The Offensive Line

[OconRecon]

...when you are out of position, out of scheme, and haven't had the single position to concentrate on...

Soooo agree. These are all NFL lineman. Big Erv had all of the disadvantages you mention, along with being a rookie and having no position coach. And not only was he out of scheme, it was an established flawed scheme. If all of these things hampered his abilities by as little as 10%, it would result in plays where he gets beat - and it did.

He's a student of the game and a grade-A individual. One thing is for sure, we'll all pulling for Big Erv. Big time.

I don't know why I like Pasztor so much. Those blocks to spring Crow for TD's last year were just a pure pleasure to watch.



Big #67 involved on all of these:

 

[KJP]

I forgot all about the OL not having a position coach after OL Coach Andy Moeller was fired after his domestic incident in late September 2015. Can't believe the Browns didn't refill that post. That probably didn't help Erving much...

 

[DawgFan]

I forgot all about the OL not having a position coach after OL Coach Andy Moeller was fired after his domestic incident in late September 2015. Can't believe the Browns didn't refill that post. That probably didn't help Erving much...

They did...some guy names Paul Dunn...

A 32-year coaching veteran, Dunn most recently worked for the Houston Texans in 2014. The 55-year-old Philadelphia native spent 24 years as a college coach before spending seven seasons with the Atlanta Falcons from 2007-2013.

Trouble is they continued to try to run the ZBS and the guy had never run it before...and he hadn't had any time with the players to even know what they could and could not do. It was truly a mess.

 

[OconRecon]

Yeah, a better way to put that was lacked a good position coach, as despite his troubles, Moeller was known to be a very good coach.

But right DF, a flawed design is hard to overcome.

 

[OconRecon]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Great job by Joe Thomas and Austin Pasztor moving the 2-technique off his spot and cutting off the scrapping ILB. <a href="https://t.co/xqblUvFXfJ">pic.twitter.com/xqblUvFXfJ</a></p>— All22ChalkTalk (@All22ChalkTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/All22ChalkTalk/status/740570628701495297">June 8, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Shep]

Pasztor played really well. I was happy when we signed him or tagged him or whatever the hell it was we did. Picked up his option, extended his lease, something or the other (!).

Both guys we drafted are physical power blocking guys, too. Same for Alvin Bailey. They weren't going to overpay for a ZB center (god knows nobody else freaking does) or a "good" RT who doesn't fit the scheme.

These smartie pants dudes actually seem to be smart. Which last I checked was preferable.

 

[Enigmatic Evil]

I've felt in my gut all along that we didn't lose that much on the OL but for once I hope the team proves me right

 

[Brownsfan]

I've felt in my gut all along that we didn't lose that much on the OL but for once I hope the team proves me right

I think it is more that we lost a lot--but, it is possible that we had more left then we might have anticipated.

It is true that we prepared well for the inevitable loss at center (to the chagrin of some) with the Irving pick in in 2015, but there is no way that we had adequately prepared for the loss at right tackle. Fortunately, picking up Bailey from Seattle may have saved the day. If Bailey turns out to be at least as good as Schwartz--and that seems likely--we are only one player away from an elite offensive line.

 

[Shep]

Sooner than later, Shon Coleman is gonna be the starting right tackle. And Drago is eventually the starting RG. Maybe not game one and maybe not even this year... but soon-ish.

 

[brownsdownunder]

Coleman would be the likely bet to start because we're so weak at RT but he's also a very raw prospect, particularly in pass blocking, so him watching the blindside from day one might be a question. With that said, it's not like we have any proven answer there anyway so perhaps he'll get a trial by fire.

 

[Shep]

Won't be stunned if it's Greco and Bailey this year. Good for linemen like Coleman and Drango to see some spot duty here and there in year one. But Coleman is really talented and powerful, a targeted fit for the scheme, also won't be stunned if he ends up in a "trial by fire," as you said.

 

[DawgFan]

Don't sleep on Pasztor moving to RT. He did fine when Jax had a power gap scheme...struggled when they moved to ZBS.

 

[Shep]

So much competition. I wouldn't call any position weak. It's just a matter of not knowing the starter at RT yet. But Bailey, Coleman, Drango, Pasztor... that's a lot of guys with a lot of potential, all selected or kept because they fit the system.

Wonder if our long-term LT is on the team already. Several played it in college. I've read many times that Bitonio could develop into an excellent LT.

 

[Greythan]

I'm excited about the potential of this turned over and young roster. However, for every position group not occupied by proven, competent NFL starters, the position group is "weak" until proven otherwise. We do this every year as eternally optimistic fans, but that doesn't change reality.

We are going to need a lot of young guys to show growth and development through the course of this campaign. That's my big wish and certainly overrides the W/L record wishes I may have.

 

[brownsdownunder]

I'd rather keep Pasztor at guard. As Shep said, Coleman was a targeted fit for this scheme. He is the perfect fit for this rushing attack. I would like to see him there, and the sooner we can work him in the better off he's going to be. It ultimately depends if he can be ready to be a day one starter, but I just feel like putting anyone else there is diminishing the fact that Coleman appears to be the future at the RT position based on his extreme talent level. As raw as he is, that was due to his illness, not a lack of development, so that might very well work in his favor because it's not like he's behind because he couldn't improve.

Pasztor certainly was impressive when he got the chance here, so perhaps keeping him at guard would be ideal. Pasztor and Coleman is two really big, powerful motherfuckers on that right side. That's a lot of quality run blocking.

No idea, though. Alvin Bailey doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, it's not like he's proven so good or reliable that our 3rd round rookie, with 1st round potential had it not been for leukemia, stays on the bench. It's the same with Pasztor moving to RT.

For me, RG is that story. Greco and Pasztor at guard have proven reliable and strong, so it feels like we've got answers there.

I'd keep it a straight up competition between Bailey and Coleman, with Coleman being able to prove he's ready being the only question.

I'd also like to see Greco spend some time taking snaps at center. I know Erving is getting rave reviews, and that's great, but his struggles were so great last year that I think it would be irresponsible not to initiate a plan for the possibility that he doesn't turn things around. Greco is a good fit at center, and was Mack's back-up before Erving arrived, and that's on top of him being a veteran so his reps at guard don't need to be as great - which would also allow Drago to earn some additional reps for development.

 

[Shep]

I guess it's semantics. I'd rather say "unsettled." Other teams I kinda follow (Chiefs, Packers, Rams, etc.) don't call a position or position group "weak" just because they're replacing a starter. Packers let their very solid ZB center walk and drafted his replacement in round 2 from OSU. Didn't hear any talk about the position being "weak" just because there was turnover.

Turnover is just part of the game. When the Browns lost WRs in various ways but did nothing to replace them, that became a problem. But on the OL, it feels like the team was aggressive without getting too lavish. We have an opening (the Browns drafted Erving to start at center in 2016) but a lot of candidates to fill it.

 

[KJP]

I liked what Pasztor did for the run game toward the end of last year after Erving was benched. Crowell, who has a nasty habit of running into the back of OL, actually was able to find some holes to run through with Pasztor in there at guard.

I'd also like to see Greco spend some time taking snaps at center. I know Erving is getting rave reviews, and that's great, but his struggles were so great last year that I think it would be irresponsible not to initiate a plan for the possibility that he doesn't turn things around. Greco is a good fit at center, and was Mack's back-up before Erving arrived, and that's on top of him being a veteran so his reps at guard don't need to be as great - which would also allow Drago to earn some additional reps for development.

I seem to recall the Browns running game going into the toilet after Alex Mack broke his leg midway through the 2014 season and Greco filled in at center. Cause and effect?

 

[DawgFan]

KJP...I agree, but again that was ZBS...we are moving to Power Gap. I think Greco is far better suited for that scheme...as is Pasztor and Irving. Way too much weight being placed on production out of the ZBS being coached by an OL Coach that wasn't here in the pre-season, and led by an OC that had never run it before.

 

[brownsdownunder]

I seem to recall the Browns running game going into the toilet after Alex Mack broke his leg midway through the 2014 season and Greco filled in at center. Cause and effect?

The running game has never been great, but never been as bad as it seems. A comparison from last season. Browns vs the best rushing attack in the NFL, Adrian Peterson's Vikings.

Adrian Peterson - 327 attempts for 1,485 yards at 4.5 per carry.
Crow and Duke - 289 attempts for 1,085 yards at 3.7 per carry.

If you extrapolate for Peterson's additional carries, Crow and Duke would have 1,209 yards on the same amount of carries. So 276 yards more. Is that because AP and the Vikings are elite, or because the Browns suck? Personally, I think it's because the Browns lose.

Adrian Peterson, last season, half by half and quarter by quarter.

First half - 3.6 YPC
Second half - 5.7 YPC

Q1 - 3.8 YPC
Q2 - 3.2 YPC
Q3 - 4.9 YPC
Q4 - 6.9 YPC

As we see, Adrian Peterson was dominant in the second half and the fourth quarter where his yards per carry spiked significantly. The second half account for 827 of his yards on only 144 carries.

I honestly don't think the Browns have sucked on the ground for the past two seasons, we just haven't been able to run the ball in the second half because we're desperately trying to pass our way back into the game. Of course, this isn't specific to the Greco at C era, but that was no different than what is still happening.

I think the Browns have put way too much stock into trying to fix the running game - Trent Richardson, Terrance West and even Duke Johnson are a lot of draft picks for Crow to ultimately be our guy. Once we fix the team, I think this rushing attack is going to be straight fire.

Long story short, I don't think it's overly any specific area that is causing the rushing offense to stutter, but rather the totality of issues that losing football forces on a rushing offense that creates issues in generating a successful ground attack.

Also worth noting on top of those rushing numbers - Adrian Peterson added 222 yards through the air, but Crow and Duke added a thunderous 716 yards in the air. Accounting for that actually offsets the ground difference and makes both backfields, in terms of touches and yardage, quite similar in their productions.

Adrian Peterson - 357 total touches for 1,707 total yards.
Crow and Duke - 369 total touches for 1,801 total yards.

Not bad, all things considering.

 

[Brownsfan]

I'd rather keep Pasztor at guard. As Shep said, Coleman was a targeted fit for this scheme. He is the perfect fit for this rushing attack. I would like to see him there, and the sooner we can work him in the better off he's going to be. It ultimately depends if he can be ready to be a day one starter, but I just feel like putting anyone else there is diminishing the fact that Coleman appears to be the future at the RT position based on his extreme talent level. As raw as he is, that was due to his illness, not a lack of development, so that might very well work in his favor because it's not like he's behind because he couldn't improve.

Pasztor certainly was impressive when he got the chance here, so perhaps keeping him at guard would be ideal. Pasztor and Coleman is two really big, powerful motherfuckers on that right side. That's a lot of quality run blocking.

No idea, though. Alvin Bailey doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, it's not like he's proven so good or reliable that our 3rd round rookie, with 1st round potential had it not been for leukemia, stays on the bench. It's the same with Pasztor moving to RT.

For me, RG is that story. Greco and Pasztor at guard have proven reliable and strong, so it feels like we've got answers there.

I'd keep it a straight up competition between Bailey and Coleman, with Coleman being able to prove he's ready being the only question.

I'd also like to see Greco spend some time taking snaps at center. I know Erving is getting rave reviews, and that's great, but his struggles were so great last year that I think it would be irresponsible not to initiate a plan for the possibility that he doesn't turn things around. Greco is a good fit at center, and was Mack's back-up before Erving arrived, and that's on top of him being a veteran so his reps at guard don't need to be as great - which would also allow Drago to earn some additional reps for development.

First, it is hardly a straight up competition between Bailey and Coleman if the only question is Coleman being ready.

Second, I am not sure I understand the Greco love at center. Greco is a great guy, but he is 31 and has never been much more than adequate. This may be his last year in the league. Erving is the future. The last thing I would want is to take reps from Erving. Erving needs all the reps he can get. He needs them a heck of a lot more than a vet like Greco.