The Offensive Line | Page 22 |

The Offensive Line

I do not see the Browns drafting or signing a guard at a 2020 starter level. Not with Bitonio, Teller, Kush, and McCray. Agree that nothing's settled yet, but I think there's a O% chance they'll be flipping three spots all at once or starting more than one rookie.

The line's problems are a bit of an invention, frankly. We're dead center average in pass protection and one of the best running the football. It's pretty good at worst because facts matter. We've faced SEVERAL of the best pass-rush defenses and done just fine. We handled it.

And again: When the whole line is playing, it just has not been an issue. It wasn't an issue against the Steelers, Bills, Patriots, or Broncos... and that's as tough as it's gonna get.

I'm probably in the minority here but I'd be looking at RT as the offseason's big upgrade but I would not assume any other changes. I personally would keep Robinson because he's a median starting LT now, a pretty good one... and that's way harder to find than people think. He doesn't allow a lot of sacks or hits and that's a LT's main job, main measuring stick.

But I don't get the sense that's how it'll go... which tees up a big challenge, replacing two starting OTs at the same time. They will not add a guard position to that unless it's a screaming need... and I do not think it will be. Teller is already settling in.

I have to think Bulaga or Williams are part of the equation. Not gonna be starting multiple rookies on the OL in a championship window with a franchise QB at risk. No chance. Maybe one but it won't be at left tackle, I bet. Won't draft high enough.

Williams could absolutely happen as a bridge and then we'd need a RT. Could be Vaitai or a 1st round pick (that we didn't trade for Williams, gotta get him for a 2nd).
 
Shep said:
The line's problems are a bit of an invention
Click to expand...

I just posted that pic from nfl.com. they invented it?
Its their opinion we need help at IOL
and not just them but almost every draft site on earth lists it as a need
they are wrong?
and you are right?
after the bills goal line stands its an invention?

"you cant start 2 rookie OL"
who told you that? it happens all the time
our line is below average.the whole fu&king world is well aware of it
we were above average then we traded zietler

its not the 25 yard run off of 2nd and 10 that measures a line
its the 3rd and 1.its the 4th and short with goal to go.
FK continually shies away from those challenges and passes the ball
why?
because he knows what you consistently deny
our line is unreliable at best as it stands today

again,teller was a last resort september signing
he is not and was never intended to be the permanent answer at RG
 
I'm simply stating that the stats (facts) do not back up the notion that the Browns' line is bad. They just don't, Beast. We're middle of the pack in pass protection and #3 in YPC, very good at run-blocking. And those positions were dragged down when we were dinged or suspended.

Pass blocking against Denver, New England, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo was excellent, and they're all very good at rattling the pocket. Right now, we absolutely do not have an OL problem.

You can't be pretty good and really bad at the same time... and they just haven't been really bad by any statistical measure. Everything else is gum-flappin'.

I've accepted that Robinson is probably gone, and he really isn't my secret son or anything. But we should all accept that LT play really can't improve so much on him that we win more games. Robinson isn't losing us games so the hope is that neither will the next guy and it'll be a wash.

The same isn't true at RT. Hubbard is bad.
 
its the 3rd/4th and shorts that show up your IOL
I agree the OT's have been ok.robinson>hubbard
Its teller that is the weak link
but it only really shows when we run short yards in the A gaps
it REALLY shows
teller sux,he is bringing this whole line down
and every draft site in the world is saying so with team needs
cause when it says IOL they aint talking about tretter or J-bit
so,what do you think they are talking about?

our team,both sides is strong
but every team has weak spots
ours is o-line and safety
so draftniks focus on that
Its not to say our line is not good
just it is a weak spot on a strong team than can and should be upgraded
1 OT spot and 1 IOL spot are the obvious needs
you can PFF the shit out of it
it doesn't change the above^^
 
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I think our OL can get better. I'm only saying one thing: It is not bad. We are not getting our QB beat up and we are not struggling to run the ball.

To have a "bad line," at least one of those two things needs to be happening.

But anything they wanna do to get better, I'm always down. I just wouldn't expect it to make a huge difference to the bottom line. We were losing games because we were on a historic penalty pace, faced the hardest schedule in the entire NFL, and definitely weren't in sync on offense. Oh, and among the league leaders in injury games lost for those first six games.

Browns fans always point to the line, did it to excuse Frye and Freckles. Frye gets pulled for DA, poof: Line isn't bad anymore.

Baker was holding the ball, now he's not. Kush is on the bench. The line is not losing games for us.
 
They are not a "dominating line." Or a great one. They're "pretty good."

I think having the starting IOL in place the rest of this year, getting that timing down, will pay off now and then. Hubbard will be upgraded with the best RT we can get at 24 or wherever, and there will be very good ones. That guy could develop into a future LT.

I'll hold on Robinson. If the team keeps winning, Chubb has 1,500, and Baker continues not getting hit? Well, you either pay Robinson or you pay someone else because the 24th pick will not be our starting LT. I bet.

So that says Mr. Trent Williams for me.
 
Beast, I'll add this from the pay site, sans any direct lift: Team loves Forbes but there's no talk of any line shuffling from here on...

Because the line is playing very well at this point.

BTW, love hearing Bitonio, Mayfield, and others talk about knowing it's the offense's turn to carry more than their own weight. We're whole on that side of the ball... and the Dolphins might be the very worst defense in the NFL.
 
nickers said:
I don't think our #15 draft pick will hold. It'll end up 25th or wherever a 5 or 6-seed picks. That's not where day one starting LTs come from. That's usually top 10, others need a little time (like a Bakhtiari or, hopefully, Drew Forbes).
Click to expand...

drew forbes was a MID 6th round pick and cannot be compared to a 1st round pick
even late 1st round
we dont need to draft another #73 just someone better than we have
which this year should not be difficult
If we have to burn a high pick to FA on an o-line starter? fine

Its funny shep,we have already had this talk last year when we thought
we would be using our high picks for o-line help
remember scharping,risner,little,ford and mcgary?
(BTW mcgary a late 1st OT is starting and impressing)
then we thought we would also draft some later players as developmental
projects going forward
well we did the latter in forbes but drafting a starter from the 6th?
we all know,its a long shot
point is it was no secret our o-line needed help

so the o-line in the draft was an after thought as it was in FA
I feel like we went with BPA in FA and the draft
OBJ? wow great
greedy at 46? wow awesome
redwine another BPA we needed a SS not a FS
this was a good draft but much has it really added to the OFF?

our o-line is not the worst in the NFL
but If we want this OFF to really cook?
we need it to be one of the best
yes we need to trade for or use multiple high picks this
year on the o-line at OT and G
even If it is on a late 1st round OT who can play both sides
we need to improve
 
First of all, Bakhtiari is a 4th round pick while Corbett was 33rd overall... so you're saying that means Corbett is better, Beast? And therefore Corbett must be way better than Forbes or Teller as well?

And you're clear on that in ways Dorsey and Campen are not?

Here's what I'm saying: We should draft an OT with our very first pick, guessing it for 25th. We'll get a plug-and-play RT there, or at least we have a better shot at that than a plug-and-play LT. Plus that guy can be the LT of the future.

I'm saying I'd also draft another OL in R4 or R5, something teams like the Packers and Patriots have been doing forever, always feeding the pipeline with guys who fit your profile and won't be expected to start immediately.

Like Forbes, and they seem to feel really good about that one, right? So do it again but two rounds higher. Start Robinson or Williams, Bitonio, Tretter, Teller, and 1st round pick. Or possibly Bulaga.

I don't see a ton of better options, honestly. I think it's Robinson or Williams at LT and a 1st round pick, Bulaga, or Forbes at RT.

And we'll have made a commitment to our OL that's bigger than most contenders. Robinson is a first, Bitonio almost a first, Tretter is a big f/a signing (and Pro Bowler), Tretter cost two draft picks and is playing quite well (won't be sitting), and then a first-round RT or Bulaga, who was a first rounder.
 
Update:

- Browns are now 14th in fewest sacks allowed.
- Browns are 5th in YPC at 4.9... but everybody in front of us except Carolina is benefiting from a running QB amping that up.

Again: You either have a bad line or you don't... and we don't. I would make one change to the starting lineup, at RT.
 
Wyatt Teller? No, he stepped in for the weak spot dude, remember? Line's been great ever since and Mary Kay pointed that out. Team (allegedly) feels the same, at the very least hopeful that he continues to look like the long-term starter.

I'd say the odds that we end up listing RG as an available opening are at about 25% now but going down, not up. When your line is functioning like ours, you don't look to flip multiple positions and RT seems like the target this time.

We will not be fielding two rookies on the right side and we will not be replacing the guy that cost us a 5th and a 6th unless his presence makes the line bad. His presence has made the line better... and if you wanna isolate on him? He's very good.
 
well we agree the 1st pick should be an OT
(just like last year)

I disagree about #77 but I could be wrong
teller could work out,I hope he does
so why is every draft board in existence saying we need help at IOL?
Shep said:
Line's been great ever since
Click to expand...
the line's great? after that bills GL stand? the lines great?
well,I guess time will teller?
 
The GL stand against the Bills wasn't flattering but Nick Chubb rushed 116 yards at 5.8 YPA in that game. If we're going to fault the OL for the stand, credit where credit is due elsewhere.

Important to remember Teller is in his first few starts for not only us but as an NFL starter. Since he was inserted in to the line-up, our running game has continued to thrive (10th total, 5th YPC, not boosted by a mobile QB like BAL, HOU, DAL, ARI, etc). Meanwhile, Baker's passing game is right back on track - Baker's % is now in the mid-60 range, YPA has jumped back up, 8 TDs to 1 INT, passer rating jumped in to the 100 range, taking way fewer sacks.

I understand scepticism. You can't have an OL too dominant, so it should all be under the microscope. I think our issue last season was we felt the OL was good enough and didn't push the boundaries of improvement.

But thus far, all indications for Teller are incredibly promising. Kid has been really good. Needs to finish the year strong, but I'd be stunned if the team was down on him.
 
Teller has been really good... on most plays. He's still figuring some stuff out but the athleticism and raw strength makes his upside limitless. Getting him integrated this season is great, and we're the line is getting better, not worse, as we do it.

Truth is, yeah, the line has been pretty damn good since that SF game, which was by far its worst. We haven't seen a QB under constant heat and we haven't struggled in the run game. A lot of what the media and draftnicks are writing is locked in early and only vaguely so I wouldn't use them as a news source, Beast.

Their simplistic overview of the Browns is underachieving, undisciplined, and line sucks. Latter was never really true but it's been about 4 games since any of them are true. We've pulled our shit together for the most part and had to do so against some of the league's best defenses.

I trust Campen. If he deeply believes we need two new tackles, go for it. But I'm watching to see who the candidates would be to slide in at left tackle, protecting the blindside for the next five years in a playoff window. Someone as good or better than Robinson. Looking at the f/a list, Robinson was on the top 5, like 3rd or 4th, and nobody in front of him was actually gonna be available (or they played RT, like Bulaga).

As far as available left tackles, Robinson was actually #1. So if it ain't him, kinda has to be Trent Williams. I'm being reductive, maybe it's a mid-range free agent backup, but we've had mixed results with the up-and-comer (Teller good, Hubbard less good).
 
DawgFan brought up D.J. Humphries. Seems like he's been considered a bust but is playing better this year. Kind of a lower drafted Greg Robinson, really... so not entirely un-intriguing.

https://factoryofsadness.co/2019/10/10/cleveland-browns-5-trades-save-2019-season/2/

UPDATE: Humphries says he wants to retire a Cardinal and they're in active negotiations about an extension. Seems unlikely that he'll hit the market.

Like I said, everybody on the f/a LT list was unlikely or a RT. I'm pretty sure the best true LT slated to be free is Greg Robinson.

UPDATE AGAIN: Asking my fave experts. I dug around the f/a preview sites and couldn't come up with anything. Is Daryl Williams healthy? Is George Fant any good?
 
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- Teller was dreadful and that's really bad news.
- Hubbard and the backup guard we play at LT were beyond horrible. Robinson was hugely missed.
- We have so much shit to sort through, including why WRs still aren't on the same page with Baker... but the OL is job #1.
 
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