be bakers. our schedule being another major factor.as Ive said before.
we dont agree but hey,Its good to have a baker guy here.Im a moderate! most posters want him executed immediately.
so good to have different views on this.
 
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BDU said:
I get you're not a Mayfield fan but he's got a cannon of an arm and in college was a prolific downfield threats throwing to elite receivers. If that's not enough to at least try fitting in with the modern game, then we'd be wise to move on to someone who will. This isn't 1956 and Kevin has to learn that.
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Agreed with most of your post, however we have tried to give Baker an elite downfield receiver. Those elite WRs you mention he had in college ....the major caveat is they were going up again future insurance salesmen 85% of the time. I remember distinctly watching film of Baker and begging us not to draft him because all he would do sf chuck the ball 40 yards down the field and one of his insane WRs would make great catch after great catch. Dude was never pinpoint accurate. He got the ball within the sphere of his WRs and they made him look good. He can't get away with that shit in the NFL. This high, hard, and/or behind shit has become the norm for him. It's gotten his receivers killed, and frustrated some right off the team. I think Jarvis is great, and do believe he has more all pro years in him. Any WR that comes to this team is going to be handcuffed by both the coach and the QB, and that's a sad fact. Everyone is jumping on our WRs now as though they suck, yet last year it was OBJ who was the problem and our sucky WRs were really good in his absence. IMO QBs make the WRs. A great QB can turn average WRs into all pros. Yes there is the rare specimen at WR who is the top of the top, Chase, Fitzgerald, Johnson etc. Even those guys without a franchise QB how good would they be. Not as good at least.
 
BDU said:
I'm looking at EVERYTHING
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and trying to find ANYONE but baker to blame for this disaster.
we had 5 drives this year where baker could have won the game (some via FG) we failed 5 times BDU. didnt get close. the D we faced didnt even have to tighten up into their RZ packages.we couldnt get 1st downs to even get close.he threw picks on some of those too.
yes he was hurt but what are we doin here? does that exonerate him from any responsibility? Isnt "accountable" a team motto?
If we were the pats? GB or even the eagles? we would be drafting a QB or rarer still replacing bake through FA.
but these are functional well run organisations. no one agrees drafting would be a smart move? really? come on! I cant see how we have a choice TBH. you know how many great looking 1st rd QB's fail? ask..hell ask us! so the draft being "weak at QB" really is a crock.
bakers draft was known as a great QB draft right? well,so far only one of those guys has worked out.
laurence was supposed to be the 2nd coming of peyton but looks terrible.what do they have in comin? height.both over 6'5"

I think it comes down more to how those QB's have been treated. all 4 of the '18 class were made starters far too soon.here,save the city.
what If GB12 was made to start in his 1st season? he might be out of the league by now.history has shown us the longer you groom your rook QB the better he becomes (with years to learn the OFF they have much less to worry about on the field.) they can just play ball.
willis could sit for 2 years (all going well) and just play in certain packages. the GOAT TB12? sat for a year too. "Is that rain?"

minshew,fitzmagic or mariota are interesting.personally I would take one in a heart beat but I just think the controversy would be too
much for baker sensitivities and Its not really building for the future.I would prefer mr right.not mr right now.Its also much cheaper.
you just tell our rookie QB even before we draft him hes going to sit.you tell the media.everyone knows the kids not competing in camp.
=no QB controversy.nothing to see here just a well run franchise looking far into the future.next question.
"theres a storm coming! Im tellin yee" - shutup noah! old fool.
 
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TheBestPlayersPlay said:
Agreed with most of your post, however we have tried to give Baker an elite downfield receiver.
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I don't disagree with your post, but I question if we really did get him an elite receiver.

I just never felt like I was watching the Odell I had hoped we were getting. He was always injured, he dropped a tonne of passes, was often criticized for sloppy routes if not freelancing, and he And the fact is we couldn't even trade him. Nobody wanted him because he was being paid like a #1 receiver. He got just a 1 year, $3M deal as a free agent to go be a team's #2 receiver and he was ultimately their #3 in the end.

What's Odell getting in free agency? In PFF's list of top free agents, he narrowly beats out JuJu to earn the #36 spot, lower than Antonio Brown, with a projected one year, $14M deal - and they acknowledge his big contracts days are gone but someone will be chasing the ghost of who he once was.

It seems like the rest of the league will probably agree with the Browns - he's not that guy, and arguably hasn't been since Eli Manning was still playing.

But, with that said, an investment in receiver is also a plus for the future because Baker might not work out and we need a boost at the point. Be it for Mayfield, or Mayfield's replacement.

On a brighter note, there are a lot of options;

 
Its OBJ's fault. hes a bad WR. look at his stats.hes terrible! :ROFLMAO::LOL::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
If we had julio jones? we'd be in the PO's!
a 1st rd rookie will come in and be better than OBJ.right?:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::LOL::ROFLMAO:
BDU said:
an investment in receiver is also a plus for the future because Baker might not work out and we need a boost at the point. Be it for Mayfield, or Mayfield's replacement.
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that is true. Im hoping we can get some in FA.
 
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We're going to need a reasonable commitment to the passing game out of KS too. It's going to take all aspects of the passing game being looked at critically including the philosophy and the coaches working on making it functional. I said it before that we can add some WC style pass concepts or RO concepts. Work on silent snap counts, no huddle up tempo type of concepts with 11 and 12 or even 21 personnel. Use the pre-season to get the starters more in game work, since we pretty much know who will be starting and which guys are not going to be cut. Don't be afraid to play guys in pre-season to work things out. Be ready and in shape from game one on.

Make Baker understand to take the checkdown to Chubb when a defense has things covered. Not just Hunt, but Chubb can catch a few too. Working with Chubb on running routes as well as Schwartz and whatever rookies/FA's we add.
 
I saw Mahomes do the inside flip to the TE similar to our play that we ran, but ended up in a dropped ball when we did it. I also saw the TE down the sideline like we've done too. A lot of these plays are copy cat league wide type of stuff. Screens, jet sweeps, off tackle runs that when executed correctly and used just a few times a game are effective. If they are done over and over in a game it becomes easier for defenses to defend them.

It's not all KS or all BM or all the WR's or whoever. The problem seems to be in different areas at different times.
 
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