Investigating the Investigators or taking down the Deep State

[Danamal]

Cliff,MMW, this is why I no longer want to talk politics
on here any longer.
Both of you have tried to belittle me and feel this incessant
need to prove how right you are rather than taking in another
posters thoughts and feelings on current events.
Greythan was making his feelings known and you just cut him up
and told him how wrong he is.
MMW,know you haven’t publicly called me an asshole or anything
but both of you have toyed with me because you think your funny.
Maybe you are maybe your not even aware of it or you just don’t
care?
Obama in a two year long campaign gaffes fifty seven states rather
than visits and he is a moron and yet Trump does it so often nobody
bothers to care anymore.
Try being a little more centered or enjoy your loneliness together.
Cya up on the Browns page.

 

[madmadworld]

Dan

It's called debating.

Thanks for being there................ for Obama again LOL :banana::banana::yo:

 

[Brownsfan]

Cliff,MMW, this is why I no longer want to talk politics
on here any longer.
Both of you have tried to belittle me and feel this incessant
need to prove how right you are rather than taking in another
posters thoughts and feelings on current events.
Greythan was making his feelings known and you just cut him up
and told him how wrong he is.
MMW,know you haven’t publicly called me an asshole or anything
but both of you have toyed with me because you think your funny.
Maybe you are maybe your not even aware of it or you just don’t
care?
Obama in a two year long campaign gaffes fifty seven states rather
than visits and he is a moron and yet Trump does it so often nobody
bothers to care anymore.
Try being a little more centered or enjoy your loneliness together.
Cya up on the Browns page.

Dan, in case you choose to read this, I will say that I never intentionally belittled you, but I freely admit that I often attempt to prove I am right. And if I disagree with something I read, I tend to express my disagreement and attempt to explain why. In addition, while I have no hesitancy in expressing my disagreement and explaining why, I often ask for explanations from others with the attitude is that if they can show me why I am wrong, I may then be forced to adjust my opinion. I think I may have expressed that sentiment to you.

I think we may have gotten off on the wrong foot because in the beginning, I tried to understand your position and your reasons for feeling the way you do. Apparently I asked some questions that led you to believe that you were convincing me that you were right in regard to the President--or perhaps it was when I acknowledged that I could not dispute much of what you were saying.

When it finally occurred to me that my questions and attempts to understand had given you the impression that you had converted me, I had to make it clear that that was not the case. However, I found it to be difficult because, first, you apparently didn't want to hear it and, second, the disagreement was despite my inability to dispute at least some of what you were saying. The result was that I had to get rather forceful in my disagreement and the reasons for the disagreement before you finally understood that I was not going to be your disciple.

Look, Dan, in all honesty, I cannot and will not dispute that Trump is a bit rough around the edges. I don't much care for some of the things he says and the way he says them. But I support him because I like his policies. I think he has done some really good things for the country. I have already explained this in detail and there is no reason to go through all that again. Regardless, I am sorry if you took offense at my disagreement and feel that my rejection of your point of view in favor of mine represents a betrayal. To me, it was never a betrayal, it was simply a disagreement.

I will admit that I was annoyed with you for calling me a liar. I can assure you that that did not help our relationship. Still, I am troubled by the accusation that I belittled you. I fail to recall anything I said that would have left that impression. I have always thought of you as a worthy opponent. If you feel that I have belittled you, please accept my apology.

 

[madmadworld]

Flynn-Kislyak call transcripts

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/re...ipts-of-conversations-during-trump-transition

If you want to read some totally boring conversation there it is.
the 2 men are organizing a meeting on the Middle east. with a side bar about how not to escalate the differences between the 2 countries. over expelling of each others citizens. both not wanting it get out of hand.

I've seen more controversial stuff on a bathroom wall.

No wonder AG Barr tossed this out.

Edit
here is a story on the sanctions/actions taken Dec 29 2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/politics/russia-election-hacking-sanctions.html

 

[nickers]

Dan, in case you choose to read this, I will say that I never intentionally belittled you, but I freely admit that I often attempt to prove I am right. And if I disagree with something I read, I tend to express my disagreement and attempt to explain why. In addition, while I have no hesitancy in expressing my disagreement and explaining why, I often ask for explanations from others with the attitude is that if they can show me why I am wrong, I may then be forced to adjust my opinion. I think I may have expressed that sentiment to you.

I think we may have gotten off on the wrong foot because in the beginning, I tried to understand your position and your reasons for feeling the way you do. Apparently I asked some questions that led you to believe that you were convincing me that you were right in regard to the President--or perhaps it was when I acknowledged that I could not dispute much of what you were saying.

When it finally occurred to me that my questions and attempts to understand had given you the impression that you had converted me, I had to make it clear that that was not the case. However, I found it to be difficult because, first, you apparently didn't want to hear it and, second, the disagreement was despite my inability to dispute at least some of what you were saying. The result was that I had to get rather forceful in my disagreement and the reasons for the disagreement before you finally understood that I was not going to be your disciple.

Look, Dan, in all honesty, I cannot and will not dispute that Trump is a bit rough around the edges. I don't much care for some of the things he says and the way he says them. But I support him because I like his policies. I think he has done some really good things for the country. I have already explained this in detail and there is no reason to go through all that again. Regardless, I am sorry if you took offense at my disagreement and feel that my rejection of your point of view in favor of mine represents a betrayal. To me, it was never a betrayal, it was simply a disagreement.

I will admit that I was annoyed with you for calling me a liar. I can assure you that that did not help our relationship. Still, I am troubled by the accusation that I belittled you. I fail to recall anything I said that would have left that impression. I have always thought of you as a worthy opponent. If you feel that I have belittled you, please accept my apology.

Cliff.. I agree with you on Trump... Yeah , He's rough around the edges because he is NOT a lifelong Politician or polished in that sense.. Like you.. I agree with most of his policies and I truly believe he loves this country.. He didn't or 'does not' need the money.. I truly believe he wanted to do this to help America because he realizes you have to run America like you would run any business because it has to be run like a business.. It's just the way things are.

All the back lash and badgering this guy takes is incredible and he wants this pressure for another 4 years.. They called Reagan the teflon President.. I say bullshit.. That title belongs to Trump.,, Trump is the only real hope of saving this country from the socialist movement bent on deystroying America and its values.. I just started reading a book called Mexifornia on Amazon.. It was written a time ago.. But the things we see happening now in our world was forcast in this book.. The detail is amazing..

God Bless, Cliff...

 

[Greythan]

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/05/6544...rops-to-3-7-percent-lowest-in-nearly-50-years
Not Fox news

Right. You've remade my point. The employment trend has (had?) been part of the biggest economic expansion in the past 50 years starting at the end of the financial crisis in '08. The trendline has been on virtually the same downward slope since then. Why does that make Trump the best president in the past 60 years?

You're not making a case here. You're simply making statements. That's fine, but you'll pardon me if I find your position on Trump to be hyperbolic.

As for your comments on Biden, there are at least as many criticisms of Trump that can be cited. I've gone through plenty of them.

 

[Greythan]

Sounds reasonable, all things being equal. But it isn’t equal.

You are equating service jobs with manufacturing jobs, and they are not equal. Understand, of course that Obama did not purposefully expand the service industry at the expense of the manufacturing industry, but he made no effort to prevent it. Instead, he famously remarked that the manufacturing jobs were not coming back, and they weren’t—until Trump.

The difference is that Donald Trump has understood the importance of the manufacturing sector and since becoming President has made a concerted effort to bring manufacturing jobs back to America. Much of the 20th century in America was dominated by the manufacturing sector. However, beginning in the mid-1980s, service industry jobs such as medical, educational, food services and hospitality pulled even with manufacturing jobs by category in the United States, and by the year 2000, the service industry employed about twice as many workers as the manufacturing industry.

By definition, manufacturing industry jobs are involved with making thing while service industry jobs are involved with working with things. So why is this important? Manufacturing produces a product. In that sense, the agricultural industry that dominated in the 19th century is essentially manufacturing in that it produces a product. But the service industry is different. The service industry produces a…service. In short, apart from agriculture which had expanded and shrunk in important ways during that time period, when we lost the major portion of our manufacturing base, we became a nation of servants. Sure, servants have jobs, but is that your ideal? Do you care?

So when Trump went to Detroit and told those executives what he had in mind, they weren’t happy, but it was the reason he became President. Enough of the people in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania heard the message to make the difference. The funny part for me is that I didn’t even know what he had done until after the election. Had I known, I would have held my nose and voted for him. I certainly plan to do it this fall.

Several interesting points to discuss here.

First, the data I've seen doesn't show a material increase in manufacturing jobs. Here's the latest from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Its the same general trendline and in total you can see that we've added, what, a half million manufacturing jobs while Trump's been in office with most of those gains coming earlier? 2019, for example, was flat.

Second, and I think more interesting is this notion that manufacturing jobs are the future. I find this a very short sighted perspective, at least the way Trump tends to pander to his base on the topic. Like it or not we are heading into an automation world with robotics and other advanced technologies. We have to begin at least thinking about what a post manual labor driven job market looks like.

Sure, this second point isn't an immediate issue but 20 years from now the world is going to look a lot differently. 40-50 years from now? Who knows. Point being? Our kids/grandkids will need to figure these issues out and Trump's MASSIVE increasing of the federal deficit is a bill they'll have to pay. Again, that's another question/issue.

 

[madmadworld]

Off the cliff

Right. You've remade my point. The employment trend has (had?) been part of the biggest economic expansion in the past 50 years starting at the end of the financial crisis in '08. The trendline has been on virtually the same downward slope since then. Why does that make Trump the best president in the past 60 years?

You're not making a case here. You're simply making statements. That's fine, but you'll pardon me if I find your position on Trump to be hyperbolic.

As for your comments on Biden, there are at least as many criticisms of Trump that can be cited. I've gone through plenty of them.

You are not making a point. no POTUS had these numbers in 50 years period. they all had 4-8 years to try, all failed. end of story. Cliff went on about this in detail.

Obama had it rough on one side of it. but things were likely to get better after the bottom fell out. How bad was it ? the truck was going off the cliff so they handed the keys to a black guy. fact is Obama knew nothing about making money and business. no more than Trump knows about epidemiology.

From economic history/followers when Trump came in said we were due for a downturn. Surely you can recall that. I'm not going go deep into this,QE, yield curve control, etc. you are the rare one, I run into bunch of Trump haters online all of them give him this lane. so there's that.

 

[madmadworld]

The Trump economy, three years in: What the numbers say

Its the same general trendline and in total you can see that we've added, what, a half million manufacturing jobs while Trump's been in office with most of those gains coming earlier? 2019, for example, was flat.

Second, and I think more interesting is this notion that manufacturing jobs are the future. I find this a very short sighted perspective, at least the way Trump tends to pander to his base on the topic. Like it or not we are heading into an automation world with robotics and other advanced technologies. We have to begin at least thinking about what a post manual labor driven job market looks like.

Sure, this second point isn't an immediate issue but 20 years from now the world is going to look a lot differently. 40-50 years from now? Who knows. Point being? Our kids/grandkids will need to figure these issues out and Trump's MASSIVE increasing of the federal deficit is a bill they'll have to pay. Again, that's another question/issue.

This week, Donald Trump has been president for three years. So with a three-year track record, how is the "Trump economy" doing?

Did Trump dramatically change economic trends, or did he merely continue existing trends from the Obama administration?

FOX Business ran the numbers, comparing basic economic performance measures for the same number of days before and after Trump's election.

Here's how trends have changed:

Stock market

The graph shows that the stock market grew 31 percent in the 807 trading days before Trump's election, but it grew by 56 percent in the 807 trading days after it, up through the third anniversary of Trump's inauguration.

In the graph above, the blue line shows the trend prior to Trump's election, and the red lines since then.

More than half of Americans invest in the stock market, either directly or through 401(k)s and other retirement funds

Some economists say the gains show tax cuts and freer markets are working.

"The administration policies on tax cuts and deregulation have been good for both Wall Street and Main Street," economist David Henderson, who served on President Ronald Reagan's Council of Economic Advisers, told FOX Business. He said the big improvement came even despite an expensive trade war.

The outcome is also a far cry what some had predicted. After Trump's election, Nobel-prize-winning economist Paul Krugman predicted: "We are very probably looking at a global recession, with no end in sight."

But a former Obama economic advisor says there are less rosy trends outside the stock market.

"It has really been a tale of two economies lately. Consumer related things have been strong. But anything relating to business investment or manufacturing or trade has been quite tough," economist Austan Goolsbee, who advised President Obama's campaign and chaired Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, told FOX Business. "Manufacturing has literally been in recession. Part of that has come from the damage from the tariffs. Another part has been that the tax cuts did not seem to generate anything close to the kind of sustained improvement that was promised."

Manufacturing

Manufacturing fell 1.2 percent during two quarters in the middle of 2019, before recovering partly in the latest reported quarter. Goolsbee said that qualifies as a recession over the last six months.

But overall, manufacturing has risen under the Trump administration, and it has done so faster than before he was president.

Manufacturing rose 3.6 percent during Trump's three years, which was more than double the rise of 1.7 percent in the three years under Obama before that, according to government data.

Manufacturing employment also rose under Trump, with 487,000 manufacturing jobs created.

In contrast, in the three years prior to Trump's term, manufacturing employment rose by 287,000 jobs.

Asked about the difference, Goolsbee pointed to the Purchasing Managers' Index – a survey of senior executives at manufacturing companies that asks about their new orders and inventory levels. The index is currently low, hinting that the near future of manufacturing might be bleak.

Unemployment

Unemployment fell under Trump, but it was already falling at a rapid pace before he came to office:

Economists say that the continued decline is particularly impressive since the rate is nearing record lows. The current rate is lowest it has been in the last 50 years.

"We are approaching ... record low unemployment rates and once one gets so close to zero, it cannot continue to fall at the rates that it [used to]," Ed Stringham, President of the American Institute for Economic Research, told FOX Business.

Former Trump advisors also note that after Trump came to office, government estimates had to be dramatically revised in a positive direction to match the new reality.

"Before Mr. Trump took office in January 2017, the Congressional Budget Office forecast the creation of only two million jobs by this point. The economy has in fact created seven million jobs,

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-economy-three-years-numbers-110011233.html
Real Right Wing this Yahoo thing

 

[Brownsfan]

First, the data I've seen doesn't show a material increase in manufacturing jobs. Here's the latest from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

I am not going to try to make an argument that in the past 3 years, there has been a dramatic change from service to manufacturing jobs in the USA due to Trump's policies. Indeed, I will stipulate that a good portion of the new jobs that Trump has touted has been service jobs. Reversing a 60 year trend is not easy. Investments in plants in Mexico and other countries that have been made over the years (mainly due to favorable tax policies and labor costs in the host countries) are not easily written off.

The new trade agreement with Mexico and Canada is a step in the right direction, but it will take time for the shift in direction to take place. Inertia is a force of nature and applies to business as it does in physics. Business decisions made 5 years ago will have consequences for the next 20 year. Even with new tax policies and other incentives to stay home, it will take a while before the results show up in a big way. Inertia is working against a sudden shift.

However, the process has started. New steel plants, for example, are being built in the USA for the first time in a generation. We almost lost our ability to produce our own steel before Trump insisted that we should not lose it.

The turnaround will take time and I would argue that Trump needs another term in office to complete as much of the turnaround as possible before subsequent attempts to reverse the progress are made. We could easily lose the opportunity to expand manufacturing (and good manufacturing jobs) if we elect a party in November that advocates additional taxes and restrictive regulations that limit expansion of business (and jobs) in this country. We know it will happen eventually, but we need to put that off as long as possible.

 

[Danamal]

I don’t ever remember trying to convince either of you
of anything.
Your defense of what has happened since the inauguration
has no merit, just because he was able to suppress the
multiple charges against him doesn’t make him innocent.
Putting yes men in every available position that control
checks and balances is something we as a society are
going to have to work on, this kind of presidency isn’t
what the framers intended and put safety measures in
place to prevent the tyranny we fought against when we
first drafted the living and breathing documents this country
put in place.
Fox News is no better than msnbc and I have acknowledged
that, but calling cnn the Clinton news network is just ignorant
as is not taking in all points of view before putting forth an
argument, hell I watch Fox be cause I want to know all sides.
the post the times are not the enemy and refusing to consider
the free press is pure ignorance and the Fox network panders
to opposing views and alternative facts but I still listen and watch
as I used to do with the radio in my truck starting with Beck,into
Limbaugh and Hannity.Its called being informed and making a
consensus from all sides.
This partisan approach to politics serves no one but corporations.
In your view corporations shouldn’t have to pay taxes because
they hire employees who pay taxes.
In reality most of these companies aren’t even incorporated in
this country, We sold out industry in the late seventies throughout
the eighties.
This country is now more of a service industry than it is an industrial
powerhouse.The middle class has been carrying our tax burden on its
back for far to long.The phone I’m typing on was built in China,as are
my sneakers appliances, televisions and my bedroom furniture was built
in Viet Nam!
You can’t “drain the swamp” when your making money from a hotel across
the street from the White House.
Car manufacturers build in Canada,Mexico,Europe more so than our own
country and don’t have to pay taxes.
The system is rigged that the middle class gets squeezed for taxes because
poor people can’t pay taxes and the rich refuse to.
If you have watched any television during this stay at home time you’ll notice
Big Pharma and Insurance companies have commercials on every channel that
has commercials.
Somewhere we lost our country and
Trump has been everything he ran against in 16.
He is corrupt, arrogant,uncaring or feeling for
anyone other than himself and it’s no secret that
he is profiting from his position.
I give credit where it’s due,I’m not tied to any party
it’s more about the person running and what they
propose to do for the country, however we live in
very partisan times and it’s unbecoming of a supposed
super power which leads by example and spends more
money on defense than any other country on the planet.

 

[Brownsfan]

I don’t ever remember trying to convince either of you
of anything.

You haven't tried to convince us that Trump is a Jerk?

You could have fooled me.

 

[madmadworld]

Taxes

Most of your post is right. the CNN part not so much. lol
they have no view I haven't heard before. they are like beets I've tried them a few times, no need to try them again.

In your view corporations shouldn’t have to pay taxes because
they hire employees who pay taxes.

Not really corporations are never going to REALLY going to pay taxes. they are just going to pass it on to consumers of their products.

The middle class has been carrying our tax burden on its
back for far to long.

Nearly half the people pay no income tax.

It's the top 10% that should be bitching.... but no one wants to hear them LMAO

 

[Danamal]

I shouldn’t have to “convince” anyone that Trumps a sociopath.
These truths are self evident.
Cliff,Mad Man, I like you both I’m just tired of the circle.
Hopefully we find some common ground on the Browns
Page!
MMW, you and I can do a slap contest anytime, I thought
you would like that.... sport?

 

[madmadworld]

no no no

MMW, you and I can do a slap contest anytime

Take the win Dan
I'll keep my hands & face as they are :yo:ldtimer:

 

[Greythan]

MMW, all I've been responding to is this statement you made:

For me Trump is the best POTUS we have had in 60 years. he's done more to create jobs the any of them. that's the most important item any of them could ever do.

Again, there isn't any evidence to support your assertion regarding his track record of job creation. Its just not factually correct. Doesn't mean you aren't entitled to believe Trump's the best president in the past 60 years. On the other hand, you aren't entitled to your own set of alternative facts (i.e., falsehoods). You haven't provided anything to counter the actual employment data I've provided in this thread.

No huge deal; just wanted to make my position clear.

Cliff, I hear you on what I presume is your preferred economic policy regime. For me, I haven't seen any compelling evidence that makes it clear which regime actually works better. I'm not so sure it truly matters considering we've thrived under both and stalled under both. Thus, for me, considering Trump's incredible shortcomings in living up to the dignity of our highest elected office, I'm quite comfortable jettisoning him.

The republicans can find a superior candidate and retake the white house in 2024.

 

[madmadworld]

The Fact Checker

Again, there isn't any evidence to support your assertion regarding his track record of job creation. Its just not factually correct. Doesn't mean you aren't entitled to believe Trump's the best president in the past 60 years. On the other hand, you aren't entitled to your own set of alternative facts (i.e., falsehoods). You haven't provided anything to counter the actual employment data I've provided in this thread.

No huge deal; just wanted to make my position clear.

You showed nothing. even your chart showed a up tick. I've showed you fact after Fact and not in my own words(unlike you).
dude I'm all about facts. you just don't have any in this debate .. Take the L like a man.

 

[Brownsfan]

Cliff, I hear you on what I presume is your preferred economic policy regime. For me, I haven't seen any compelling evidence that makes it clear which regime actually works better. I'm not so sure it truly matters considering we've thrived under both and stalled under both. Thus, for me, considering Trump's incredible shortcomings in living up to the dignity of our highest elected office, I'm quite comfortable jettisoning him.

I have a different perspective of the opposition. It isn't just the economy and "made in USA." It is a lot of things that are important to me. In a prior post, I got a little exuberant when I said that if Obama had done what Trump did in Detroit, I would be an Obama disciple. In retrospect, I guess I forgot his position on abortion and his abject failure in foreign affairs. It wasn't just that he called ISIS the Junior Varsity, he really believed it. Compare that with the way Trump came in and cleaned them out. Compare also the way Trump has used Turkey to essentially replace us in Syria. Right now, in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic, he is working at achieving a disengagement from Afghanistan. Hopefully, it can be accomplished before the election in case he loses.

In North Korea, after some rather aggressive chess moves, he brought the contest to a stalemate, which is probably about as well as it could have been brought. Compare how prior administrations dealt with North Korea. In Israel, he moved the embassy to Jerusalem and encouraged contacts between the Saudis and UAE with Israel as a hedge against Iranian aggression. That hedge will likely be lost with a President Biden.

I want a President who will represent the interests of the United States, not be so benevolent of foreign interests. I fear that Biden in his zeal for globalization would seek closer engagement with the world and muddle us back into a shooting war in the middle east and a reengagement of an uneven relationship with China. The trade agreement with Canada and Mexico have congressional authority and will stick, but the trade agreement with China that Trump negotiated could be easily reversed by a new administration who is so inclined. And I fear that Biden would be so inclined.

I strongly suspect that you disagree with much of what I have said. That being the case, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I trust that it can remain respectful disagreement.

 

[Greythan]

You showed nothing. even your chart showed a up tick. I've showed you fact after Fact and not in my own words(unlike you).
dude I'm all about facts. you just don't have any in this debate .. Take the L like a man.

In your own words? You linked an article from Fox. You haven't showed one original thought or actual direct research at any point in our discussion. Wake up man.

As for the data I pulled, it shows a clear trend coming out of the financial crisis in '08. There is nothing there to support your statement of Trump having done more to create jobs than any president in the past 60 years. An "uptick"? Maybe, but how do you jump from an "uptick" to the best job creator in the past 60 years? Hyperbole I guess. Sure isn't any evidence or facts you've shown.

Take a loss like a man? That's really funny.

 

[Greythan]

I have a different perspective of the opposition. It isn't just the economy and "made in USA." It is a lot of things that are important to me. In a prior post, I got a little exuberant when I said that if Obama had done what Trump did in Detroit, I would be an Obama disciple. In retrospect, I guess I forgot his position on abortion and his abject failure in foreign affairs. It wasn't just that he called ISIS the Junior Varsity, he really believed it. Compare that with the way Trump came in and cleaned them out. Compare also the way Trump has used Turkey to essentially replace us in Syria. Right now, in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic, he is working at achieving a disengagement from Afghanistan. Hopefully, it can be accomplished before the election in case he loses.

In North Korea, after some rather aggressive chess moves, he brought the contest to a stalemate, which is probably about as well as it could have been brought. Compare how prior administrations dealt with North Korea. In Israel, he moved the embassy to Jerusalem and encouraged contacts between the Saudis and UAE with Israel as a hedge against Iranian aggression. That hedge will likely be lost with a President Biden.

I want a President who will represent the interests of the United States, not be so benevolent of foreign interests. I fear that Biden in his zeal for globalization would seek closer engagement with the world and muddle us back into a shooting war in the middle east and a reengagement of an uneven relationship with China. The trade agreement with Canada and Mexico have congressional authority and will stick, but the trade agreement with China that Trump negotiated could be easily reversed by a new administration who is so inclined. And I fear that Biden would be so inclined.

I strongly suspect that you disagree with much of what I have said. That being the case, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I trust that it can remain respectful disagreement.

Struck by your closing. I haven't felt either of us to be remotely disrespectful to the other in this discussion nor do I see how the two of us could ever devolve into such behavior toward the other. I'm fond of you Cliff and have always found you to be a reflective thinker. That's something I have deep respect for whether I agree with someone or not!

Switching to foreign policy now. Tough one for me as I must admit I've been exceedingly lazy in reading/research on the topic. I have read several viewpoints similar to yours regarding Trump's actions on foreign policy. Namely that he's taken a much more nationalist stance (i.e., America first) and that his supporters view him as very much an anti-war president.

I'll grant the latter on faith as I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise nor have I don't much research (as I mentioned).

The former feels a bit more nuanced. For example, I have never been an open border supporter. I struggle to understand why so many seem so opposed to have immigration rules and requiring foreigners who wish to become US citizens to go through a lawful process. So, I guess, in that regard I might be viewed as a "nationalist"?

However, I do struggle with the idea of putting our interests ahead of global interests in all cases. Maybe I'm not up to speed on a working definition of Trump's philosophy here (I struggle to ever see him articulate philosophies of any depth as it is). Certainly open to hearing your thoughts on the matter.

I certainly am against wars in general. This is something that has grown for me as I've aged, been a parent, etc. Violent loss of life is just horrific especially in state sponsored settings where the underlying motivations are almost always not noble and often just about resources, power and control. Yuck.