jaydog
Football God
I'll go out on a limb and say without a doubt he'll be an immediate upgrade over Scam.
The Offensive Line
- Thread starter OconRecon
- Start date
jaydog
Football God
That's harsh man. I don't think he's been horrible, but more serviceable and in fact he's had a coupe of good games. FTR I think he's a great 6th man to play most positions, but I also think he's played solid in the position he's been tasked with. He's a way better guard though.
Get a load of him chasing down Jason Pierre Paul against the Giants and you see his abysmal athleticism. Luckily it's not as necessary for an Olineman to be a gifted athlete as much as it is to be strong and able to anchor to an opponent.
brownsdownunder
Fuck Cancer! R.I.P Sean Webb
Really hoping he pulls it all together. Undeniably talented kid. At first he just seemed cursed, taking injury after injury at all the wrong moments. Might have weighed him down a little, I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to constantly be fighting health. He sounds genuinely happy to have taken some time off and got healthy and ready to go.
It can't be understated how big the next few games are for him, and he could play his way into a short contract to compete with Drango and Greco.
brownsdownunder
Fuck Cancer! R.I.P Sean Webb
Fucking tragic. Never expected it to be that bad. That might spell the end of Mr. Greco. I mean, he won't be returning until he's closer to 33 and we'll have to do something in that mean time.
Shep
Well-known member
I think the team was likely moving that way already with guys like Drango and Pasztor both being better guards than tackles. Shon Coleman was coming off knee surgery and the team knew he might "redshirt" (just read that) for the most part. Bitonio is expected just in time for actual training camp, will be nursed along carefully. Reiter returns.
Browns are pretty obliged to bring in a couple guys at a pretty high level, probably one in round 2 and one in free agency.
Betting Thomas, Bitonio, and either Drango or Pasztor are starting. New center and RT (could be Coleman). Team likes the young'ins, will let them develop.
Browns are pretty obliged to bring in a couple guys at a pretty high level, probably one in round 2 and one in free agency.
Betting Thomas, Bitonio, and either Drango or Pasztor are starting. New center and RT (could be Coleman). Team likes the young'ins, will let them develop.
OP
OP
OconRecon
If you're juiceless, you're useless
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cam Erving driven back two yards behind LOS. Nothing new here.</p>— Brent Sobleski (@brentsobleski) <a href="https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/808015635359924224">December 11, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cam Erving ladies and gentlemen. If he looks to block the first threat to cross his face (as he is coached to do) this play has a chance. <a href="https://t.co/hdEBWE6HIy">pic.twitter.com/hdEBWE6HIy</a></p>— Orange and Brown Rpt (@TheOBR) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheOBR/status/808020748291964928">December 11, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cam Erving ladies and gentlemen. If he looks to block the first threat to cross his face (as he is coached to do) this play has a chance. <a href="https://t.co/hdEBWE6HIy">pic.twitter.com/hdEBWE6HIy</a></p>— Orange and Brown Rpt (@TheOBR) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheOBR/status/808020748291964928">December 11, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Last edited:
OP
OP
OconRecon
If you're juiceless, you're useless
Thomas - 3rd pick overall, probowler
Bitonio - 35th pick overall, all rookie team
Mack - 21st pick overall, probowler
Greco - 65th pick overall, reliable free agent guard, veteran
Schwartz - 37th pick overall, best RT available in free agency
That's two first rounders, to high second rounders, and well respected high 3rd rounder. It's how you're supposed to build an O line if you care about such things.
And it resulted in a losing record, coaches getting fired, etc etc.
Why? WE NEED A QB.
I know I'm mostly preaching to the choir here, but watching RGIII look pretty bad in today's first half, it's more and more and more obvious, we need a QB more than anything else in 2017.
Drafting and signing better O lineman doesn't matter when your QB can't execute.
We need to address Cam Erving. Wow, the guy just doesn't have the brain for it. No vision. But neck and neck is the QB position.
Pasztor appears to be having another decent game, fwiw.
Bitonio - 35th pick overall, all rookie team
Mack - 21st pick overall, probowler
Greco - 65th pick overall, reliable free agent guard, veteran
Schwartz - 37th pick overall, best RT available in free agency
That's two first rounders, to high second rounders, and well respected high 3rd rounder. It's how you're supposed to build an O line if you care about such things.
And it resulted in a losing record, coaches getting fired, etc etc.
Why? WE NEED A QB.
I know I'm mostly preaching to the choir here, but watching RGIII look pretty bad in today's first half, it's more and more and more obvious, we need a QB more than anything else in 2017.
Drafting and signing better O lineman doesn't matter when your QB can't execute.
We need to address Cam Erving. Wow, the guy just doesn't have the brain for it. No vision. But neck and neck is the QB position.
Pasztor appears to be having another decent game, fwiw.
Last edited:
OP
OP
OconRecon
If you're juiceless, you're useless
Austin Pasztor's season PFF grade* just surpassed Mitchell Schwartz's.
26 Demar Dotson TB 69 79.9 76.7 82.4 879 542 337 Active
27 Austin Pasztor CLV 67 77.7 80.0 70.4 813 564 249 Active
28 Ja'Wuan James MIA 70 77.5 70.3 82.3 759 454 305 Active
29 Jake Matthews ATL 70 77.3 82.7 47.5 794 495 299 Active
30 Mitchell Schwartz KC 71 76.8 80.8 63.0 827 522 305 Active
31 Rob Havenstein LA 79 75.8 77.9 68.1 799 503 296 Active
*out of 75 grade eligible OT's
Jonathon Cooper's very limited sample size today at guard did really well. Has earned another start, one would think.
Drango had an admirable game.
JT elite as usual.
Cam remains in the basement. Although today's individual game grade is not available to peons like me (only to media), his season grade stayed the same, indicating he didn't do enough to even nudge his number.
26 Demar Dotson TB 69 79.9 76.7 82.4 879 542 337 Active
27 Austin Pasztor CLV 67 77.7 80.0 70.4 813 564 249 Active
28 Ja'Wuan James MIA 70 77.5 70.3 82.3 759 454 305 Active
29 Jake Matthews ATL 70 77.3 82.7 47.5 794 495 299 Active
30 Mitchell Schwartz KC 71 76.8 80.8 63.0 827 522 305 Active
31 Rob Havenstein LA 79 75.8 77.9 68.1 799 503 296 Active
*out of 75 grade eligible OT's
Jonathon Cooper's very limited sample size today at guard did really well. Has earned another start, one would think.
Drango had an admirable game.
JT elite as usual.
Cam remains in the basement. Although today's individual game grade is not available to peons like me (only to media), his season grade stayed the same, indicating he didn't do enough to even nudge his number.
Last edited:
OP
OP
OconRecon
If you're juiceless, you're useless
One more set of O line numbers, ranking the current offensive tackles, in team pairs (LT & RT), around the league, it goes:
1. Tennessee (6th & 7th)
2. Green Bay (3rd &10th)
3. Philly (8th & 11th)
4. Washington (1st & 21st)
5. New England (14th & 16th)
6. Browns (4th & 27th)
1. Tennessee (6th & 7th)
2. Green Bay (3rd &10th)
3. Philly (8th & 11th)
4. Washington (1st & 21st)
5. New England (14th & 16th)
6. Browns (4th & 27th)
OP
OP
OconRecon
If you're juiceless, you're useless
Ugh, some saying this morning Cam Erving had a good game. Even "best game as a Brown".
Sure, no penalties and no snaps to the endzone.
I still saw him putting blinders on, busily shuffling right when a double team wasn't needed, meanwhile the stunt flew behind him from the left.
The worry is his starting point is so low that mediocre play will be viewed as "a young player, still learning, and improving".
Still bet we don't draft a center.
Guess I'm okay with that, as long as we get a QB for the offense and a QB (safety) for the defense, but would still like a Saturday center drafted at minimum.
Walter Football etc keep having us draft an O lineman (tackle) on day 1 or 2. They're behind:
All the talk on The Fan this morning is about the quarterback play. The QB play improves, Crow has an even better day, we score some points, and the D isn't on the field all the time. Everything would get better.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Now I'm interested to see how Jonathan Cooper plays rest of the year after grading among league's best guards in 1st start since 11/15/15.</p>— Brent Sobleski (@brentsobleski) <a href="https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/808287693478232064">December 12, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Sure, no penalties and no snaps to the endzone.
I still saw him putting blinders on, busily shuffling right when a double team wasn't needed, meanwhile the stunt flew behind him from the left.
The worry is his starting point is so low that mediocre play will be viewed as "a young player, still learning, and improving".
Still bet we don't draft a center.
Guess I'm okay with that, as long as we get a QB for the offense and a QB (safety) for the defense, but would still like a Saturday center drafted at minimum.
Walter Football etc keep having us draft an O lineman (tackle) on day 1 or 2. They're behind:
- Tackles - JT still elite, Pasztor is improving, S. Coleman still in the wings.
- Guards - Bitonio is likely elite too. Grecco had his best year. And hey, Cooper flashed yesterday. Drango is at least a keeper.
- Center - THAT's the big question. Guess we'll watch Cam these last 3 games, he'll play likely play average, which is a vast improvement, and a replacement center will be de-prioritized.
All the talk on The Fan this morning is about the quarterback play. The QB play improves, Crow has an even better day, we score some points, and the D isn't on the field all the time. Everything would get better.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Now I'm interested to see how Jonathan Cooper plays rest of the year after grading among league's best guards in 1st start since 11/15/15.</p>— Brent Sobleski (@brentsobleski) <a href="https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/808287693478232064">December 12, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Last edited:
OP
OP
OconRecon
If you're juiceless, you're useless
Yeah, Pasztor and Cooper are going both going to do that. But, young enough to warrant a mild payday. They're both likely sub 5 mil/yr guys.
Sign them up for 3 year contracts, which takes you to the end of Drango and S. Coleman's rookie deals, assuming they keep playing well in these last 3 games.
Sign them up for 3 year contracts, which takes you to the end of Drango and S. Coleman's rookie deals, assuming they keep playing well in these last 3 games.
Greythan
Yin & Yang
Ocon, I am one of those who saw yesterday as Cam's best day as a pro.
He did miss one pass rush stunt that resulted in a sack, but to be honest its hard to know what the line call was and if it was his responsibility.
Otherwise, RGIII had more than ample protection most of the day but since he a) has no clue where to go with the football and b) when he does decide he's inaccurate as hell... our passing game looked like shit yesterday. Pin that game up as poster child one for what a good QB means to an NFL franchise.
In the run game Cam was a beast most of the day. On more than one of our long runs between the tackles, Cam was responsible for 2 blocks including fucking up Burfict on more than one occasion. Dude really was a wrecking ball in space making second level blocks.
You guys all know how brutal I've been on him, but I tip my cap for the massive improvement yesterday. Its not lost on me how fucking awesome it would be for this guy to go "click" in his head and turn into a solid to good OL for us.
He did miss one pass rush stunt that resulted in a sack, but to be honest its hard to know what the line call was and if it was his responsibility.
Otherwise, RGIII had more than ample protection most of the day but since he a) has no clue where to go with the football and b) when he does decide he's inaccurate as hell... our passing game looked like shit yesterday. Pin that game up as poster child one for what a good QB means to an NFL franchise.
In the run game Cam was a beast most of the day. On more than one of our long runs between the tackles, Cam was responsible for 2 blocks including fucking up Burfict on more than one occasion. Dude really was a wrecking ball in space making second level blocks.
You guys all know how brutal I've been on him, but I tip my cap for the massive improvement yesterday. Its not lost on me how fucking awesome it would be for this guy to go "click" in his head and turn into a solid to good OL for us.
OP
OP
OconRecon
If you're juiceless, you're useless
You, Hue, the Giants, Sobo, and Hiram are slowly moving to the Cam camp. 
It's a start. I'd rather it click with Cam vs starting over with another center.
DBN has an article giving D's and F's to every facet of the Browns performance. Really disappointing brain-dead take is to say we lost another, so every player be damned.
That's just not how it works.
Joe Thomas can't score touchdowns, but he did turn in a near pressureless and sack-less performance.
It's a start. I'd rather it click with Cam vs starting over with another center.
DBN has an article giving D's and F's to every facet of the Browns performance. Really disappointing brain-dead take is to say we lost another, so every player be damned.
That's just not how it works.
Joe Thomas can't score touchdowns, but he did turn in a near pressureless and sack-less performance.
Last edited:
Shep
Well-known member
Cam got downfield for a great block. If he's improving, let's enjoy it. Line was very good in both pass protection and line blocking yesterday. Our QB play was vomitous. Just disgusting.
My guess is Cam will compete with Reiter, who (like Jonathan Cooper) played an excellent game in his only start. Reiter was a guy the Redskins hated to lose, saw a potential starter down the road. Pasztor in absolutely growing and improving. Drango seems to be settling in to "quality starter," which is good. With all these guys and Coleman, the cupboard is pretty full of potential long-term starters.
The upside to losing Bitonio and Reiter is player development. Get those two back along with what we have... and draft somebody reasonably high, no later than top of round 3. Possibly a young free agent, too. That's a lot of people competing to play with Thomas and Bitonio. I can't imagine that Drango and Pasztor aren't gonna start somewhere but we'll see.
Line isn't feeling like the issue. So what is? Gotta get it right at QB, we 100% need a starting OLB/edge opposite Collins (if we can keep him). For me, QB and pass rusher are clearly the first round picks and the two straightest lines to big improvement. I'm hearing Joe Haden is probably on the block and I'm cool with that if we can get a 2nd or 3rd. We need help at FS, will need another corner, and probably need to flip Demario Davis.
But QB and pass rusher are where we want to put the big money. Whether it's Myles Garrett and Jimmy Garoppolo or Mitch Trubisky and a different EDGE.
My guess is Cam will compete with Reiter, who (like Jonathan Cooper) played an excellent game in his only start. Reiter was a guy the Redskins hated to lose, saw a potential starter down the road. Pasztor in absolutely growing and improving. Drango seems to be settling in to "quality starter," which is good. With all these guys and Coleman, the cupboard is pretty full of potential long-term starters.
The upside to losing Bitonio and Reiter is player development. Get those two back along with what we have... and draft somebody reasonably high, no later than top of round 3. Possibly a young free agent, too. That's a lot of people competing to play with Thomas and Bitonio. I can't imagine that Drango and Pasztor aren't gonna start somewhere but we'll see.
Line isn't feeling like the issue. So what is? Gotta get it right at QB, we 100% need a starting OLB/edge opposite Collins (if we can keep him). For me, QB and pass rusher are clearly the first round picks and the two straightest lines to big improvement. I'm hearing Joe Haden is probably on the block and I'm cool with that if we can get a 2nd or 3rd. We need help at FS, will need another corner, and probably need to flip Demario Davis.
But QB and pass rusher are where we want to put the big money. Whether it's Myles Garrett and Jimmy Garoppolo or Mitch Trubisky and a different EDGE.
Martin Eden
Well-known member
I miss those long, time-eating drives Kessler was making.
OP
OP
OconRecon
If you're juiceless, you're useless
Listening to CBD. Said when the final grades came in, Cooper was the highest graded player on the team. He received big credit for popping Crow loose and pass blocking well.
Cam ended up being the worst graded lineman, but I'm with you all. Would be happy for him to "get it".